Following https://tarte.nuage-libre.fr/c/fediverse/p/194717/we-need-more-users I decided to explore data a little bit more. I’m not the biggest fan of growth-as-as-target so I wanted to see how much the people were participating in the discussion.
The data
I took the data from the API explorer in https://api.fediverse.observer/ with this query:
query {
monthlystats {
date_checked
softwarename
total_posts
total_users
total_comments
}
}
Then parsed the json with this https://jqlang.org/ filter:
jq '.data.monthlystats | map(select(.total_users > 0 and (.softwarename == "lemmy" or .softwarename == "mbin" or .softwarename == "kbin" or .softwarename == "piefed"))) | group_by(.date_checked) | map( {date_checked: .[0].date_checked, total_users: ([.[] | .total_users] | add), total_posts: ([.[] | .total_posts] | add), total_comments: ([.[] | .total_comments] | add)}) | map({date_checked, posts: .total_posts/.total_users, comments: .total_comments/.total_users}) | sort_by(.date_checked) | map([.date_checked, (.posts | tostring), (.comments | tostring)]) | .[] | @csv'
(As you see I filtered for the threadiverse. I also did the same with all software, I’ll put the graph for that in comments)
Then did a good old’ chart
What to think of it
I don’t know. Users’ activity is on the rise and I find it nice
Yes.
Needing more users is fine. Sure, we could always use more friends (or enemies, I guess)
But, ultimately, just having people come here first and then whatever hellhole corpo-media second is at least a step in the right direction. I feel like user activity increasing is a good sign that there’s a lot of people out there investing time in the fediverse instead of the corporate hell-loop social media.
Quality over quantity
Lemmy has neither.
I disagree, ive had more useful discussion here than anywhere on the internet in a while.
What communities can you recommend?
False dichotomy in this case, IMO.
We need active users, not just users that post something once then disappear. The MAU is more important than the user count.
Let’s keep it just under critical mass for Eternal September to not happen.
That was over 30 years ago, longer than I’ve been alive. I just want niche communities to subscribe to (Cities: Skylines, model trains, Madison WI) instead of the constant barrage of generic politics, Linux obsession, and low effort memes.
Grow organically or die
That’s a very capitalist take. Remember how good things used to be? That’s how good the Fediverse is now. We don’t want it to grow or die. If it grows, great. If it doesn’t, great. Quality over quantity, imo.
I saw it as more philosophical than capitalistic. Like when Nietzsche said “What does not kill you makes you stronger”.
the fediverse is very low quality unless you’re a furry linux anarchist/communist
Yep. This is it.
Where is all this furry shit everyone is complaining about? I see one or two posts break 100 votes maybe every other week.
You’re spot on about Linux. But I think it’s a good thing to be introduced to stuff you’re uncomfortable with. The constant flood of Linux content convinced me to switch.
deleted by creator
You’re proving my comment made yesterday about a large chunk of Lemmy users being barely literate.
You’ve convinced me that we need more users given the high number of current posters who like to criticize others with insults reminiscent of a bratty 5th grader. We need to dilute that voice.
The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users
The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users
I don’t see this on mine. Isn’t NSFW enabled by default?
This is why I don’t generally believe in all being a good “starting” view for new users. Local would probably make more sense until the user has subscriptions, and then defaulting to subscriptions once the user has joined communities. This would mean an always active feed to start, prioritizing the “local” community for users to participate in the instance they belong to, while also not bombarding them with content from the firehose.
My 2 cents, probably easier to say what to do than to do it though, being a programmer myself. 😎
yeah i think when a new user signs up on an instance, they should be automatically subscribed to a certain list of communities that fit the vibe of the instance. like when you sign up to a memes community, you get automatically subscribed to all meme communities even from other instances.
the instance admin would have to maintain a community list for that.
I’m not saying it’s necessarily NSFW content
Pro-capitalism garbage is putting me off, yet is everywhere. I like that it’s different, not everyone wants the same things
lemmy is basically NSFW because of this, yes.
