This was the right move. One agent doesn’t make a material difference, letting him die wouldn’t have impeded ICE one bit. In the bigger picture, it has more of an impact as a story.
As a story it could have been an agent dying due to a medical emergency that no one could have done anything about.
This action changes it so that the detainees were caring and compassion and competent. By contrast, it exposes the agencies lack of training, falling to recognize the situation and not knowing what to do and letting detainees have control of the firearm. They showed ICE as incompetent and targetting obviously good folk.
On a smaller scale, it spares them. Who knows, maybe this event gives some of the agents involved some pause about how bad they are being.
That sounds like a great storyline, for a cop drama on CBS. One less agent is a net positive, no matter which way you look at it.
Who’s to say that that particular agent doesn’t later blind a protester? Or worse, kill one? Or maybe he just abducts a 5 year, and puts them on a plane to Louisiana?
They just killed another person in Minneapolis. But yeah, let’s patch up the brown shirts.
There is no logical reason to give aid or comfort to the enemy. These aren’t protesters that say mean things that we don’t like. They are a secret police, and their boot’s are on the neck’s of every person who lives in this country.
If you want to start your own club that goes around and makes sure that your oppressors are comfortable in their crusade against liberty, go right on ahead.
Helping them en masse would materially contribute to their capability, but responding to an isolated health event isn’t going to help them, certainly not more than the story as it played out undermined them.
Certainly for the detainees, this was a better outcome. They actually honored their rights after what they did, when they clearly were on a trajectory to deny them contact, and even got released.
The primary issue with them isn’t that they don’t render first aid, it’s that they imprison innocent people in concentration camps and kill them for no reason beyond hate.
Letting them die isn’t “becoming them,” it’s allowing them to face the consequences of the rules THEY are imposing. It’s Natural Selection, which they’ve chosen to not believe in. Why should we save them from themselves? Let nature take its course.
Proactive vs reactive, these dipshits are going out of their way to cause suffering and death. Watching them bleed out and die or refusing to render aid or even just offing them yourself isn’t becoming them.
Fun fact during WW2 on the Pacific front allied soldier (American, Australian, New Zealander, Canadian, etc) took to shooting surrendering or injured Japanese troops. This would usually be classified as a war crime, but there are exceptions to that rule in this case since the Japanese soldiers had a tendency of playing dead, trying to kill medics, falsely surrendering, and pulling the pins on their grenades and blowing themselves up.
One does not become their foe by reacting to them accordingly. One becomes their foe by proactively doing the same thing, like the Nazis and Soviets raping and murdering each other and the territories and people between them.
Civility and society are a social contract, if someone rips theirs up to free themselves from its restrictions, they also remove themselves from its protections.
Civility and society are social contracts. I let the government do its job unimpeded when it is abiding by the contract. When they aren’t, then I don’t.
The reality is that the societal contract broke down a long time ago, and the illusion of safety has been mollifying people since MLK (and likely before). There have always been fascists at the wheel, the only difference now is they are mask off and more indiscriminate.
So my question is, do we vilify every healthcare worker who did more than sit by to help a fascist? Do we demean them for doing what they thought was right? Am I ask them to be judge, jury, and executioner so that the fascists all die off?
You are allowed proportional force in defending yourself, so if Timmy tries to hit you you are indeed allowed to hit him back insofar as it pertains to stopping harm being done to you or others.
Nothing wrong with that. If Timmy hit me first, Timmy should expect a broken nose. That’s how you deal with bullies. It works every time, perhaps with occasional reinforcement.
It’s nice to think about things like morality, humanity, and diplomacy…in a vacuum. The world is a bastardization of that vacuum.
We know that the fascists will do anything to achieve their goals. They don’t follow court orders, they violate constitutional rights constantly.
When one of the pigs breaks down your door, kidnaps your family, ignores judge’s ruling’s ordering the release of your family, sexually assaults your women and children, chokes the men out unconscious, possibly killing some of them in the process—you would not bat an eye to see one of them squealing in pain.
It wouldn’t make you feel better, but you’d know there is one less feral pig on the streets.
I guess I am not convinced that they are all fascists. You see enemies, I see victims of fascists rulers who have used their fear to warp their minds.
I see fear in them. I see fear in you. I also never said I wouldn’t shoot them. I did say that slaughtering then when they are down is barbaric.
Your position relies on a strawman enemy and a lack of humanity. The very thing you despise in them you become.
It’s wild that we have nearly a hundred years since WW2 and we seem to forget that fear lead to all the atrocities that occured here in the name of fighting fascists.
The big thing is, I am not afraid of them. I cautious, I won’t let them harm me. But if I fear them, then they already won.
No, but in a world where we let someone die due to a medical emergency we could have assisted in, then I am not convinced there are “good” people either.
And if there are no “good” people, then what are we even fighting for?
No. Do not help them. Ever. Let them watch as their fellow brown shirt convulses, until he doesn’t.
They let Good die, even going so far as to bar a medical professional from rendering aid.
The humane thing to do is let them suffer in their final moments. Let’s hope more agents have “medical episodes”.
This was the right move. One agent doesn’t make a material difference, letting him die wouldn’t have impeded ICE one bit. In the bigger picture, it has more of an impact as a story.
As a story it could have been an agent dying due to a medical emergency that no one could have done anything about.
This action changes it so that the detainees were caring and compassion and competent. By contrast, it exposes the agencies lack of training, falling to recognize the situation and not knowing what to do and letting detainees have control of the firearm. They showed ICE as incompetent and targetting obviously good folk.
