Tankies will always oppose any movement that takes away their ability to talk shit about it.
They don’t care about progress or tangible action. They only talk about those things to take steam out of any momentum that’s building, but when tangible action comes they talk shit about that too because now they can’t talk shit about it, and that’s unacceptable to them!
Some people just want to complain. It’s like the people who say Disney isn’t making original movies and then shit on original movies before they’re even released
Ml user here, I think it’s rad. Gonna radicalize the libs at my local protest with May Day history ¯_( ツ)_/¯
Like, I think the No Kings protests, for instance, while great at getting people out, struggle to give those people direction, beyond the big protest.
But any good Socialist, Communist, Anarchist, [insert preferred flavour of leftist] will know that you go where the masses are. And if the masses are at a big protest, then you go to the big protest to recruit, educate, and even just network with cool people and orgs.
So I’m Wiccan, and while if pulls from things, and arises out of an occult millieu much older than it, Wicca is essentially a modern religion. The Wheel of The Year, the Wiccan liturgical calendar, is newer than the labor movement’s establishment of May 1st as Intl. Worker’s Day.
Beltane, was originally a Gaelic holiday Marking the midway point between the Spring Equinox and the summer solstice (and its not even what the Holiday was originally called in Wicca btw).
It makes sense that a general spirit of resistance would come from working class Irish and Scottish who sat on the periphery of English Industrializations benefits, and were more easily exploited as cheap labor. And it makes sense that they might latch onto an existing springtime festival as a date for a radical workers holiday. Spring means new birth, perhaps even of a world beyond Capitalism.
Also some important labor movement events happened around that time of year, most famously the Haymarket Affair, Which had a huge impact on the son selection of May 1st.
So I don’t think it’s at all bad that international Workers day, the culture of a historically colonized people, and pagan springtime holidays, both ancient and modern, all coincide and intersect. In fact I think it’s a beautiful thing.
It’s like looking at Pride month, and Juneteenth in the US, and asking why gay people stole June from black people. They didn’t. Two oppressed people groups in the US experienced seismic events in the history of their liberation during that month. And that’s sick as hell!
There are certainly some .ml users that are genuine, thinking beings who actually care about leftism and progress.
That doesn’t change the fact that the majority of .ml users we encounter on the rest of the fediverse are unthinking, uncritical, insufferable, sealioning hypocrites, edgelords, and keyboard warriors, who do more damage to leftism as a whole than anything else.
Many of them I’m tempted to believe are corpo-fascist plants attempting to derail and discredit leftism as a whole. Some of them may even conceivably be bots from troll farms in other authoritarian surveillance states who just happen to be anti-west without actually being any better than western nations or even leftist in anything but name (and sometimes not even that!)
So yes, you’re a counterexample, and thank you for being a reasonable person and contributing to the leftist cause. But that doesn’t change anybody’s opinion about .ml as a whole, and there are plenty of other leftist instances you might consider switching to if you ever get tired of the association.
Like, I think the No Kings protests, for instance, while great at getting people out, struggle to give those people direction, beyond the big protest.
This post is literally about the No Kings protest movement organizing a general strike. That wouldn’t have been possible without the widely successful protests. How is that not “giving people direction beyond the protest”?
How is that not “giving people direction beyond the protest”?
Its definitely a good step in the right direction, don’t get me wrong.
But it’s not like the No Kings organizers are seeding Amazon warehouses, embedding themselves into the existing labor movement, mobilizing the people going to these protests to join, start, or get active in their own unions. They’re not training disciplined activist cadre.
All things which would bolster the goal of a general strike, and allow something like that to be sustained for a longer period of time.
Without that stuff, it’s just turning the masses out for a big one day March around the block. Which is fine, and I’m not ragging on it, but there needs to be more, and I just think that more is going to come from the more radical groups attending these protests who have deeper organizational ties and skills, as opposed go the No Kings organizers themselves.
How do you know they’re not doing those things? I’m sure anyone who’s engaging in those activities is doing it on the DL. At this point in time, too much publicity can do more harm than good.
One of the best ways to think about No Kings is as a networking event. If your org isn’t showing up and taking names and numbers, you can’t complain that it’s not benefiting you.
and I just think that more is going to come from the more radical groups attending these protests
Then tell those radical groups to quit complaining on the internet about how it doesn’t do anything, get off their asses, and go to the protests to network and recruit.
But make sure they don’t co-opt it to taint its public image; its strength is in its widespread support. Keep adjacent and tangential activities on the DL, and maintain plausible deniability vis a vie any connection between your group and the larger movement.
who have deeper organizational ties and skills, as opposed go the No Kings organizers themselves.
If they have deeper organizational ties and skills, then why aren’t they doing anything, while No Kings mobilizes millions of people nationwide?
The “No Kings organizers” is a misnomer, because it’s not a centrally organized movement. It doesn’t have an established hierarchy or leadership structure. It’s a quiltwork of civil sector orgs and labor orgs. It’s the very people and groups who you’re saying should be involved. Is someone missing? That’s on them for not showing up.