I’ve been blocking communities and posters as they pop up. It works until someone spins up a new instance for it, but then you can just block that as well.
yes, i can.
but it’s problematic if I have to do that every day. It’s almost a daily part of my use of lemmy.
I don’t want to have to block stuff as a part of my daily use.
this is actually the reason I don’t use tiktok or instagram. because my user experience was block block block, everytime I used it. And it never stopped shoveling the shit I didn’t want to see into my face. and a lot of it was pornographic clickbait crap.
i liked it back when it was smaller, but around 2020/2021 both platforms decided to shove tits in my face non stop. and i wasn’t on those platforms for tits. I was on there for my hobbies, but it kept pushing porn on me. so i stopped using it entirely. i still use youtube because youtube isn’t constantly shoveling porno shit in my face.
that’s kind of what lemmy feels like. except it’s with furryies, linux, etc. even when I block stuff more of it keeps popping up. i want to see more generalist content related to general interests, not content from people who are fetishists.
i have been on lemmy over two years. my first 1.5 years i hardly ever had to block anything, because shit content i dont’ like wasn’t flooding my feed. when i first got here it was just a lot of general news/science/information and link aggregation about nerdy stuff, which i really liked and why i liked reddit. i know there was furry porn on reddit from it’s inception, but I never had to see any of it unless i went looking for it specifically, like a lot of the fetish stuff on reddit.
Try PieFed. The reason you keep seeing furry content on Lemmy is that you are forced into browsing “All” in order to see some new content, but then you don’t like some of the new content that you see.
On PieFed with categories of communities (instance-defined Topic areas and user Feeds that are user-customizeable and shareable) you can have your cake (have a tight Subscribed feed, e.g. without being subscribed to any politics communities if you wanted) but then also eat it too (news & politics content is but a click away, or movies & TV).
Combining together comments across all cross-posts also helps a lot with community discovery. I haven’t searched by All in a long time, unless I just felt nostalgic and wanted to, but there is no longer any need with this new model.
reddit used to be an internet place you looked at in class or uni when you had a break. I dont know how people get introd to it, but appealing to high schoolers is what reddit did
I so feel we need more users, but not just users. It’s “niche” users we need. There’s a lot of techies on the threadiverse (Lemmy, PieFed, Mbin), but not enough people who care about other stuff.
So communities outside that, struggle to thrive.
But we are not going to get “niche” users if we don’t get large numbers of users. Niche interests will only come up here when the population is so large that even the long tail ends up with critical masses.
Those defending “quality over quantity” miss this exact point.
My point about “niche” is that from the current perspective, the niche communities is the more regular ones, because at the moment, the majority of users here is technical. We need more ordinary users, not just more users.
We scare normal, non-techie people away. The Threadiverse in general and Lemmy in particular is very lacking in moderation capabilities, especially by not federating mod reports across instances (PieFed does that, but Lemmy does not).
Just my two cents, but there’s just no reason for people to come here when it’s 80+% political shit and rage bait and virtue signaling. Hell, I’ve got 80% of the content here filtered out as it is, and I want to be here.
Find your nearest non-political hobby community and start posting things people actually want to see and maybe we might see some growth or people sticking around. My current hobby is Meshtastic, so I’ve been pretty active there.
Exactly! Well said.
I’m kinda bummed more people from Reddit didn’t come here after the exodus. But I guess it’s a Catch-22 thing cause that could’ve been all kinds of good or all kinds of bad so who knows so he’s starting off fresh and slow. It’s kind of the best way to go maybe
100% agree, I can just check once a day, skipping basically everything you mentioned + the non-memes in the meme comms and that’s it, no need to open the threadiverse again until the next day.
We also need artists and creative people on board, yes, even the ones who draw porn, but the threadiverse users seemed kind of hostile towards many things during the reddit exodus they decided it wasn’t a good place.
Wonder if they’d have a different experience now, since most instances have defederated hex, ml and grad, and those were the loudest when it came to brigade and complain about anything sexy.
