Sorry to ask, I don’t want to seem ignorant but I really don’t get it. Like, I saw a post on someone identifying as Norwegian-American and I thought of what another commenter said that most people don’t do the stuff Americans do and how most people will see them as American. But I see many Americans strongly identify with a culture they were raised with. Is it still okay for them to do that? What’s the point?
The US population never got to unify as one people with a common culture, so they identify with their DNA to have something similar to what most people in the world has, a place, a culture and millennia of history you are an ingrained part of. There was political will to try uniting the population in the first half of the 1900’s, but their racial focus kinda was a fork in the road for that whole project.
So while the rest of us see them as solely US-ians, we have to suffer through the “I’m 3,17 % Bohemian” bullshit. And it is really stupid, but I do understand where it comes from.
I am of Italian descent but also Italian-American. Those are different things in my mind. Like, I am learning Italian and learning about Italian culture today (my father and I are trying to get our Italian citizenship although it’s a long road). That is separate from the Italian diaspora that my father’s family settled into as immigrants in the US. That community has it’s own cultural practices and nuances that may be roughly sourced from the same place as my ancestors from Italy, but they aren’t the same. I am proud of both, I see no reason to discard the Italian-American label just because Italians might make fun of me. I don’t pretend being Italian-American makes me Italian or able to speak for Italians or Italy.
That said, my mother’s side of the family is decidedly more WASPy and while I am no less accepting of that heritage, I see no real reason to deliberately celebrate it. It’s the dominant “culture” in the US and in no danger of being assimilated away. It may just be that those of us who came from a minority community (no matter how distant that status is from the present) feel driven to protect it on some level.
Slightly off topic, but does anyone have experience with there being a tradition of researching family histories and genealogy among later generation immigrant families in nations outside the US?
I’ve had multiple friends and relations start researching their family history with the intent of finding the first ancestor to immigrate to the US and their country of origin. As some others have said, I don’t believe these people consider themselves to truly be a part of that culture, but it’s a fun bit of personal trivia and some fresh new traditions to explore, so it gets talked about.
I wonder if that’s universal, or if it could be more of a phenomenon in the US and contributing to what the OP is observing.
I think people make fun of it because to a non-American it comes across as deeply insecure. The trope is that the USA has no history of its own and so its people latch onto the smallest scraps of heritage via ancestry as a way to give themselves some cultural context and cachet.
I don’t think it’s invalid - in many cases the ancestry is genuine, even if distant and/or fractional. If it helps them find meaning or feel connected to something then I’ve got no issue with it.
The issues only really arise IMO if someone starts weaponising that ancestry or insisting they now have the authority to speak for a people they have no tangible connection to.
I was always proud to from the USA up until W and the Iraq war. My pride has been flagging ever since.
Having said that, to find out what it means to be US American, one has to know one’s heritage. This, of course, will be different for each individual but my heritage is one of the most common, that being ancestors from the British Isles and Germany. That does not diminish, in my mind, the contributions of other cultures. Those other cultures, particularly African and Spanish, help contribute to making me now different from my British/German heritage, thus American. There are many of my heritage who want to pretend other influences don’t exist. They forget … E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many One.
You don’t tend to see this behaviour in other OECD nations which is why its so weird.
It is a uniquely American thing to harp on about their culture… that they’ve never lived in.
That’s actually pretty ignorant and judgemental. That statement sounds so MAGA.
Setting aside the U.S.'s current political disposition for the moment.
The U.S. has always been a huge melting pot of different peoples of the world. A lot of those people would stay together, creating little islands of culture all over.
They would celebrate their culture and often celebrate other people’s culture along with them. (I have been told that the U.S. celebrates Cinco De Mayo way more than Mexico ever did.)
A lot of it comes from asserting your own culture identity against this broad mixing pot. Or even asserting it against active suppression. Some of it is evolved tradition over the generations.
Many people value their ancestral roots and like to celebrate it.
Saying America has no history is so ethnocentric.
The U.S. is made up of immigrants from the entire globe. The U.S.'s history shares its history with every other nation of the world.
I love that there are so many different festivals, from different cultures, all the time. Houston is in Texas, but it is a massively diverse city. We named a highway after a Sikh policeman who had been murdered in the line of duty. The city (county maybe) even lets us sell fireworks for Diwali. There are Greek festivals all over. (Yes it has a terribly racist past, and it is considered the human trafficking capital of the U.S., fuck you big oil.)
