I don’t… Hahaha this is one of the things I most often speak to my counsellor about though and I’m working hard on it.
My issue is more around productivity (achievements), so what I work on is doing things for the sake of doing them, not for the final product, i.e. doing art for the process or even playing a game just to play and not for literal achievements. Learning to just enjoy things for the process or just doing ‘nothing’. They suggested I could just come home and sit and watch my cats and… Just do nothing. I’m still working on that one.
We haven’t gotten that far into external validation, but I think learning to have compassion/love for yourself helps with that.
They suggested I could just come home and sit and watch my cats and… Just do nothing. I’m still working on that one.
That sounds so difficult for me. Sigh . Just do nothing… A voice in my head keeps telling me “You’ve wasted so much to me! Others would have finished so much work in this time”.
I know that I should be more kind to myself. I am more kind to myself than I used to be. We only get one life and I can’t hate myself in it - Others wouldn’t hate themselves, they would be really good at loving themselves! Lol
I feel you 100%, I have the same voice. If you want to watch something truly depressing but extremely relatable, the episode called “stupid piece of shit” from bojack horseman covers the topic in a much more real way than any cartoon has the right to do so.
We can get through it though, the voice is a liar.
I think you could try to find a different, new source of self worth to replace it with. It is probably hard to remove something from your concept of ‘self-worth’ if there isn’t anything to replace it with. Adding things to the source also gives you something to focus on/say when you’re next feeling bad about (the lack of) external reward/validation. There are many options, I’ll try to list a few I’ve heard. Perhaps some sound better/easier/more true than others:
- People are intrinsically worthwhile and valuable. (Some religions assert this directly.)
- The things you will do in the future. (Seems like toddlers have a lot of self-worth sometimes. I like to imagine this is the source.)
- The things you want to do.
- Being able to do things that make you happy. (Can be hedonism.)
- The things you will never do. (Negative utilitarian, in some sense. You have worth for not being harmful.)
- Your relationships with others. (Pets count!)
- The validation and achievements that your communities/tribes have earned.
- The virtues you have developed. (Stoic.)
- The difficult things you have survived.
- You do things in a way that would, statistically, result in achievements and validation. You should value yourself for the expected value, rather than the specifics of today.
I want to go to sleep excited for the next day. I used to be motivated by my goals. But goals are hard to achieve and I haven’t felt happy in the past after reaching some of my goals.
I want to enjoy being me without having to work for it.
Thanks for your reply.
How you judge others is how you judge yourself. Practice being kind in your judgment of others, and you will find it becomes natural to be kind in how you judge yourself.
What you value, praise, attend to in others’ lives is what you value, praise, and eventually attend to in your own life. Be curious about others lives, don’t assume they have it figured out. This will lead to natural curiosity of your own life, and you will find there are many kinds of achievement and each leads to a way to value yourself. (Achievement is not one-dimensional–money & career is only one kind of achievement).
I have to disagree a bit with the efficacy of this method.
I myself have been told that I’m very understanding for people who try and learn something new, or do something I already know how to. However when the roles are switched, I can’t help but to hold myself to a higher standard than I hold others, and I end up pissing on myself for having such a hard time doing something others seem to have such an easy time with. Personal example is learning a language: I’m such a slow learner, still being A1 after three years, while I have a friend who got to B1 in 9 months. And I keep thinking things like “why do I struggle so much retaining this simple information? I must be putting a weak effort into this…”, while my friends are like “Keep going! You’re doing great!”. I can’t help but consider it mocking, like “aw, it’s adorable that you try so hard, and are still a noob!”, even though that is something neither of us actually think.
It works well as a form of motivation though, albeit slightly toxic.
I try to compare myself with my previous self, but that I find near-impossible, for some reason.
It works well as a form of motivation though, albeit slightly toxic.
Yeah, but it only works so much. Then it’s just a voice that’s bullying you.
I mean the need becomes immediately necessary if you’ve ever accomplished anything.
Holy shit I sound like an asshole.
Okay, what I mean is, everyone you look up to is just as empty as you. Well, maybe. Sort of.
The only people who feel sated by an achievement end up as has-beens. That never were. And in this esoteric sense, even those that “are”, arent.
All that mumbo jumbo, I mean, no one is their achievements. And if they are, they’re hollow.
Okay, so I’m coming off anesthesia and sounding like a guy at burning man. But I’m serious. The bottom line is this
Your self worth is defined by the process. Not the outcome. And if the process is at a halt due to an outcome, just trust the process. Try again.
The trying again will give you self worth. Not the outcome.
I know this.
I was wondering how to effectively separate my self-worth from the “Achievements”.
I want it to be the process, but I can’t seem to make it the process.
