It absolutely blows my mind that a twice impeached insurrectionist single term president is not only running again but allowed to.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
Don’t forget, he is the leading candidate for that party too…
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both sides have so much in common that, yes, they are the same. it’s not like the choice is vanilla ice cream or a Michelin 8 course meal. it’s vanilla or chocolate
Vanilla and chocolate are the same? Yes, in that they are flavors but are still distinctly different.
I don’t want ice cream at all.
Username checks out.
I like me
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It astounds me that people are both-siding this when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
It’s not vanilla vs chocolate, it’s vanilla vs ground roach and arsenic parfait.
I’m convinced that anyone equivocating them in 2024 either are in denial that the GOP was murdered and fascists are wearing its skin, or are actively promoting apathy in order to help them.
We need to push back hard against this narrative because, when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
>when fascism is on your doorstep, there is no such thing as moral neutrality.
i couldn’t agree more
>anyone equivocating
they don’t need to be equal to both have fascists and both be unacceptable
Please see my reply to your other comment.
I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide. If you’re actually interested in politics, I beg you to learn what this means.
>I’m not convinced you understand what fascism truly is and why it’s so dangerous. It’s not just things we don’t like politically – it’s a specific far right ideology that always leads to genocide.
the absolute irony
>when one side are blatant, actual fascists.
that’s the problem. the actual fascists are on both sides.
Please provide some examples.
I’m very interested in seeing the Democrats who are making overwhelming displays of nationalism that attract actual fascists (which democratic rallies are full of Nazi t-shirts and waving Nazi flags?).
Which Democrats are making thinly-veiled threats of genocide, demonising marginalised groups, and openly calling for concentration camps?
Do you have examples of Democrats banning books and passing laws that outlaw the teaching of objective history and science? Or at least calling objective reporting fake news, as they funnel their supporters to debunked tabloid outlets instead?
Which Democrats are pushing their religion as the only true authority? Where are Democrats trying to force their religion into social and legal policy?
Which Democrats have been attacking education and the arts as a corrupting and demonic influence on society? Which of them have called for legislation to stop the subversive influence of Sesame Street and Mr Potato head, as a random and hypothetical example?
I’d also love examples of Democrats trying to criminalise women’s rights, to the point that women are turned into walking coffins.
Which Democrats have vowed to jail their political opponents?
Finally, which Democrats have refused to concede elections, claiming they’re rigged and false? Which have tried to undermine public trust in democracy, to the point of telling people voting is pointless?
If you’re going to make a claim like that, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. I can do that for every single point of fascism that my questions are obviously based upon, and I’ll bet you can anticipate my examples without me needing to link them. It’s all very public and open in the GOP.
Final question: does your claim come from an understanding of real fascism, or are you using ‘fascism’ to mean ‘things I don’t like’.
One of those is wrong but relatively benign, and the other always leads to genocide.
(Copied from another post)
The thing is, the 14th Amendment, Section 3 isn’t vague on this point - he IS disqualified:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
Look at the wording - it’s clearly intended to be an automatic disqualification. The only way you could possibly arrive at the conclusion that the Office of the President is exempt from this section is by jumping through frankly absurd and facile semantic hoops.
But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Pointedly, the only way Congress should be involved (per the relevant section) is in rescinding the disqualification.
The Supreme Court is prepared to jump through those hoops. They’ve practiced long and hard for this opportunity.
Clarence Thomas’s Patreon is quite well funded, so it’d be dishonest if he didn’t.
(Also copied from another post)
Well, they’re only appointed for life, and they did somewhat recently vastly broaden the scope of the 2nd Amendment, and political violence is on the rise, so I wouldn’t be shocked if one or more people decided enough is enough and conducted a “citizen’s kinetic impeachment”, as it were.
Regardless of how things ultimately turn out, things are definitely 10/10 fucky, and I absolutely hate it.
Unfortunately the “left” in the US is full of thinky ideologues and very few people of action.
Again it did not pass the 2/3 rule. That is critical to make it lawful. I don’t know why that is so hard to understand.
I get it. Trump is a sedacious bastards. But regardless they have yet to convict him of that in the legal court or within the Senate. Ones of those needs to have happened and it has not.