I have never had someone introduce themselves to me as a <culture>-American. But plenty of people will talk about their ancestral culture if you ask.
I guess if you live in a monoculture, then you may not value that culture identity as strongly as you might when your ancestral culture is just one of a thousand.
Diversity is king. If someone wants to let their cultural freak flag fly, who the hell are you to judge?
That statement sounds so MAGA.
Not a statement, it’s an observation.
Do you always start out by straw manning a persons political beliefs? What an oddly blue haired ring nose wearing gay anarchist thing to do.
Tap for spoiler
Its a joke
The U.S. has always been a huge melting pot of different peoples of the world.
The US is not unique in its diversity amongst OECD nations and this behaviour stands out.
If someone wants to let their cultural freak flag fly, who the hell are you to judge?
Who the fuck are you to stop people from commenting on this uniquely American oddity?
But it isn’t uniquely American.
Judges others
Gets mad when others do the same to them
What an astrology karen thing to say
The trope is that the USA has no history of its own and so its people latch onto the smallest scraps of foreign heritage as a way to give themselves some cultural context and cachet.
I think this is fine in a vacuum but what gets really annoying is the simultaneous claim of being superior to any other nations and ignorance of the cultures they claim to be
Another issue that can arise is people feeling more connected to some fractional heritage that they like, as a way to divide thier local community more and feel separate e.g. “Arian heritage”…
One of my best friend’s future in-laws identify as Italian-american but have barely left their home state. Not malicious and they aren’t bigoted about that, but they act like they’re direct deceandeants when they’re a generation or two removed, which is annoying at worst. I won’t be critical of someone identifying with their heritage as long as it doesn’t disparage anyone else. They do make solid raviolis which is nice.
Regarding those from “The Old World” this phenomenon isn’t unique to the USA. Most other countries in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa exhibit tying ancestry to not being of the land since time immemorial. It just happens to be that Americans tend to produce the most cultural discussion about it in volume, especially in the English language.
The big thing is recognizing that the culture of the land doesn’t match the culture of your “people”. It can be tough to reconcile that, especially if someone is from a mix of different origins.
My heritage is from multiple diaspora that have survived being exiled from their home numerous times. Denying that heritage for my nationality seems disrespectful of my ancestors. Especially since the american empire was a big part of that generational trauma.
Thanks , IDK why people are so against ___-Americans when they were raised with stuff from the culture
Look, I’m of Scottish descent, but I’m not Scottish. It’s been generations since anyone in my family has seen scotch heather in anything but a photograph. I never went to a Scottish school, sat in a Scottish pew, and while I can understand the Scots dialect I couldn’t speak it to save my life. I have a few fragments of old traditions, some of which no one in Scotland even practices anymore. Sure, I like a nice dram of whisky or black pudding as much as the next guy, but I also enjoy sushi, that doesn’t make me Japanese either. So why would it make any sense to refer to myself as a Scottish-American? If I were a recent import or maybe 2nd generation, sure it makes some sense, but I don’t have the foggiest clue what life in Scotland is like. If you dropped me in Glasgow or Aberdeen without GPS in my pocket and asked me to find my way around I wouldn’t know where to start. So what gives me the right to call myself Scottish anything? Because my family held on to a few comforting traditions from a Scotland that’s been gone for more than a century?
There’s a very old trope that the land seeps into your blood over time and no matter how far you roam from it, it calls you back, and shapes your character. It’s from the same school of thought that coined the phrase “Blood and Soil” and murdered people in gas chambers. It’s not a philosophy I have much attachment to, in spite of the fact I have one of those in my bloodline too.
Ohhh, I get it
I mean, the american expirement is pretty new. Most other countries dont seem to have the same levels of immigrant and indigenous cultures. It makes sense that it seems odd to them. But many people here are from all over the word and they usually keep some form of tradition alive as a way to connect with that.
Actually most other places have far more indigenous culture, because the dominant socio-economic group is the indigenous people of that place. The existence of an indigenous minority is pretty unique.
I suppose what i mean is non normative indegenous culture. The predominant culture in the US is western pop culture. So indegenous cultures have to fight a lot harder to maintain their identity here; as do many immigrant families.
Ahh, understandable. :)
I call myself “Chinese American” because I was born in China and I can speak Cantonese, Mandarin, and can read basic Chinese.