On a smaller scale, it spares them. Who knows, maybe this event gives some of the agents involved some pause about how bad they are being.
No
That sounds like a great storyline, for a cop drama on CBS. One less agent is a net positive, no matter which way you look at it.
Who’s to say that that particular agent doesn’t later blind a protester? Or worse, kill one? Or maybe he just abducts a 5 year, and puts them on a plane to Louisiana?
They just killed another person in Minneapolis. But yeah, let’s patch up the brown shirts.
There is no logical reason to give aid or comfort to the enemy. These aren’t protesters that say mean things that we don’t like. They are a secret police, and their boot’s are on the neck’s of every person who lives in this country.
If you want to start your own club that goes around and makes sure that your oppressors are comfortable in their crusade against liberty, go right on ahead.
Helping them en masse would materially contribute to their capability, but responding to an isolated health event isn’t going to help them, certainly not more than the story as it played out undermined them.
Certainly for the detainees, this was a better outcome. They actually honored their rights after what they did, when they clearly were on a trajectory to deny them contact, and even got released.
Yeah this is going nowhere.
Aiding them in any capacity is a betrayal to all of those whose live’s ICE has taken away, destroyed.
You are not expected to enjoy the moment you let them fall. You could very well be saving an entire family by letting nature take its course.
They don’t acknowledge the humanity of others, so why should they expect those without humanity to show any in return?
When we become them, what’s the point of fighting them any longer?
Marvel ass logic
You do not become a Nazi by letting them die.
The primary issue with them isn’t that they don’t render first aid, it’s that they imprison innocent people in concentration camps and kill them for no reason beyond hate.
You are pushing a false equivalence.
Tell that to all the allied WWII vets who became Nazis by killing them.
We are so far removed from what ICE is going
Letting them die isn’t “becoming them,” it’s allowing them to face the consequences of the rules THEY are imposing. It’s Natural Selection, which they’ve chosen to not believe in. Why should we save them from themselves? Let nature take its course.
Proactive vs reactive, these dipshits are going out of their way to cause suffering and death. Watching them bleed out and die or refusing to render aid or even just offing them yourself isn’t becoming them.
Fun fact during WW2 on the Pacific front allied soldier (American, Australian, New Zealander, Canadian, etc) took to shooting surrendering or injured Japanese troops. This would usually be classified as a war crime, but there are exceptions to that rule in this case since the Japanese soldiers had a tendency of playing dead, trying to kill medics, falsely surrendering, and pulling the pins on their grenades and blowing themselves up.
One does not become their foe by reacting to them accordingly. One becomes their foe by proactively doing the same thing, like the Nazis and Soviets raping and murdering each other and the territories and people between them.
I replied to your other comment, too.
Something seems off about your position.
It’s like watching the Patriot, the scene where the cavalry is at the farm, and they shoot all the recovering revolutionaries. It’s just barbaric.
Civility and society are a social contract, if someone rips theirs up to free themselves from its restrictions, they also remove themselves from its protections.
Civility and society are social contracts. I let the government do its job unimpeded when it is abiding by the contract. When they aren’t, then I don’t.
The reality is that the societal contract broke down a long time ago, and the illusion of safety has been mollifying people since MLK (and likely before). There have always been fascists at the wheel, the only difference now is they are mask off and more indiscriminate.
So my question is, do we vilify every healthcare worker who did more than sit by to help a fascist? Do we demean them for doing what they thought was right? Am I ask them to be judge, jury, and executioner so that the fascists all die off?
Ah. A classic “Timmy hit me first” scenario.
You are allowed proportional force in defending yourself, so if Timmy tries to hit you you are indeed allowed to hit him back insofar as it pertains to stopping harm being done to you or others.
Nothing wrong with that. If Timmy hit me first, Timmy should expect a broken nose. That’s how you deal with bullies. It works every time, perhaps with occasional reinforcement.
It’s nice to think about things like morality, humanity, and diplomacy…in a vacuum. The world is a bastardization of that vacuum.
We know that the fascists will do anything to achieve their goals. They don’t follow court orders, they violate constitutional rights constantly.
When one of the pigs breaks down your door, kidnaps your family, ignores judge’s ruling’s ordering the release of your family, sexually assaults your women and children, chokes the men out unconscious, possibly killing some of them in the process—you would not bat an eye to see one of them squealing in pain.
It wouldn’t make you feel better, but you’d know there is one less feral pig on the streets.
I guess I am not convinced that they are all fascists. You see enemies, I see victims of fascists rulers who have used their fear to warp their minds.
I see fear in them. I see fear in you. I also never said I wouldn’t shoot them. I did say that slaughtering then when they are down is barbaric.
Your position relies on a strawman enemy and a lack of humanity. The very thing you despise in them you become.
It’s wild that we have nearly a hundred years since WW2 and we seem to forget that fear lead to all the atrocities that occured here in the name of fighting fascists.
The big thing is, I am not afraid of them. I cautious, I won’t let them harm me. But if I fear them, then they already won.
Relating this back to the story of the women who saved the pig, do not help them.
It is very simple. Every person who works with ICE is a fascist. There is no denying that. Do you really think there are “good” agents out there?
No, but in a world where we let someone die due to a medical emergency we could have assisted in, then I am not convinced there are “good” people either.
And if there are no “good” people, then what are we even fighting for?