There are barely any places that defederate from lemmy.ml, including PieFed.ca that you are on. Thankfully PieFed allows us to block all users from an instance, but new users will have to discover on their own that they even should do this, and until then will be exposed to all of their comments and posts.
I agree with everything that you’ve said. I would also add:
Find your nearest non-political non-tech hobby community and start posting things people actually want to see
Because if we’re going to cast the same net reddit does, people with a more varied set of interests need to come here. Can’t be all linux, politics, and news. We’re going to need people who like baking. We’re going to need sports fans. We’re going to need music.
I could type new communities we need to be active all day. Humans are surprisingly a diverse set of creatures. You have one set of interests, I have another. Different set of interests. And both are totally valid.
The thing people here don’t seem to grasp is that OTHER interests and OTHER people using the fediverse isn’t a bad thing. If a bunch of boomers come here, and make their own communities to talk about Taylor Swift, and whatever else they talk about on facebook. That’s good that it would be here! Not bad!
They could talk about gardening, and model trains, and whatever else. It wouldn’t appeal to you, and thats ok.
Plus the other generations as well!
We’re going to need sports fans.
This. We are in huge lack of sports discussion here on lemmy. I’m looking at other places for sports content because it’s just not here. I miss live threads.
!football@sopuli.xyz has live threads. The bot supports a few sports.
I agree, Go Guards!
We had the same thought. Right before I saw your reply, I added some hobby communities to my comment as examples.
This place is so flooded with politics and raging over the news that I’m about to choose a random hobby community that’s active and pick up said hobby just to be able to have something besides Star Trek and Linux to talk about here lol.
What social media isn’t filled with politics and rage when looking at the all category? I don’t know any social media that is broad appeal that doesn’t have that stuff unless you stick only to your subscription feed or use filters.
Only social media I’ve seen that’s been free of that stuff by default have been niche topic focused communities like a video game forum that only allows off tangent stuff in the offtopic section.
Orrrrr…pick a non-active community. Or both. And start posting in your local community. By that, I mean I live in Cleveland. There are 3 Cleveland communities. All dead. I’m the only one posting in one. I still get replies and upvotes. So people are there. They just all lurk until I post.
Do that. And post in a dead community. And post in an active community. We need activity basically everywhere besides tech/politics/news.
Consider redirecting people from the two other dead communities to the one you post to
It would be a huge improvement if politics were corralled into the political communities.
There are accounts that double post in both politics and news as well as other communities, I assume because people who have politics filtered actually secretly want to see politics… (/S)
What we REALLY need is more posts about Linux.
Do you use Arch btw
Yes. I’m here for the long tail, the niche communities. And what do I see? Not enough photos houseplants! Come on, you must have some too. And to add to the list, !books@lemmy.world looks nice.
You’re the pineapple blossom post! That’s such a nice picture.
I’ve been intentionally trying to be less of a lurker and more active in comments. !books@lemmy.world is one place that I’ve tried to be more active because I love reading, thinking, and talking about books. I was also posting updates about a green lynx spider on my lemmy.world account before I switched to piefed, this is a good reminder for me to post an update on my girl (RIP) and her beautiful little babies.
Lots of us lurkers need to be more active, myself included.
Hearing this from someone that from what I can see has one post and four comments in 3 months is more than a little ironic.
I may have created a two accounts when I got here, and I will be baited into replying to snarky comments from only this one! I also like the low-key split-personality feeling, and experimenting with a different set of subscriptions. Anyway, so I’m no content-generation machine. But I’m doing my part, trying to keep up the signal-to-noise ratio!
My experience is that Lemmy is decent for tech-related stuff but outside of that, it can be difficult to find active communities depending on the hobby. I just went looking for a good Spanish learning or general language learning community and the few that I found have been inactive for months. Maybe I wasn’t looking in the right place (I searched in Communities > All).
