/e/OS is not fully degoogled, as DNS connectivity checks, hardware attestation provisioning, and eSIM activation all go through Google.
It is often many weeks or months behind on security updates, especially in the WebView, which makes it easy to exploit.
It doesn’t support bootloader locking on many devices, and if you lock the bootloader on a phone that does support it, it could brick if /e/OS is on an older security patch than the stock ROM was.
It doesn’t use a lot of the hardening in GrapheneOS such as hardened_malloc which prevents memory corruption exploits, even if the hardware supports it.
And finally, /e/OS’s text-to-speech sends what you say to OpenAI, despite local options being available.
If you want a properly secure Android phone, the best option is GrapheneOS, however it only supports Pixel phones and future Motarola phones due to its high security requirements.
If you can’t get a Pixel then iOS in lockdown mode is the next best option, however if you can’t replace your phone, LineageOS is much worse than Graphene although it is still much better than /e/.
This is honeslty a shameful post. A personal rant with just a nasty agenda
People or projects attacking other privacy focused projects working on good faith intent to help us escape the duopoly are just sad. If a project doesn’t fit your personal needs, so be it, move on
As a whole we need as many of these projects to succeed & elevate as possible. Shooting at others because you got your feelings hurt elsewhere is childish and self-defeating for all. Last thing we need is creating a monopoly of privacy focused options
The reason I wrote my post is because there are better alternatives, like Graphene if you have a Pixel and can accept sandboxed Play services, or LineageOS which is less secure but works on many more phones and supports MicroG.
/e/ is very insecure compared to those, and it is likely easy for someone who has bought a used Cellebrite to get into it and make your lockscreen useless.
As someone who bought a Murena FairPhone 5 with /e/OS preinstalled because I had the option to pay a reasonable price for a decent phone that isn’t Google branded, and have been enjoying the experience with it for a while now, I don’t think I’m going to fall for that very obvious rage bait that’s been copy-pasted from an aggressive forum post.
I’ll give GrapheneOS my attention when it works on more than one phone. I hear Motorola is building a second phone for it to be compatible with.
I’m using a stick FP 4 and am really happy about it, I just try to lock down the android bloat from time to time. My wife has a murena Teracube. After changing the launcher, she is really happy with the software, but the hardware is hot garbage, so she plans to get a new one soon.
Our idea was the FP4, because I have good experiences with it, you still get spare parts and it’s comparable cheap.
Do you know whether there was anywhere a bit jump in performance from FP4 to 5?
I love my FP4, but my manager just bought himself a FP6 and… I’m envious! It seems ti scratch almost every itch I have with FP4
(screen draws too much power and isn’t bright enough in summer, phone is a bit too large, etc.)
Pity my FP4 won’t stop working anytime soon.
(Actually joking, at almost 4 years, no phone has ever survived this long in my dangerous hands, and I’m so happy about that).
I’d give FP6 serious thought. On the other hand, maybe you can get some great bargain on a used FP4 (FP4 isn’t sold new anymore).
I still see FP4 in the Fairphone store on Amazon, so can’t be to bad. Is like 200€ while the new one is north of 600€ (don’t remember the exact price). But yeah, looking into the used market might make sense. Ty
tbh they’re on the FairPhone 6 now, so it might be worth taking another look if you’re approaching time to upgrade. :)
I know, in getting old… ;)
I had a terracube. It litterally broke apart in my hands. The glue for the screen stopped working. And i tried to get it repaired only to be told they didnt support the first phone anymore. After less than two years.
I now have a fairphone 4. Much better device!
There are dozens of hardware issues with that phone. Really a shame
/e/OS is not fully degoogled, as DNS connectivity checks, hardware attestation provisioning, and eSIM activation all go through Google.
They are working on some of this, at least eSIM activation. Also do you have a source for DNS connectivity checks? AFAIK they have used their own for a while
It is often many weeks or months behind on security updates, especially in the WebView, which makes it easy to exploit.