And by the way it is not uncommon. Was done to Clinton for what amounted to a private matter but again did not pass the Senate and thus it did not effect his access to office. As it shouldn’t have in his case.
It doesn’t require conviction. The amendment is written such that disqualification is automatic.
Plus Trump is a rapist.
Traitor rapist is not the horse I would have expected the gop to hitch their cart to.
But here we are
Christians love him!
He’s also allowed to run again despite declaring victory the last time, meaning that he is ineligible to run by his own reasoning.
We’re available for purchase by the highest bidder!
Right? I mean if justice can be aborted/ sidetracked by a simple appeal, how effective is it? Surely he was found to be liable by a judge, the ruling should stand during the appeal, not be put on hold.
I honestly do not think he will be allowed to take office. I just think things are moving at. Slow pace to make sure things are done correctly.
Probably in some hopes that he will just stop running on his own or something.
But I doubt that he will ever make his way back into office.
Who are these people supporting him, and how can we possibly go on living in the same country with them?
My thoughts exactly.
What the fuck is wrong with the USA?
- The Electoral College (and land based instead of population based representation)
- The Citizens United decision (unlimited money to campaign)
- First Past the Post voting (mathematically determined 2 party extremism)
Not necessarily in that order. Fixing any one would put the country many degrees to the left though.
He hasn’t been convicted of sedation yet and the impeachments did not pass the Senate for removal. Basically that is like an acquittal.
Agree what is wrong with the US but legally it is still up in the air.
convicted of sedation
I thought that was Bill Cosby
Well that too with Trump and Epstein. But I may have meant sedition.
But it shouldn’t still legally be in the air. He’s already been proven to be a traitor.
I agree with that. Shouldn’t still be legally up in the air. Proven in public opinion, sure. Legal proven no.
Basically that is like an acquittal.
Not really. He has still been impeached, it’s just his own party chose not to remove him from office over the impeachment.
Yes we knew that. The point is legally he has been acquitted. Fair or not he has not been officially convicted and thus this can not be used to eliminate him from running for office.
I know people here don’t agree with it. I wish he was convicted myself. But it’s is not grey. It is ‘not really’. Your either convicted or acquitted and he was the latter because that is how the constitution works. Now use your vote should it come to that.
But it isn’t an acquittal, and he has officially been impeached.
It’s more like he was found guilty but then given no punishment at sentencing.
That absolutely is not what impeachments is. Look it up. Impeachments is equivalent to charging someone only. It then basically comes to the house to investigate it and decide if he is guilty. Guilty meaning removed from office. I don’t understand why people do not know this.
Ya I think he is slimy and likely should have been revoved from office. That that takes 2/3 of the Senate vote. But not getting 2/3 of the vote does not mean he is innocent.
As a non-American, I beg you, get rid of Trump. You’re the most powerful country in the world, your election has so much impact outside your borders, we are looking at it and are expecting…
What happens in November ? We don’t know and it’s kinda scary…
As an American, we don’t know either and it’s terrifying.
We’re trying. 60 million of us (about 18%) are mentally defective backward degenerates that hold disproportionate power in our idiotic electoral system. The tyranny of this minority brought you trump.
Most of us know, and are just as terrified as you are. We’re just gerrymandered out of any ability to actually affect the process rationally.
Sorry not most, barely half. A fucktonne of the right still support him.
No, I’m sticking with most. We’re just gerrymandered enough that the smaller group can exert an outsized influence over the rest of us.
I like your optimism but unfortunately cannot share it. Too many IRL experiences to convince me that sane people are anything but a 30% minority nationwide.
I’ve had those experiences too, but the data doesn’t support that conclusion. Far from being the “silent majority,” they’re actually a very loud minority. If our elections were truly fair, they’d never have been given the time of day.
They’re only about a third. That’s not really solace, though. The Nazis only had about 30% support, as did Mussolini. That’s all it takes for fascism to succeed.
As a Canadian, its never been so divided as when the previous president was in power. Are we divided? Yes.
As bad as when Cheeto Dorito was in power? Absolutely not.