I don’t think maximum growth should be a goal for Lemmy, I just think it needs a critical mass of activity to keep it interesting. Currently I think we just about have that for many tech/FOSS related topics but not so much outside it. The problem, I think, is that a lot of people who aren’t into tech/FOSS issues don’t know about Lemmy and don’t see why they wouldn’t just use Reddit or Discord.
we need more posts about what make us happy and less about what we’re angry at (which is pretty much goddamned everything).
Unfortunately the “political shit” and “ragebait” is important.
The Fediverse is what you make of it. If you subscribe to a bunch of communities posting political shit and ragebait, that’s what you’ll get. That’s not a problem with the threadiverse, that’s a problem with your curation. One that it sounds like you remedied, so I’m not sure why you feel the need to call it out as a problem.
Look at it from a new user’s perspective; someone who has not curated their feed or otherwise “made the fediverse what they want”. e.g. They land on Lemmy World or another big instance and their default sort is “active”. Doing that now in an incognito window, and half the front page is rage, same on the second, and the rest some random shitposts and Linux.
Truth be told, looking at that, I probably wouldn’t want to sign up. Especially if I didn’t know that different instances have different cultures, etc.
Assuming they’re a normie (which we desperately fucking need here), I just don’t see that they’d want to stick around. Aside from trolls and spammers, the only people we seem to consistently attract here are the “Wah wah I was banned from Reddit” types and, while there’s certainly a sizable pool to draw from, I wouldn’t exactly consider them the pick of the litter for growing the fediverse.
The point of OPs post is that usage here is declining, and I am simply pointing out that I feel all the rage and politics is not particularly inviting.
There’s too many armchair activists here who won’t let you enjoy a single moment without reminding you that something bad is happening somewhere in the world and that you have some kind of moral obligation to be angry all the time about it. And if you’re not angry all the time then you’re somehow part of the problem.
That’s exactly what i’m complaining about as well. Being angry doesn’t even help. Having a clear head helps, but being angry IMO stands against that.
Rage bait, tiktok/twitter/facebook/Instagram reposts, politics just happen to be what tends to get the most activity across social media. That’s what you see when you view social media without an account whether it is lemmy or popular corporate run sites.
Its why filter tools, avoiding all, and sticking to subscriptions has been a thing for a long time prior to the reddit third party hammer.
I don’t know any social media that isn’t explicitly niche focused that isn’t a terrible default experience. And by niche I mean like some old school forum that only talks allows talks of a specific topic like video games.
Broad appeal talk about whatever topic you want is going to be generally trash by default, since so many different topics and communities are sharing the same space.
We really need better onboarding for new users, maybe ask them about their interests to give them a default set of subscriptions (it would probably just be a tweaked version of the community search page). And default to the subscribed feed, not the All feed
Isn’t that how Piefed onboarding works?
Yes.
I’ve seen so many discussions like this about what needs to be done. So I did those things.
Very few noticed and I quickly got tired of popping up and saying “oh yeah I fixed that” to everything. Besides it makes me look like a smug asshole.
piefed is great! :D
You should be a proud smug asshole (endearing) for fixing the missing capability of Lemmy poisoned the well.
I wouldn’t have stuck being in the threadiverse if it wasn’t for piefed. It would just be a failed third attempt to join Lemmy since the reddit APIpocalypse.
yea I think so lol
I love piefeds default :)
And as much as I dont like parts of bluesky, they did the onboarding the correct way.
Just my two cents, but there’s just no reason for people to come here when it’s 80+% political shit a
As a contra point, I’m glad that its like this, a lack of politcal debate is toxic to democracy and that way be dragons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
In a political context, the phrase means to generate public approval, not by excellence in public service or public policy, but by diversion, distraction, or by satisfying the most immediate or base requirements of a populace, by offering a palliative: for example food (bread) or entertainment (circuses). Juvenal originally used it to decry the “selfishness” of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population’s erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.
That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be more other stuff as well though.
Lemmy doesn’t have quality debates on politics either. The mods in the relevant communities swing the ban hammer liberally against everyone not following their opinion. Mainstream democrat talking points get banned as fascist. Antisemitic stuff is widespread as well.