This is a serious problem, however their update speed is comparable to a lot of default Roms
It doesn’t support bootloader locking on many devices, and if you lock the bootloader on a phone that does support it, it could brick if /e/OS is on an older security patch than the stock ROM was
/e/os supports boot loader relocking on most official devices, however the community builds don’t support it. The bricking part has nothing to do with /e/os, it’s a hardware security feature of some devices. This would happen with any ROM including the official one
And finally, /e/OS’s text-to-speech sends what you say to OpenAI, despite local options being available.
I assume you mean speech-to-text? Anyway the feature is opt in and they have since updated it to include a prompt to inform you about what it will do. Their reasoning for a cloud option was that local options either are bad or have to high ressource usage (important as /e/os supports a lot of underpowered devices). Overall a stupid move, but they adjusted the feature to let users make an informed choice
If you can’t get a Pixel then iOS in lockdown mode is the next best option, however if you can’t replace your phone, LineageOS is much worse than Graphene although it is still much better than /e/.
Lineageos might have quicker updates, though it is even more connected to google, except for not including microg. However a lot of people will need google play services so they will have to install it anyway
Sorry but this sounds again like the typical e/Os bashing from GrapheneOS users.
Those two system are not the same. One is focused on security and the other on privacy.
Yes I know about the issues of e/OS, but it is still better than using Google or Apple.
For me personally I moved cause I don’t want to support american companies. So Graphene was no option, as I would need to give google some money or buy one 2nd hand. But Pixels are still quite expensive compared with others.
Why do you always need to attack other systems, they can coexist. We should be happy people have more options to break free from Big Tech companies.
There is no privacy without security. Android is one of the most widely exploited OSes and every month a dozen or more critical severity vulnerabilities are patched. Being 1-2 months behind on security patches is inexcusable for a privacy project.
Are those vulnerabilities ever exploited? The stats I’m seeing say that 30% of users run outdated Android version. Most attacks are malware apps installed from Play Store and mobile phishing sites. Yes, you have 0-click vulnerabilities but is anyone really setting up spoofed BT devices in public places? I think the risk of getting your phone taken over this way is extremely low, specially if you’re doing basic things like disabling BT when not in use. Tracking on the other hand is extremely common. Most non-open source apps will connect to multiple analytics and tracking APIs. I care more about controlling those connections than about theoretical attack using some 0-day exploit. GrapheneOS doesn’t have good tools to monitor and block trackers. /e/ and iode do.
So you’re excusing lazy patching with improbability? Personally, I wouldn’t bet my privacy and security on a criminal’s lack of motivation.
It’s like eating candy from a bowl in which 5 are poisoned and 5000 are harmless. It’s improbable for you to pick a poisoned candy but because the consequences of choosing wrong are so perilous, I wouldn’t choose at all or choose a bowl with less poisoned candy.
GrapheneOS doesn’t have good tools to monitor and block trackers.
Yes it does. Rethink has (in addition to other awesome features) a local DNS blocklist option which you can configure to automatically block almost all telemetry apps send.
So you’re excusing lazy patching with improbability?
Of course I am. I’m not paranoid. You always prioritize the risks. Looks like you’re worried about highly motivated hackers targeting you specifically. That’s ok, you’re probably basing this on some sensible risk assessment and you concluded that you’re a potential target for state level actors or criminals. Maybe you’re a political activist or just very rich. I’m neither so I’m not really worried about someone targeting me specifically. I’m worried about malware (I don’t install apps from random sources) and phishing (I don’t click on random links). If you’re worried about extremely unlikely attacks you’re either wasting time or treating this as a hobby.
DNS blocklist option which you can configure to automatically block almost all telemetry apps send.
DNS blocklists are not enough. iode and /e/ offer more fine grained control and monitoring. You can permit some connections temporarily or permanently for specific apps only. Not to mention other features GraphenOS is missing like pattern unlock, backups or navigation shortcuts. Sacrificing all this just to be protected from very unlikely attacks is simply not worth it.
Looks like you’re worried about highly motivated hackers targeting you specifically.
Not really, no.