We have little say in that. You need to ask pootin.
Yeah I’m so excited to vote for genocide joe over the criminally insane orange.
I’m excited to actually be able to vote in 2028. That’s what I’m voting for.
These names you keep giving politicians… Why?
Is it hatred against career politicians?
A way for people to remember bad things they’ve done?
Is it mostly tongue in cheek?Legitimately curious
Because they aren’t very bright and they need it to be simple. They’ve found a mindless mantra they can recite and, by golly, they’re going to keep saying it.
why is everyone mad that I hate both candidates lol.
I said it pretty clearly, I’m not happy that I have to vote for an incumbent who I didn’t want just because the alternative is objectively worse.
Also because I like calling people funny names.
Look, I get it, you’re unhappy. But maybe take a moment to consider that if your post and Russian propaganda are indistinguishable, something has probably gone wrong.
I’m not calling you Russian propaganda. I’m just saying you’re probably getting downvotes not because you have a “disallowed” opinion. It’s because you’re not showing an awareness for how insanely disproportionate and unhelpful it is to shift a conversation from “let’s not elect a fascist leader” to “Joe Biden sucks.” And the reason why is because the only effect that comment can have is to (1) divert negative attention from Trump and (2) depress enthusiasm for Biden voters who read it.
why is everyone mad that I hate both candidates
I assure you, no one is mad that you hate both sides. They’re “mad” because you oversimplified a ridiculously complicated situation with huge global ramifications, in an attempt to equate both sides because you think holding that position makes you smart and independent…when in reality it is neither smart nor independent.
I didn’t equate both sides though, I said I hate Biden and Trump is objectively worse.
That doesn’t mean I’m not going to vote for him or not vote at all.
My whole point is that I am not looking forward to voting for him knowing that he is much much better than Trump, but that he will not change his policies, which I disapprove of.
Because the average voter is as mature as the average politician, I guess. ‘Of the people’ and all that jazz.
All of the above lol.
Genocide Joe because of his obvious involvement in Gaza and because of his copy paste foreign policy from the Obama administration
Criminally insane orange because he has been criminally charged multiple times, acts insane, and is also orange lol.
It’s just too easy to make fun of them because the two party system heavily restricts your ability to vote for a candidate that you actually want or need.
So every election period always starts off with a candidate who I almost always didn’t want or vote for, and immediately expect nothing from which is usually what happens.
There’s only one group of people that use that name, stop pretending to be moderate.
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Then go to moscow I’m sure they’ll make a place for you at the troll farms.
uh what?
You’re either voting for America or Gilead.
Blessed be the fruit
Under his orange skin
ಠ_ಠ
I think that argument might convince people to vote for trump tbh. More and more it looks like the US had way too much power and uses it for evil and maybe voting for the dude that will cause its downfall will be the best thing for the rest of the world
As a part of “the rest of the world” I say you clearly : no. I don’t want Trump nor Gilead. I prefer corporate America other that.
Genocide and climate apocalypse, or genocide and climate apocalypse.
This is not ending with a Biden win. If Trump loses there are others waiting to take up the mantle. People that will look better (not physically) on paper so to speak. They will appeal to the more Traditional conservative, the mainstream.
A Trump loss will force MAGA back, after a bit of grumbling and violence, then they will become quiet. Not all of them. But the next fight will be 2026, 2028, 2030, etc. Though my belief thinks a better than Trump candidate will definitely be 2028 the next presidential election.
This Insurrection isn’t over for them…just like the Civil War never ended for them. They have patience.
We must remain vigilant and push for more equality for all.
The impossible needs to happen. We need constitutional amendments to further define and protect our democracy. But that would require those in power to be willing to close the gaps to limit individuals and party power, and I think very few in state houses (states have to ratify amendments) or Congress want to do that. It’s like the poor man who wants to protect the rich man’s wealth from taxes because someday he will be rich too.
A constitutional amendment will never occur again, because it is an incredibly high bar to overcome even when the legislative process in the country isn’t as dysfunctional.
One party would need a super majority in both houses of Congress, where the bar is 2/3 but you’re probably going to need at least ten more than that to prevent the amendment from being scrapped by a contingent of Joe Liebermans.