You mostly get woke to extreme left echo chambers going on.
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a good place to see this moderation in action.
I don’t disagree that we need more positive and high quality hobby content. Sure.
But personally I’m so sick of dudes complaining about “political shit and rage bait and virtue signaling”, whatever half of that banal nonsense is even supposed to mean…
In fact, I’d go as far to say that people who whine about everything being “political” is a bright fucking red flag to me. My immediate assumption upon reading that is “this person is a Trump supporter who voted for this exact shit to happen because they want it to happen, and they don’t want to be confronted by the fact that other people don’t.” I know exactly what kind of people don’t want to hear about “politics” anymore now that Trump is elected, trampling our institutions, and fucking everything up. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, right?
I think something that has been lost about progressive politics and leftism and general (in US-centric circles at least) is that as much as people on the left disagree about absolutely everything, in general (with plenty of exceptions) politically left movements and cultural spaces tend to be far better at identifying common values and truths that are universal and holding individuals and communities to those values and truths.
Whereas on the right the endless stumping about valuing freedom of speech turns out to mostly be a mirage when it comes to innocent, vulnerable people being physically murdered on camera, on the left institutions and individuals are much more often held to a standard of values and called out if they fail to reach it.
When most people enter a space where left voices haven’t been systematically silenced, they often react negatively and feel rebuked. I know some of my first encounters when I was younger with actually left spaces initially made me bristle with how willing they were to say no to things that weren’t healthy, to challenge oppressive structures even if they were so normalized they were invisible to me… it can be an uncomfortable process but ultimately leftist spaces actually try to do it and it is good that they do it.
I entirely agree with people having ways to decide when politics comes up on their feed and when it doesn’t, but the idea that we are all just being a bit too negative and obsessed with the news and we should cheer up is honestly insulting in 2026 given, you know gestures at everything.
Leftist spaces have changed a lot over the last two decades. Not for the better.
Cancel Culture Culture is real and extremely aggressive among the left.
We have a lot of non-voters that complain about the results they helped achieve.
The red flag is at least, “they have so much privilege in our society they can ignore politics”, if not what you stated
Thanks for the links🙂
Niche hobbies and small communities (that are active) is what is needed
Yes! We need more esp32 users to come up with bonkers ideas.
Comes with numbers. Not before.
For that we need a LOT more users. It’s kind of a chicken and egg situation.
Hopefully we can capitalise on the next Rexit.
In the past lots of people moved over but left because of the terrible UX. I think PieFed has solved most of the UX issues.
Reddit had the additional benefit of being found through google… that’s how i learned about the site.
you cant google your way into this place - and that’s a huge limitation, when it comes to expanding the user base with random normal people.
If you Google for “beans no pooping challenge” https://lemmy.eco.br/post/113558?scrollToComments=true at least appears on the first page of results - that’s progress, baby!
This is it exactly. I made a hard cut with Reddit, but I’ll admit to missing the sysadmin subreddit. The place was full of very smart, helpful people and also cranky. The PowerShell subreddit was another great resource. I haven’t been willing to go back, but those sorts of communities only exist when you hit a certain mass of people on a platform.
I dont think more users is very important. Its not going to make Lemmy change from mostly memes anyway.
The mentality of the largest Lemmy instances is still to moderate away opinions they dont agree with, so this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.
Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.
But we can all enjoy memes together. :) Its kind of nice. Lemmy is chill and easy. Even kid friendly.
If I get about 50% likes and 50% dislikes on a comment then I feel my comment was closest to the truth. This tells me that lemmy is not an echo chamber.
I like that communities/instances have opinions and go in a direction. That’s what make decentralization useful rather than one big average thing that always pushes towards the status quo in the end. Make your own community with your own rules without all-powerful overseers, that’s a system I believe in
Doesnt really work in practice. If a community exists on Lemmy world, you are not going to have success running the same community somewhere else.
