Everybody knows about the backstory, there was a civil war, KMT fled to Taiwan creating two Chinas sort of, maybe, neither recognises the other, whole thing. ROC (Taiwan) ended up transitioning from military rule to a multi-party democracy, while the PRC (mainland China) didn’t do that (they did reform economically, “socialism with Chinese characteristics” and all that, but still a one-party state, not a multi-party democracy). The status quo right now is that Taiwan is in the grey area of statehood where they function pretty much independently but aren’t properly recognised, and both sides of the strait are feeling pretty tense right now.

Taiwan’s stance on the issue is that they would like to remain politically and economically independent of mainland China, retaining their multi-party democracy, political connections to its allies, economic trade connections, etc. Also, a majority of the people in Taiwan do not support reunification with China.

China’s stance on the issue is that Taiwan should be reunified with the mainland at all costs, ideally peacefully, but war is not ruled out. They argue that Taiwan was unfairly separated from the mainland by imperial powers in their “century of humiliation”. Strategically, taking Taiwan would be beneficial to China as they would have better control of the sea.

Is it even possible for both sides to agree to a peaceful solution? Personally, I can only see two ways this could go about that has the consent of both parties. One, a reformist leader takes power in the mainland and gives up on Taiwan, and the two exist as separate independent nations. Or two, the mainland gets a super-reformist leader that transitions the mainland to a multi-party democracy, and maybe then reunification could be on the table, with Taiwan keeping an autonomous status given the large cultural difference (similar to Hong Kong or Macau’s current status). Both options are, unfortunately, very unlikely to occur in the near future.

A third option (?) would be a pseudo-unification, where Taiwan remains as a separate country, but there can be free movement of people between the mainland and Taiwan, free trade, that sort of stuff (sort of like the EU? Maybe?). Not sure if the PRC would accept that.

What are your thoughts on a peaceful solution to the crisis that both sides could agree on?

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    4 hours ago

    Quote me. Quote me where I said they should seek independence right now.

    Easy:

    I don’t know. Am I doing that when I say that Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?

    Done.

    When did I say the poll should be “thrown out”? I’m just giving my reading of it.

    Easy:

    What we can see is that, eliminating the safe, friction-free option of status quo

    Done.

    • Skavau@piefed.social
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      4 hours ago

      I don’t know. Am I doing that when I say that Taiwan should ideally be an independent state because that’s ultimately what they want?

      Where was that “right now” there?

      When did I say the poll should be “thrown out”? I’m just giving my reading of it.

      How is the way I read a poll means I am trying to tell Taiwan what to do?

      What we can see is that, eliminating the safe, friction-free option of status quo

      See above.

      Also, I’m just a random person. Who of note, or of influence is trying to encourage this?

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        How is the way I read a poll means I am trying to tell Taiwan what to do?

        Because “the way you read the poll” is by throwing out the overwhelming majority of responses and focusing exclusively on the people who agree with your position.

        • Skavau@piefed.social
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          4 hours ago

          Again, I’m giving you my opinion. I’m not saying Taiwan should immediately declare independence (it would be obviously very dangerous for them to do this). I’m just saying that it seems likely to me that if China were to back-off, that Taiwan would very quickly officially declare independence and rebrand.

          And again: I’m just a random person. Who of note, or of influence is trying to encourage this?

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            4 hours ago

            I’m just saying that it seems likely to me that if China were to back-off, that Taiwan would very quickly officially declare independence and rebrand.

            That’s not what the polls show and I don’t see how that’s relevant regardless. If space aliens attacked, maybe Taiwan would seek unification with China for mutual protection. But there aren’t any space aliens so who gives a shit? That’s not the world we live in. The polls are based on the world that actually exists, as they should be.

            And again: I’m just a random person. Who of note, or of influence is trying to encourage this?

            Plenty of people in the US ruling class, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. I’m criticizing your position.

            • Skavau@piefed.social
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              4 hours ago

              That’s not what the polls show and I don’t see how that’s relevant regardless. If space aliens attacked, maybe Taiwan would seek unification with China for mutual protection. But there aren’t any space aliens so who gives a shit? That’s not the world we live in.

              I’m telling you how I interpret the polls. Giving you my opinion.

              Plenty of people in the US ruling class, but I don’t see how that’s relevant. I’m criticizing your position.

              Name them openly calling for Taiwan to declare independence.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                4 hours ago

                I’m telling you how I interpret the polls. Giving you my opinion.

                What a fascinating perspective.

                My interpretation of the 2024 US presidential election is that once you exclude all the votes for bourgeois parties, is that The Party For Socialism and Liberation won the election with 171k votes. Three cheers for President De La Cruz!

                Name them openly calling for Taiwan to declare independence.

                Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, for one.

                Again, establish relevance please. Again, I am criticizing your position.

                • Skavau@piefed.social
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                  3 hours ago

                  In that case, my “interpretation” of the 2024 US presidential election is that, once you exclude all the votes for bourgeois parties, The Party For Socialism and Liberation won the election with 171k votes. Three cheers for President De la Cruz!

                  How would you evaluate it seriously? Why would this make sense even as you’re clearly not being serious?

                  Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, for one.

                  What did he say specifically encouraging Taiwan to do this?

                  Again, establish relevance please. Again, I am criticizing your position.

                  You said specifically that people of power in the west are lining up to try and convince Taiwanese politicians to just declare independence asap.

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    3 hours ago

                    How would you evaluate it seriously? Why would this make sense even as you’re clearly not being serious?

                    I don’t see what you’re confused about. If you can throw out 96% of responses in a poll and call it an “interpretation,” then why can’t I throw out 99.88% of votes and call it an interpretation too? Is there a line somewhere between 96% and 99.88%?

                    You said specifically that people of power in the west

                    Quote me where I said this.

                    What did he say specifically encouraging Taiwan to do this?

                    “Taiwan is a sovereign and free country.” A clear and direct deviation from the status quo of strategic ambiguity.