Then that same party will need a majority in the state legislatures of 38 states to ratify the amendment.
It’s just not going to happen.
Completely agree.
Although if we could get away from the partisan political mess we have now and get back to when members would work together instead of punishing them for crossing the isle there could be a chance. Maybe in 40 or 50 years, but that’s still a chance.
https://www.vox.com/2015/4/23/8485443/polarization-congress-visualization
A house divided and all that.
I would say less patience and more persistent.
You also need to look around you and realize that you have been governed by authoritarian fascists for the past 100 years continuously
So then do nothing and not participate right?
That’s your stupid conclusion
What are you even fucking offering then?
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It’s not the scary foreigners. It’s “our” rich people who have bought out the system and molded it to their liking. Capitalism always turns into fascism as the system crumbles under its own weight unless something drastic occurs.
Funny story, it’s both
The good news is that a bunch of Trumpets are now convicted felons. Those idiots really thought the police were on their side.
To be fair I think a lot of police would have been on their side if they thought cheetolini had a chance at his soft coup.
FAR to many hard right cops
They are until they get pardoned and can again legally own firearms…
Is that how Felonies work? I’m pretty sure accepting a Pardon is explicitly an admission of guilt.
EDIT: Looks like it’s a state by state basis.
Some of them were the police.
The police are on their side, typically, because they both rabidly protect the wealth class. They usually bark in the yard outside… It’s just on January 6 they went a little too far into the mansion, got their muddy paws on the rug, had to get their snouts bopped by the estate enforcers.
IMO, the Police are only on their own side. As long as they don’t make a spectacle about it, they have supreme authority to do whatever they want within their districts.
Can’t wait for the supreme court he installed to vote to let us vote for him
Welcome to 2024, the year the two party system wins the elections again, peasants keep getting exploited and the rich becomes richer
The two-party system winning would suck, but not as much as Trump’s one-party system winning.
If both choices suck just pick another one, you are not supposed to vote for any of them
Absolutely, if we had fair elections that made third parties viable. We don’t and they aren’t.
Chugging lemon juice and chugging arsenic would both suck. I would much rather choose myself than leave that one up to chance.
You don’t get lemon juice if arsenic wins the election.
Yeah you aren’t guaranteed the result you want in an election.
I would choose water
As is your right.
Unfortunately you wake up to find arsenic has won.
The two party system winning over trump would truly be the biggest win of our lives.
yeah, a bunch of corrupted fascists and genocide supporters greedy for money who brought humanity to the bring of extinction with their wars and polluting the environment for profits winning again and staying in power would be the biggest win of your lives.
If we’re including the environment then it’s even more of a no brainer what a massive loss it would be for trump to win, he would undo and block as much as he could. Biden might not be doing enough, but at least we’re going in the right direction. Trump would make sure we go backwards.
If you think supporting a genocide is going in the right direction i have bad news for you
Oh so now all of the other things don’t count again? lol
Gimme a break. We said the same shit about Bush in 2004.
“Vote or die” was a huge campaign movement.
Can I ask how old you are? Because it was absolutely nothing like it is now in 2004. The vote or die thing wasn’t literal, it was just an attempt at a making voting cool to get young people out to vote.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
I’m 34. There absolutely were people talking about a fascist bush/Cheney regime in 2004. Sure things are different now, but they’re still very much the same.
If you are 34: You were at most 10 years old when Bush won in Nov. 11, 1999, and at most 18 years old when he left office. You were a child. You didn’t vote. You really don’t know if things were “very much the same”.
“You could never understand historical events if you weren’t literally alive and a full grown voting adult to see them”
What a fucking shit take. Have you never commented on a single thing you weren’t alive for? Stop being so reactionary, not every election is “the most important in our country’s history”. Again, gimme a break.
I was also an adult in 2004, and mr_robot is correct, “Vote or Die” was just an edgy get-out-the-vote campaign to make voting cool, not a “VOTE OR WE LITERALLY ARE GOING TO DIE” call to arms against Bush. You are free to comment on things you weren’t alive or and adult for, but you have to be correct. You are just wrong here. Let it go.