Especially online because otherwise people just be white defaultist and assume you’re white. And I wanna be unique (while sharing the common national identity as an American).
I feel better about myself being unique.
Its also about self-esteem… I mean I get “jokes” thown at me all the time for being Asian looking… might as well just lean into it…
ohhhh, makes sense
Some communities are closer to their culture than others. I sometimes call myself Irish American but I didn’t grow up with Irish culture and know nothing about it.
l fantasize about moving to Ireland mostly because I hate America and want out, knowing that it’d be a big culture shock if I left and I may not get accepted because I’m American.
Some families are much more connected to their home country than others. Americans 3rd gen and beyond often have very little connection. The issue is where Irish culture is distinctly different from Irish-American culture, Italian different than Italian-American. You can’t go “back” to the home country and fit in. It’s not the same.
Irish-American is distinct from Italian-American too though and I think that has a lot to do with why some Americans consider it part of their identity.
I’m Appalachian. Yes I’m of Scotch-Irish descent and my family name is most definitely English, but I’m Appalachian. My forbears were rednecks and communists. And bigots. And public servants. And settlers (murderers of many indigenous peoples). And Union soldiers. In my ancestry are victims of rape and rapists. I’m most comfortable in Northern Scotland and Southern Scandinavia. The land calls out to something ancient within me. I want to raise sheep and live above a barn. My tribe is nebulous, and I’m at peace with that. Some are not.
The United States is a melting pot, and personal identity is both exalted and at the same time completely irrelevant. You’re “American” first, and everything else second. Some people cling to a tribe or identity to call their own. Since no one in Europe knows what a “Packer” is, they’ll say they’re Norwegian-American. They want recognition of their tribe. They want to identify with something bigger, and have the security of others of their tribe when they travel. They want connection. I would hazard that most who put their foot in their mouth while traveling don’t realize the faux pas. They think it’s a way of connecting with others from another place.
“Oh! You’re Italian? Hey, so am I! My mom makes the best Fettuccine Alfredo. I love cannoli. Do you like pizza? Please see me. Please accept me. I’m alone here and no one will riff with me. I’m trying to connect. I’m trying to meet you halfway. I’m trying…”
There’s a fine line between celebrating the history of your ancestors and performative cultural appropriation. Being interested in ones ancestors is one thing - swearing that you’re ‘fiery’ because of your Irish ancestry when you’re 3 or 4 generations removed from that ancestry is a bit weird at best.
I think the US does have a culture all its own - some of the world’s best authors, musicians, artists etc are from the US. It does puzzle me that some US folks are so desperate to claim deep cultural ties when they have a pretty good culture already, formed in part from those ancestors.
So I’m not American but I do identify as Mexican-Canadian. I am an immigrant so for me that is a very important distinction.
In my perspective though, I wouldn’t ever want to make fun of someone for identifying as whatever. However, there is something about the cultural aspect of it that bothers me. If you are many generations in and have, for all intents and purposes, lost your connection with the hyphenated part of your culture, and don’t have any intent to learn with or contect with that culture other than by name, it does feel a bit preformative. If someone is actively reconnecting with their culture and trying to learn/understand more about their heritage, then it’s fine IMO, otherwise it seems disrespectful/appropriative. You can just as easily say “my ancestry is _____”, without claiming it as your culture.
If you are many generations in and have, for all intents and purposes, lost your connection with the hyphenated part of your culture, and don’t have any intent to learn with or contect with that culture other than by name, it does feel a bit preformative
i.e., an american saying “i’m italian” even though they don’t speak a word of it and have never been there, but grandma has an italian name
I’m English, but neither of my parents are - I’d never claim to be English+(X/Y) though. I’d likely get the shit kicked out of me for just thinking one of them (maybe both for different reasons).
But irrespective of these 2 generations, people have been living where i do for far longer than England has been a country. Just since the Romans left there have been major influxes of Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Normans, Vikings, probably some others . . . not to mention many waves of smaller scale immigration and emigration. It’s no lie when they say ‘the English all are bastards’ - mostly Franco-germanic-scandinavian mongrels.
Most European countries have populations that far outlive the current set of lines on the map or the current flags. And most have been involved with a lot of migration. And most people will have ancestors died on the losing side of one war or another or for a country that is no longer there, or a dividing line that has long since moved.
It just seems odd to me to keep track of all that stuff in any specific sense.
