I’m looking for a distro to contribute to finally make 'year of Linux desktop, to happen. For me, I see that as full UI/UX behaviour that behaves almost identical to Windows/Mac (is no middle click to paste).
Which distro comes closest to it?
Linux Mint. Everything including full system version upgrades and GPU driver installations can be done via GUI.
The default look and feel is Windows-y, and the Mint team does a great job of pre-loading their distro with all the basic apps most people need, including a good printer app, scanner app, PDF viewer, media player, etc.
What is the LTT Linux test? I know its a reference to the LTT YouTube channel and the fail they experienced. But how do we a LTT Linux test and report it as a success?
LTT test pass: the distro must assume you can’t read.
LOL fair enough. I guess a more friendly description of that would be “the distro must assume you don’t read everything”. Okay so that makes sense, given what happened.
What happened?
LTT - Linus Tech Tips YouTube channel tried out Linux, PopOS!. And there was a horrible outcome, where he tried to uninstall or install Steam and the dependencies would remove the entire desktop for whatever reason. Rendering the installation broken and unusable obviously. There was a big warning in the terminal, but he didn’t read and ignored it and continued.
There was lot of debate, but ultimately it was fault from both sides: ignoring warning that explains what happens, and no safeguards from the distro so this bug should not make it unusable.
you’ll become comfortable with the cli, it’s seriously not hard.
all you need to know to start is:
- ls (list files)
- cd (change directory)
- nano (edit text file)
then you can branch out from there
I’m going to comment again, not to be an asshole, but because this is an entirelt separate stream of thoughts from my previous comment:
‘GUI/UX for everything, absolutely no CLI’ approach
That’s not a distro thing, it’s a Desktop Environment thing. I personally use GNOME on my daily driver, but I’ve also used Xfce and MATE and gotten away with those. I’d say that GNOME is probably the most “idiot proof,” which is why I use it, but YMMV.
Linux “requiring the CLI” hasn’t been true for quite a few years now, it just has stuck around for a couple of reasons (imo):
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Tutorials/guides/advice about Linux tends to focus on the CLI because it’s easier to figure out someone’s OS and have them copy-paste a command, than to find out the specifics of their graphical setup and walk them through every window and button press.
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New users need to know and understand the difference between Kernel, OS, and Desktop Environment to find the answers they’re looking for.
If you tell Grandma that you installed Linux for her, the first time she tries to figure it out herself, she’s gonna search “how to change volume in Linux” on Google, and she’s going to be bombarded with a thousand answers all saying something different, most telling her to install programs, and most telling her to use the command line. Because Linux is not an operating system, it’s a family of dozens of operating systems that can each be configured thousands of different ways.
If you tell her “I installed Fedora,” she’s going to run into the same issue, but on a lesser scale. At least there’s only a few hundred different ways on a per-distro basis.
If you tell her “I installed GNOME,” she will look up “how to change volume in GNOME,” and find her answer. But now you need to explain to her the difference between the three, and when to include that information in her searches, and she will ask “why could I just say ‘how to X in Windows?’ and didn’t have to memorize 3 different names for the same thing that all give me different answers???”
And yes, your grandma will just call you to ask anyway, but what about when it’s your friend trying to figure it out at 3 am and he can’t get ahold of you?
Meanwhile, the terminal is (more or less) distro-/DE-agnostic. So their options are to learn more about how is Opperating System formed than they’ll realistically ever need to know, or use the reviled terminal. Such is the plight of DIY OSes.
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Linux Mint
Even on Windows and macOS you will have to use the command line for some tasks sooner or later.
For what in example? I used Windows for 8 years and then from time to time after that, plus helping my brothers computer with modern Windows. I never had to use the commandline. But maybe there are some tasks that requires it, because there is no GUI for. What would that be?
no you wont
I see that as full UI/UX behaviour that behaves almost identical to Windows/Mac (is no middle click to paste).
Linux is not Windows. Stop trying to make it work like Windows. Windows is crap and I don’t want Linux to work like it.
Expecting Linux to work like Windows is how new people get frustrated. Have you heard anyone say that macOS needs to be like Windows to succeed? Of course not. So stop saying that about Linux.
Also, “no middle-click to paste” is astonishingly stupid, I’ve been using it hundreds of times per day for way over a decade now. It’s one of the most useful and helpful features I’ve ever used.
OpenSUSE has YaST which allows for more GUI customisation than some other distros. Might be worth seeing if that is what you are interested in.
YaST is now dicontinued in favour of half-assed Cockpit.
Oh, I didn’t know. I haven’t used OpenSUSE for a while evidently.
Plain old Fedora works great. My mom uses it and is fine with just the app store.
It doesn’t really pass OP’s criteria if you need to install Nvidia drivers, though. It does not have a 1-click graphical installer like Mint and Ubuntu do.
Been in and out of Linux since 2006.
Linux Mint with Cinnamon DE is the only distro I’ve ever used that worked flawlessly for everything without needing to use the terminal at all. It worked so well it was boring. It’s the only distro I would recommend to a lay person
Getting hung up on feature parity with Windows and Mac is both a waste of time and literally impossible given the major differences between those two UIs. KDE already does most of that legwork anyway, and you can disable middle click paste easily.
IMO your time would be best spent making GUI tooling that doesn’t already exist. Identify a pain point for you that forces you to the terminal and start there.
Not helpful
Really great advice, was thinking of that myself recently. I’m considering making some GUI apps to address my terminal journeys. While I enjoy terminal, not everyone should.