I would like to note that they only example you’ve provided to equate the two is that p-diddy used s common figurative saying in an attempt to make voting cool.
One can certainly understand things, to an extent, that happened when they were young or before they were born. But if this is the meat of your argument, let alone appearing to be the entirety of it, this is not one of those times.
And you know what? They were right, they were just off on the timing. Bush’s administration (and frankly Clinton’s before him, to a lesser degree) normalized a lot of more-flaunting that’s only just coming to fruition.
A disdain for the truth. A mistrust of our electoral process. Utilizing consecutive emergencies to hold on to power (also known as the Julius Caesar doctrine). Projecting the appearance of strength at any cost. Never admitting to misconduct. Fighting against (and convincing your supporters to fight against) things that would’ve previously been bipartisan just because it could help the other party politically. Overlooking malfeasance because of party alliance (and overlooking positive qualities because of disloyalty). Showboating for cable news. All of those things led directly to Donald Trump in 2016, because they were torn down piece by piece in 1996-2004.
This false equivalency doesn’t acknowledge that nations very rarely fall in one swift stroke; it’s a slow but steady erosion of the fabric of decency. And maybe you’re right this time, too; maybe Trump will surprise us all and not do the things he said he would do, like be a dictator on his first day in office or deport non-Christians or pardon convicted criminals who are loyal to him.
But what about the next guy? The one who sees the promises Trump is making and thinks, “this but unironically”? The guy who sees how far Trump has pushed the envelope and how much he’s disregarded mores and is willing to push it down the field a little bit more? What about the guy in 2032 who thinks Trump’s “first day dictatorship” didn’t go far enough? What’s to stop him?
It’s not a slippery slope fallacy when we’re actually slipping down the slope.
And we won’t fix it next time if we won’t fix it now. They’ll just keep moving the Overton Window until they’ve normalized an outright empire.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…” “You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?” “No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.” “Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.” “I did,” said Ford. “It is.” “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?” “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.” “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?” “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.” “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?” “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?” “What?” “I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?” “I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.” Ford shrugged again. “Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.” “But that’s terrible,” said Arthur. “Listen, bud,” said Ford, “if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say ‘That’s terrible’ I wouldn’t be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”
-Douglas Adams
They’ll sacrifice their lives for a person who is demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just gets more loser-y, folks, okay… If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here’s a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.
- 0 re-elections won
- 1 term president
- 2 times impeached
- 3 marriages
- 4 inch lifts in his shoes
- 5 kids, from 3 different mothers
- 6 bankruptcies
- 7 US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
- 8 trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
- 9 trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant’s legal fees
- 10 years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
- 11 trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
- 12 million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
- 13 of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
- 14 year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, “Wow! Just think - in a couple years I’ll be dating you.”
- 15 originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 1,000,000 Americans have since died of COVID and it continues to kill 4 years later.
- 16 years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted “miss teen” pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, “trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew.”
- 17 known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
- 18 gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin’s infrastructure bill.
- 19 as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the “misinformation conversation” originated with trump
- 20 the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
- 21 gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members “losers” and “suckers” and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly “bone spurs” excuse.
- 22 date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
- 23 as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
- 24 day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
- 25 plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
Would love to see the DOJ with this attitude…
It’s great to see this optimism here. Wish I could muster that. Everything he’s done seems so impossible to me but time after time he wins and wins and gets away with so many terrible things. There is an ocean of support behind this madness and it seems like things aren’t nearly different enough than they were 8 years ago. I once thought him being elected was impossible, now it feels almost inevitable. A star is collapsing and he is the black hole at the center. I hope you are right, I support these efforts and I’m not giving up, but man it’s hard not to feel futillistic when the horned beast arises from the gauntlet unscathed time after time.
Not if Thomas or Kavanaugh have anything to say about it.
*any republicans
Need guard rails to stop intersection in general, for all future A-holes.
Seems like we dragged this out almost on purpose so that it would become a serious election issue.
This should have been dealt with in 2020 and concluded with lots of jail time.
Why do I keep getting posts 24+hrs after they’re posted? I’m gonna guess timezones.