Not patching security vulnerabilities leaves you open to not just targeted attacks but also wide spread attacks, which also use the same exploits that nation states use. Just look at the recent Coruna debacle.
Let me bring another analogy. You live in a town where theft and burglary is rampant. You have a lock on your front door but the lock is based on a legacy design which is not hard to pick. Sure, no one has broken into your home yet but if you keep using an antiquated lock, it’s a matter of when not if. And it’s not like only rich and important people’s houses are broken into. Everybody who’s vulnerable can and eventually will get attacked. If I had to choose between risking burglary and paying a little extra for a better lock, I’d choose the latter.
Maybe you’re a political activist or just very rich.
I don’t have to be a political activist to take measures to protect myself online nor rich to afford a used Pixel.
Sacrificing all this just to be protected from very unlikely attacks is simply not worth it.
To each their own, I guess.
You can permit some connections temporarily or permanently for specific apps only.
So you mean like OpenSnitch? If so, Rethink also has that.
EDIT: grammar
Even coruna was specifically targeting crypto wallets. Some articles say it was a ‘broad scale’ attack but I can’t find any info about how it was distributed. Anyway, if you’re using crypto wallets you have to be more careful. Traditional banking is protected by TFA and very often additionally insured. Again, risk assessment.
Oh, and I tried Rethink but it works as a VPN so you can’t use other VPN apps with it. The app iode has can be used with any other VPN.
I think you might not understand the meanings of privacy and security.
These are two different things, you can have privacy without security and the other way around. Having both is the best case.
As @ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net said, some people care more about all those app trackers rather than have a full secure phone.
If there would be the one solution 100% privacy and security and available for most phones I would instantly use it. But it is not available yet.
If you are happy with Graphene OS good for you, but keep in mind it might not be what everyone is looking for.
I still dont understand /e/OS. Just use LineageOS. It supports all the same devices and doesnt lag as far behind. You can choose to run an insecure OS if you like (see: all Windows 10 users) but definitely don’t recommend it to others.
You cannot have privacy without at least basic security. Targeted attacks are not the most common kind of attack by long shot. Threat actors scan for vulnerable devices and use automated scripts to execute attacks. Android is one of the most exploited targets. With an outdated OS your browser could be exploited and used to get a sandbox escape, possibly chaining it into root escalation. It all depends on the vulnerabilities found and the longer you wait the more likely for the “stars to align” for the perfect attack. Look at CVE-2025-48593 for an example, zero-click RCE. In recent memory there was also a zero-click RCE utilizing specially crafted MMS, meaning an threat actor could send messages to all phone numbers and try the attack in mass.
/e/OS is by far the most behind on updating security patch levels of the AOSP ROMs (at ~2 months), iode is ~1 and everything else is better than those two.
Privacy without security is not real privacy, it is a mirage.
Security without privacy is like a fortress with cameras inside, a known threat (eg. Gapps Android).
Privacy with security is like a fortess with no known threats at all (eg. AOSP with timely security patches).
Privacy without security is like a fortress where some of the locks have rusted through and if someone tries they can open the doors. It is like replacing the walls with cardboard. “No one can spy on me now” you say in your cardboard castle.
As I said good for you, if you found your solution.
So where did I recommend it to others. I just said why I chose it.
I am fine with waiting for the security patches and the comparison to Win10 does not work, as this version does not get any security patches at all anymore.
I will keep sitting in my cardboard fortress and will wait until someone finds me.
I think you replied to the wrong comment but you said the right thing :)
To me it shows me that I replied to the right comment. I just tagged you, as I agreed with what you said in your comment below.
Ok, I guess no one tagged me before. TIL.
Ah, but have you tried IodeOS?
It seems to be LineageOS with some extra preinstalled apps. I doubt it is horrible but there is little reason to pick it over Lineage, especially as Lineage will get security updates a bit sooner and lets you install MicroG as sandboxed user apps instead of system apps.
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OpenAI feature is called Murena Voice to Text, so users don’t know, it’s OpenAI. They use tracking ids in their own update process. They ignore critique.