Yeah if you want to do the same community it’s going to be harder, but if you want to make your own community with your own content and views it’s different.
Also, the history of the internet contradicts your point, communities have moved servers since the beginning, there never was a unique central point for everything. Lemmy is a bit inferior here because it only allows you to see communities one by one, but piefed can group communities into feeds that you can directly follow. By not placrng focus on a single one piefed can push for much more diversity
this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.
Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.
So true, and so sad. This has been such a disappointment to me, and even a bit of a surprise. I just didn’t realize how badly most people respond to seeing viewpoints they don’t fully share. Personally I don’t get the point of discussion where everyone agrees, but apparently that is quite a rare attitude. So I share your pessimism, but with one glimmer of hope. There is at least one forum which has cracked this problem: Hacker News. The issue being that it’s frequented by exactly the kind of techie Spock-like personalities that aren’t representative of the general population.
Yeah exactly, they dont have downvotes and any upvote also requires karma, so you cant just create new accounts and bot upvote things.
But yes, its also a much more mature audience at that site. Many are older computer nerds. Lemmy has some of that too though.
Yes.
Do we want Reddit amounts of users? No.
But there’s a lot of growth between here and there.
IMHO the internet isn’t for everyone. that might make me sound like an elitarian asshole but i think the internet’s only for people who enjoy going through information and are able to think without being swayed by group-think (tribalism) because otherwise it simply ends up in a bubble of rage bait and propaganda.
Essentially i think that maybe the internet of the future will be much smaller overall (think like 3% of its current user count) but it will probably be better that way.
100% agreed. A Reddit clone with Reddit amounts of users will end up almost as bad as Reddit. The thing that makes Reddit worse in that situation is that they are a public company.
This platform would have to evolve a lot before it can deal with so many users. There has to be some significant innovation and improvement in moderation and administration, or more users would inevitably lead to endemic misinformation and power tripping and all of that shit you see on Reddit.
I mean the intent here is for moderating capacity and tools to increase with user increases. Reddit grew but grew before its own moderator capacity allowed for it. Now I would argue its overall activity levels are inflated by AI, trolls and spammers. I’m on Piefed and in terms of the discussion about growth, I think about new instance admin tools can mitigate and prevent bad behaviour, trolling, AI and spamming from (usually) new accounts that otherwise would cement themselves on as regular spammers and trolls.
It’s one thing to grow, but you need to grow the ability to deal with the problems that can derive from that.
One of the benifits of our “own” system is like you said, we can build the tools as they come.
Reddit and other platforms, we were always beholden to what they gave us.
With the fedi, you want something better? Build it! Or support those who are doing so. Its much more productive than just complaining all the time.
The post the other day about lemmy needing more users and engagement gave a little nudge to me commenting more. I guess same thing happened with many users and you can see the spike in the graph.
One thing that annoys me about each statistic about posts is that I don’t know how many of these posts are actually interesting and engaged with.
For example, there is a specific instance that just mirrors reddit content and has barely any engagement. The bot posts mulitple posts per hour, mostly without any comments or upvotes.
It seems rather irrelevant to compare these posts to actually interesting posts with a nice discussion and a couple of upvotes.
My suggestion would be to count and plot the number of posts that have at least a few interactions.
PieFed labels bots and bot-like accounts, allowing you to choose options like blur or show the content semi-transparently.
I‘m not worried about myself. It’s easy enough to block stuff I don’t like. All I wanted to say is that counting daily posts without excluding bots doesn’t make much sense to me.
The issue does get murky - especially when people use the same account both for their bot posting and also for their human interactions, rather than separating the two.
Out of curiosity, which instance?
The instance is called lemmit.online, and the most upvoted post on the whole instance is “This bot is bad for lemmy”.
the question is whether the upvotes of that post makes over half of the total upvotes on all posts on that instance, and that i seriously doubt
No? Did I claim this?
The most upvoted post has ~20 upvotes, but there are a lot of posts with 1-5 upvotes.