Because I’m active in my local organizing circles, and I see this stuff.
The No Kings folks aren’t doing that. Folks in various socialist orgs like DSA and PSL are doing that work. Folks in the unions, especially folks just starting unions, or are in reform movements within larger unions, like the UFCW or the Teamsters, are doing that work. Hell, the punk kids in our local Food not Bombs chapter always show up to pickets with food.
The folks organizing the No Kings protests themselves are not doing this kind of nitty gritty organizing work. They’re in a wildly different sphere. And my friends across the country mostly echo this.
That’s not to say they’re useless, or that people shouldn’t go, they should. But what I am saying is that the real, long term work, that sustains movements, is being done elsewhere. The more serious organizing that is happening at No Kings, happens not because of the No Kings folks themselves, but because more established, more radical groups are going and doing entryism and political agitation.
I don’t mind a big protest march, I’ve helped organize a couple (much smaller obviously lol) protests myself. But you also need to build power and leverage beyond that too. That could be through labor organizing, mutual aid, etc. But you gotta do more than “Raise your fists and March around, but don’t take what you need” as the Rage Against The Machine song says.
The “No Kings folks” are decentralized and leaderless. The other circles and orgs and people who you say are showing up to the protests and taking names, they are the No Kings folks, just as much as everyone else who showed up to make their voices heard.
It’s kinda weird to say “the No Kings folks aren’t doing anything” when they’ve so far successfully organized three multi-million-people nationwide events. Especially when you then go on to say that your friends and other groups are showing up to the protests and doing networking there.
Do you not see the connection? The No Kings protests created that platform, without which your friends and all those groups would be missing all that outreach.
Don’t pretend other people aren’t doing work, when they’re only doing different work. Whatever activities you’re doing, it’s not the only “real” resistance. And it would be impossible to wage a collective resistance if every cell thought of themselves as the only ones doing any real work, and viewed everyone else as slackers.
There was lots of organizing going on at the NK protest I was at yesterday. People need to get off the Internet and go actually do stuff and interact with others.
Yeah, I’m tired of all these defeatist scabs in the comments trying to detract and derail. It’s giving me a headache. Time to take a break from the internet for a while…
I bet this influx of plants and trolls is specifically timed to coincide with the No Kings protests…
Lemmy Users: “Waah, protests don’t do anything, wake me when there’s a general strike.”
No Kings: “We’re doing a general strike.”
Lemmy Users: “Oh, fuck, shit, I didn’t… Um… WELL SCREW YOU, YOU’RE PROBABLY GOING TO DO IT WRONG ANYWAY.”
“No, not like that!”
Tankies will always oppose any movement that takes away their ability to talk shit about it.
They don’t care about progress or tangible action. They only talk about those things to take steam out of any momentum that’s building, but when tangible action comes they talk shit about that too because now they can’t talk shit about it, and that’s unacceptable to them!
Some people just want to complain. It’s like the people who say Disney isn’t making original movies and then shit on original movies before they’re even released
Ml user here, I think it’s rad. Gonna radicalize the libs at my local protest with May Day history ¯_( ツ)_/¯
Like, I think the No Kings protests, for instance, while great at getting people out, struggle to give those people direction, beyond the big protest.
But any good Socialist, Communist, Anarchist, [insert preferred flavour of leftist] will know that you go where the masses are. And if the masses are at a big protest, then you go to the big protest to recruit, educate, and even just network with cool people and orgs.
Are you including Beltane and Wiccan Sabbaths that got coopted by the labor movement or…
So I’m Wiccan, and while if pulls from things, and arises out of an occult millieu much older than it, Wicca is essentially a modern religion. The Wheel of The Year, the Wiccan liturgical calendar, is newer than the labor movement’s establishment of May 1st as Intl. Worker’s Day.
Beltane, was originally a Gaelic holiday Marking the midway point between the Spring Equinox and the summer solstice (and its not even what the Holiday was originally called in Wicca btw).
It makes sense that a general spirit of resistance would come from working class Irish and Scottish who sat on the periphery of English Industrializations benefits, and were more easily exploited as cheap labor. And it makes sense that they might latch onto an existing springtime festival as a date for a radical workers holiday. Spring means new birth, perhaps even of a world beyond Capitalism.
Also some important labor movement events happened around that time of year, most famously the Haymarket Affair, Which had a huge impact on the son selection of May 1st.
So I don’t think it’s at all bad that international Workers day, the culture of a historically colonized people, and pagan springtime holidays, both ancient and modern, all coincide and intersect. In fact I think it’s a beautiful thing.
It’s like looking at Pride month, and Juneteenth in the US, and asking why gay people stole June from black people. They didn’t. Two oppressed people groups in the US experienced seismic events in the history of their liberation during that month. And that’s sick as hell!