Graphene is currently only available for Google devices and therefore no alternative.
Lineage contains connections to Google as well.
Recommending iOS is ridicolous.
I just use whisper+ with heliboard. Works perfectly for me. https://f-droid.org/packages/org.woheller69.whisperplus
Murenas statement on the ids used for OTA updates:
For context, and I agree that this feature can be perceived with mixed feelings, especially because it was stupidly called „licence ID“ at the beginning of its implementation, we added it because we suffered from not having good statistics on /e/OS usage.
Of course we are not interested in tracking users at all, but we do want to know how many devices are running this or that build of /e/OS. This is very useful for making some decisions about device support and setting priorities for future development.
Just running statistics on OTA server request logs along with the device model didn’t give good results.
Now, and this is still part of our internal discussions, if we are able to find a way to get good quality stats without this OTA anon-unique identifier, we will consider it.
However, we sincerely believe that this anonID probably has no impact on user privacy (tracking IPs or device fingerprints would probably be much worse).
You can reset the id via ADB:
adb shell settings put secure ota_anon_hash <new value>
Good thing no one forces you to use it.
To me /e/OS (is it called slashyslash OS or e-OS?) has always been just a worse LineageOS.
I tend to agree but it still remove more google blobs from its codebase.
what has prompted this, I wonder.
Is it already time for the lead GrapheneOS developer’s annual crash out? Where do the years go?
the fun thing is like, I use grapheneOS on a pixel 10 pro, though I find it kind of difficult to fess up to given the cringeworthy escapades of the graphene community.
who pissed in their cereal? does the mere presence of other ROM projects attack their identity in some way? have they claimed to be more secure than GOS and others?
You’re an ungrateful one huh. I wonder if you hate any of the other people who make software you use. 🤔💭
Wow what a leap. note that i said community and not project members, though they’ve not been without controversy either. let’s not pretend micay wasn’t massively problematic,
If I’m not mistaken that guy completely left the project like a while back now. Hasnt been involved in any way for a hot minute
AFAIK he’s just stepped down from being lead dev and still works on the projects. Doesn’t really feel different though because he’s still the only name I’d recognise online.
Wrong about everything + no arguments award 🏅
That may be true but it is still my best option if Google plays idiot like they seem to be planning. My current phone supports e/OS for the record and that’s the only reason I’ve paid it attention.
Ive always thought having options was a good thing.
If I drive a car towards a crosswalk, and people in it scream at me to stop, am I less culpable or more culpable if I have the window rolled down to yell “I’m going to brake in a second, you can trust me”? What if I know my brakes are worn out and I am already braking?
what.
OpenAI feature is called Murena Voice to Text, so users don’t know, it’s OpenAI. They use tracking ids in their own update process. They ignore critique.
Graphene is currently only available for Google devices and therefore no alternative.
Lineage contains connections to Google as well.
Recommending iOS is ridicolous.
You can use Whisper+ with heliboard if you want offline voice to text.
I hate /e/OS for sucking the air out of the room and leaving divestOS stranded. Fuck you /e/OS.
Smart phones are a bad idea. A simple, dumb phone to make calls, texts and occasionally tether your laptop, vehicle tablet to for data access are all you really need. Even the dumb phone should have physical switches for the radios and a battery that can be removed without any tools.
The problem is that real dumb phones are hard to find. Many modern “dumb phones” are actually full android devices, complete with a boatload of spyware that helps keep the cost of the device itself low.
KaiOS is better but that’s a whole linux distro, with similar issues.
Since you mentioned tethering, do you have an example of a non android (or at least one that’s not preloaded with a ton of spyware) dumbphone that supports usb tethering? I am skeptical that a real dumbphone would have this feature.
Nokia 2780 is not bad. It runs KaiOS, supports tethering and 4G cell data. As long as you stick to the script on how you use the device it will have minimal privacy issues IMHO. If that is still not enough you can skip phones altogether and get a 4G dongle for your favorite Linux laptop/tablet and just use a softphone + voip service.