The distro shouldn’t matter too much, but the desktop environment will.
I recommend using KDE if you want something similar to Windows, and GNOME if you want something similar to macOS.
Using a GUI also isn’t really dependent on the DE either for most programs. It’s dependent on whether or not a GUI for it exists in the first place.
full UI/UX behaviour that behaves almost identical to Windows/Mac
You want Windows or Mac.
If you want a computer that you can do stuff like web-browsing, document/spreadsheet/pdf/slideshow editing/creation, gaming, or multimedia processing on, there are distros and utilities on Linux that make those more-or-less easy and beginner-friendly,
BUT it requires divesting oneself of the habits, behaviors, and paradigms of other operating systems and being willing to learn anew. Community-based Libre software is developed in an entirely different way for an entirely different purpose; because of that, it is nearly impossible to recreate the same software as for-profit proprietary software. One is made by a community hacking together a functional system that suits their needs, the other is made to generate revenue, and thus has to keep users dependent on it by trapping them in dark patterns and igorance of its workings.
If you just want “Mac or Windows, but free as in beer,” suck it up, pay the devil his due, and buy one of those OSes. Libre Software is an entirely different paradigm, and thus requires a whole paradigm shift before anyone will be happy with it; on-boarding people who aren’t ready to divest themselves of the old paradigm just leads to disgruntled users who blame you for anything wrong with their PC, and creates a market void in the FOSS community ready to be filled by corpo proprietary slopware.
Mint or Fedora require no more command line than Windows does.
I daily drive Debian and it doesn’t require CLI for anything other than troubleshooting the problems I caused myself. There has been one time in 5+ years where it booted to console because the maintainers made changes to the kernel that fucked up the legacy nvidia drivers, and it had a workaround of booting to a previous kernel until they fixed it within the week. For newbies that might be scary the first time it happens, but its an easy fix that still didn’t require the CLI.
But nowhere did I say Linux required the terminal, I was addressing a different part of OP’s question. I guess since it’s such a prevalent myth, not denying it is tantamount to implicit agreement, so here’s me denying it.
Is MacOs “absolutely no cli”? It wasn’t when I was using it (admittedly, some 10yrs ago), except maybe for the basic things which any mainstream linux distro also provides.
What about Windows? Back in the day I would have paid to have a semi-decent CLI instead of being forced to use regedit (I hear regedit is still going strong, but I’ve not touched windows for an even longer period than MacOs)
What about Windows?
Every Microsoft forum suggestion:
sfc /scannow
Windows hasn’t been “No CLI” since the requirements for TPM were added to Win 11 at the latest. Arguably, it’s been even longer if you wanted to get any customization beyond “changing window border colors and desktop background,” or if you wanted to do “hacker” stuff like remove start menu ads, but I guess most average users just didn’t bother.
Resentment aside, this is more attacking the letter of the query than the spirit. At best, OP admits the terminal isn’t bad and scary but still wants a distro that works best for GUI-focused people, at worst their eyes glazed over and they stopped reading everything you said after “when I was using it”
Well, if you prentend iterm does not exist, you can probably still use a mac to browse the web.
Would suggest Linux Mint
I suggest LMDE not regular mint. Normal mint updates often and ocassionally with bugs while rare and mostly I see for gaming they do happen. Stability and reliability are king. So LMDE aka Linux mint debian edition. Its entirely the same as normal mint made by the same people but it’s rock solid unlike Ubuntu version.
Sincerely I’ve used both to game and daily pc usage even work. LMDE no questions.
Regular Mint is much closer to what the OP is asking for. It removes the crappy Ubuntu stuff but gets to benefit from the good stuff like better hardware support, GUIs for drivers/updates and PPA support which is especially important if you have an AMD GPU as it’s how you’ll get up-to-date Mesa.
Up to date mesa is in regular mint but only sort of. You have to manually go bleeding edge if you want by installing mesa drivers manually. Base Mint is a few versions behind on purpose, stability and I would say your kernel version makes a bigger difference in the end given how good mint is I recommend 6.14 kernel especially on fresh hardware, you can change your kernel version anytime in the update manager preferences, 6.8 is old but stable. 6.14 is newer, faster in gaming. Unless your on brand new, brand new released hardware this a non issue truly.
Most people will be fine with stock mint and you can’t go wrong much with either. I game on stock mint full time! Windows only for BF6/dual boot. It’s all I knew for several years was mint before going to NIXos and fedora and more… My hardware is 7900xt 7600x. Full AMD on my rigs though I’ve built intel Nvidia… I’ve built dozens of PCs/laptops/servers as I build and sell them. You honestly can’t go wrong with either version but all I am saying is that if you hate bugs, updates ocassionally doing odd things especially to steam and proton. LMDE. I’ve been on mint for years this is just my 2 cents. I also value not fucking with my OS anymore I dislike command line memorization. I’m done tinkering and fixing shit all the time and prefer GUI or shit to just work ideally I’ll trouble shoot for a few minutes then I stop, no more days tied up over dumb shit. With windows or Linux. LMDE is my choice. Best of luck.
Mint, (?)ubuntu, and Pop!_OS are what I suggest because 1) most software install guides target these distros. Anything that uses a package manager other than apt means extra googling and pain for those who just want an OS that works and could care less about the miniscule advantages of one over another 2) stable releases and driver support and 3) similar UI to whatever they’re coming over from. Someone else ITT mentioned KDE for Windows and Gnome(or Cosmic once it’s stable) for Mac folk and I think that tracks well
