• Balldowern@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    Foreigner here. I know you civilians don’t control the government anymore & many of us see your hands are tied, but if Americans really want to stop wars, then stop enlisting in any branch of your military except the coast guard. Every other branch is primarily used for invasion. If you’ve already enrolled/are trapped by the military, try to become a conscientious objector.

    And FFS, arm yourselves (civilians) to the teeth. The tyrannical government your Founding Fathers envisioned has arrived.

    • Formfiller@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      The problem with this is that the military is the only path out of poverty that provides socialized healthcare and paid educational benefits for large portions of our population. I think people outside of the USA don’t understand how the lack of worker protections, healthcare, debt based education and exploding homelessness crisis keeps Americans in bondage

      • BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        8 hours ago

        If I miss a week of work I’m homeless. There’s some people a single day can bring them down. They precariously positioned us here so by the time we’ll do anything about it it’ll be too late as they sweep us over the edge.

    • anon_8675309@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      A lot of us are armed. But you know that orange turd would order the military to bomb complete cities. We would be taking on the world’s most powerful military.

      But. I do agree with you. That what it’s going to take. We just need to organize.

      • Jhex@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        A lot of us are armed. But you know that orange turd would order the military to bomb complete cities. We would be taking on the world’s most powerful military.

        Yes, you have made grave mistakes for many years that led you to this very deep hole… now they climb back is not going to be a walk in the park but either you do it or die in the hole

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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        15 hours ago

        Given the fact that the navy were quite happy to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians and then come back a second time when some of them didn’t appear to be dead enough, doesn’t give me a lot of hope that there’ll be a lot of conscientious objectors in the military. My view is that if you’re already looking at the military as a career option you’ve got a certain opinion about killing and that opinion is that it’s okay to do it as long as someone else gave you the order. Absolutely no need to think about the legality of the order either.

        Advocating moral responsibility for your actions is kind of a prerequisite of military service.

    • theherk@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      Each of the branches have long had many global peacetime missions, including humanitarian. They don’t offset the offensive nature of a deployed force, but it can be a good thing to have for delivering defense and aid.

      The problem isn’t the enlisted. It is also not limited to the officers. The problem, at present, is primarily the civilian leadership being absolutely unprofessional, unethical, and self-centered.

      • Jhex@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        I’m so tired of these “Ackchyually” excuses, pretending to be smart yet failing to see you are still pointing the finger at your collective selves

        Those “civilian leadership being absolutely unprofessional, unethical, and self-centered” were appointed by the regime of the Orange Pedophile whom the American people voted for a second term in office… the vast majority of Americans either voted for this or could not be bothered opposing it with a simple vote they could have mailed in

        • theherk@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          I’m not “pretending to be smart”, at least not intending to do so. I’m just saying exactly what I said. The military branches all have some non-offensive parts of their mission. That’s just true. Airlift for aid delivery has traditionally been part of the mission, for example. I was also careful not to exonerate them for missions that cause harm or for violation of LOAC or UCMJ. They should know better.

          I said the enlisted aren’t the primary problem. Maybe you think they pick and choose their missions, but they simply don’t. As far as voters… yeah many of us are pissed too. What do you want me to do? I vote, I try to persuade others to, try to do my part to keep the electorate informed, try to feed my family, etc. Are you asking us to build some fifth column or some such? That sounds great, but many have a lot of context that informs their decisions.

          • Jhex@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            Let me ask you this. I believe this is true but let’s pretend it’s just a hypothetical scenario:

            Democracy in the USA is over, no more elections, everyone lives under martial law and your precious enlisted are your direct oppressors now.

            What are you willing to sacrifice to return your country to Democracy? your life? an hour of watching Netflix?

            Let me remind you that you ARE in this scenario and the longer you wait, the harder it will be

            • theherk@lemmy.world
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              7 hours ago

              I’m an immigrant, living in Europe, taking care of a few people that need me. I’m also a veteran with prosthetic discs in my back. Be specific; what do you suggest?

              • Jhex@lemmy.world
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                7 hours ago

                Since you already left America, I guess you did see the writing on the wall long ago (or maybe just got lucky)

                Thinking you were in the USA, I was hoping you’d stop consuming as much as possible and start organizing marches… not on weekends to minimize disruption, on weekdays and preferably during peak hours so they can be noticed (and yes that can be done in whatever little town or big city people live, no need to pretend only marching in DC works)

      • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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        10 hours ago

        This is like saying “don’t blame ICE, blame the executive branch”. Soldiers follow orders. The enlisted soldiers WILL kill US citizens resisting the government if ordered to. So yeah, they are part of the problem. Same with cops.

        • theherk@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          My point is that it isn’t enlisted people that decide on mission. And simply not enlisting doesn’t change that. If the numbers are needed, they will be achieved via volunteer or draft.

          Enlisted may or may not attack citizens depending on their views on which orders are lawful. This is nothing like saying not to blame ICE. ICE are signing up to do exactly what they’re doing and should be responsible for it. But enlisted personnel don’t enlist to attack citizens, generally. I’m not saying they are not part of the problem, but they certainly aren’t the root of it.