Great idea, honestly
There are certainly some .ml users that are genuine, thinking beings who actually care about leftism and progress.
That doesn’t change the fact that the majority of .ml users we encounter on the rest of the fediverse are unthinking, uncritical, insufferable, sealioning hypocrites, edgelords, and keyboard warriors, who do more damage to leftism as a whole than anything else.
Many of them I’m tempted to believe are corpo-fascist plants attempting to derail and discredit leftism as a whole. Some of them may even conceivably be bots from troll farms in other authoritarian surveillance states who just happen to be anti-west without actually being any better than western nations or even leftist in anything but name (and sometimes not even that!)
So yes, you’re a counterexample, and thank you for being a reasonable person and contributing to the leftist cause. But that doesn’t change anybody’s opinion about .ml as a whole, and there are plenty of other leftist instances you might consider switching to if you ever get tired of the association.
This post is literally about the No Kings protest movement organizing a general strike. That wouldn’t have been possible without the widely successful protests. How is that not “giving people direction beyond the protest”?
Its definitely a good step in the right direction, don’t get me wrong.
But it’s not like the No Kings organizers are seeding Amazon warehouses, embedding themselves into the existing labor movement, mobilizing the people going to these protests to join, start, or get active in their own unions. They’re not training disciplined activist cadre.
All things which would bolster the goal of a general strike, and allow something like that to be sustained for a longer period of time.
Without that stuff, it’s just turning the masses out for a big one day March around the block. Which is fine, and I’m not ragging on it, but there needs to be more, and I just think that more is going to come from the more radical groups attending these protests who have deeper organizational ties and skills, as opposed go the No Kings organizers themselves.
How do you know they’re not doing those things? I’m sure anyone who’s engaging in those activities is doing it on the DL. At this point in time, too much publicity can do more harm than good.
One of the best ways to think about No Kings is as a networking event. If your org isn’t showing up and taking names and numbers, you can’t complain that it’s not benefiting you.
Then tell those radical groups to quit complaining on the internet about how it doesn’t do anything, get off their asses, and go to the protests to network and recruit.
But make sure they don’t co-opt it to taint its public image; its strength is in its widespread support. Keep adjacent and tangential activities on the DL, and maintain plausible deniability vis a vie any connection between your group and the larger movement.
If they have deeper organizational ties and skills, then why aren’t they doing anything, while No Kings mobilizes millions of people nationwide?
The “No Kings organizers” is a misnomer, because it’s not a centrally organized movement. It doesn’t have an established hierarchy or leadership structure. It’s a quiltwork of civil sector orgs and labor orgs. It’s the very people and groups who you’re saying should be involved. Is someone missing? That’s on them for not showing up.
Because I’m active in my local organizing circles, and I see this stuff.
The No Kings folks aren’t doing that. Folks in various socialist orgs like DSA and PSL are doing that work. Folks in the unions, especially folks just starting unions, or are in reform movements within larger unions, like the UFCW or the Teamsters, are doing that work. Hell, the punk kids in our local Food not Bombs chapter always show up to pickets with food.
The folks organizing the No Kings protests themselves are not doing this kind of nitty gritty organizing work. They’re in a wildly different sphere. And my friends across the country mostly echo this.
That’s not to say they’re useless, or that people shouldn’t go, they should. But what I am saying is that the real, long term work, that sustains movements, is being done elsewhere. The more serious organizing that is happening at No Kings, happens not because of the No Kings folks themselves, but because more established, more radical groups are going and doing entryism and political agitation.
I don’t mind a big protest march, I’ve helped organize a couple (much smaller obviously lol) protests myself. But you also need to build power and leverage beyond that too. That could be through labor organizing, mutual aid, etc. But you gotta do more than “Raise your fists and March around, but don’t take what you need” as the Rage Against The Machine song says.
The “No Kings folks” are decentralized and leaderless. The other circles and orgs and people who you say are showing up to the protests and taking names, they are the No Kings folks, just as much as everyone else who showed up to make their voices heard.
It’s kinda weird to say “the No Kings folks aren’t doing anything” when they’ve so far successfully organized three multi-million-people nationwide events. Especially when you then go on to say that your friends and other groups are showing up to the protests and doing networking there.
Do you not see the connection? The No Kings protests created that platform, without which your friends and all those groups would be missing all that outreach.
Don’t pretend other people aren’t doing work, when they’re only doing different work. Whatever activities you’re doing, it’s not the only “real” resistance. And it would be impossible to wage a collective resistance if every cell thought of themselves as the only ones doing any real work, and viewed everyone else as slackers.
There was lots of organizing going on at the NK protest I was at yesterday. People need to get off the Internet and go actually do stuff and interact with others.
Yeah, I’m tired of all these defeatist scabs in the comments trying to detract and derail. It’s giving me a headache. Time to take a break from the internet for a while…
I bet this influx of plants and trolls is specifically timed to coincide with the No Kings protests…
You are not doing anything, you can’t even get something simple like a protest right