I don’t mean this condescendingly, so apologies if it hits that way, but: Have you ever worked hard for something and accomplished what you worked hard towards?
If so, what felt better, “winning” or the process of elevating yourself?
For example when I was 15 my team won a baseball championship. Tbh the final games were well fought. We swept the post season. I reflect very positively on that post season. I don’t reflect much on the season itself. But more than the win, I reflect on being on a losing team for all of little league. I went from worst in the league to best in the league. Nothing to show for it (little league). On to the bigger league. Back to being worst in the league. Slowly my team grew, year 3 we dominated. I reflect on 5 years of failure, hours spent in batting cages, being the best (in little league) and still failing, not that final season, sure that final post season a bit, but not that final strikeout that clinched the league.
(Also to clarify this “best in little league” shit… My dad kept stats and we still talk about it. I batted .928, slugging over 2000%, won the home run derby, hit the only home run in the all star game where I went 2 for 2 and struck out all 6 batters I faced… I belonged in our little leagues major division and I was in the minors; I didn’t “make it”, so instead dominated the minors. It was kinda silly but not enough for a championship.)
In fact, if it weren’t for all that failure, I’d barely reflect on it. I’m sure we had teammates who were in their first year of the big leagues, barely recall anything of that experience. It meant more because I had been tempered in failure.
As another example, I have been playing guitar for 30 years. When I was in college people would say “wow you’re so gifted.” And it would legitimately piss me off. Like, mother fucker no I am not “gifted”, I spent my life working on this. Call it talent, call it skill. It’s not a gift. There’s no satisfaction in my skill pleasing someone where I feel my hard work is actively minimized or reduced to something I didn’t fight for.
In both of these, for me, I am valuing the process. Not the outcome.
To over share, my dad was in recent years inducted to a sports hall of fame. He’s old as fuck. Retired for over a decade. Do you think he values that award, or the process that got him that award? I don’t need to ask him. Guy hates presents. Didn’t even post the photos of his induction to his Facebook. Did post pictures of a rare bird on his feeder recently.
I guess, I can see what you are trying to say. I don’t disagree with what you are saying. But It doesn’t work for me specifically.
All my “achievements”(any that I value) have only been through blood and sweat, and that is partly one of the reasons I dread beginning something new - It will be that difficult all over again.
What I assume to be equal amounts of effort as anyone else, never usually results in the same outcomes. I spent a year to learn a language, and I am still A1. Now, A1 isn’t bad, but I really wanted to have learnt at least B1 by now. I know others who have done that.
I find it hard to find motivation day in and day out to do things everyday. I want to paste the Vaas meme here. I am enjoying the little things, but there is such existential anxiety that makes it difficult to enjoy even those.
So I can’t just like the process as it is either.
I am not sure, but I guess I have to change what my “process” is.
Ok perfect we have a concrete example. Learning language. Your peers learning faster, it’s a bummer.
Some immediate thoughts: how are they learning? How do you learn? If you’re doing what they’re doing and not getting the same results, Is there something that can help you get where they’re getting that meets you with your strengths rather than whatever might be holding you back? You’re on an international message board. I’m not bilingual so no chance I can help you but there is almost definitely someone reading this post that fluently speaks the language you’re struggling with and also speaks English.
What has worked for you learning-wise? And if you don’t know, what are you knowledgeable about? What made you knowledgeable?
I am needing to pass a very hard exam that I’ve missed twice on already. My normal study methods ain’t working. I gotta adapt and go in discord and chat with folks. Not excited, but it’s what’s gonna fill the gaps.
You got this. Oh, shit, you know what. I’m not a John Mayer fan really but his teacher from berkley? Tomo fujita? Here. Here’s his mantra. He posts a similar video every fucking day. Literally.
It sounds like you’re trying something that’s not working. There’s 1000 ways to do anything. Try something that mirrors something else that’s worked for you. Or try something new. Don’t keep trying the same way that isn’t working, but keep trying.
Though the process is also something that is subject to external validation?
Say I’m learning to drive, but I keep failing the test. The goal/achievement is the end result; driver’s license. However my process of getting to that goal is sub-par compared to others, or “the average”. I’m stuck in the process itself, having many more lessons than others, but I have no apparent reason to struggle? Isn’t that infuriating?
In the example, you’re comparing yourself to others, by matter of outcome. And getting upset in the process.
Instead let’s say you stick to the process. You investigate why you failed. Parallel parking? Okay, fuck that. I’m gonna parallel park my mom’s van 10x a day when I get home from school and not fuck that up next time.
Now you’ve learned to humbly overcome failure rather than get emotional about comparing your outcome to that of others.
