• Dave@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Religion has certain self-reinforcing properties. Kind of like genes that make it more likely to propagate against other forms of information.

    • Believing without question is better than questioning
    • Not believing will be punished
    • Virtue will be rewarded
    • Spreading the belief is a virtue
    • You should obey your parents

    Combine that with young human brains being malleable, and religion tends to continue against all odds.

  • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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    9 months ago

    Because religion provides comfort, community and a meaning to people’s existence that goes beyond “we were born of chance on an insignificant rock somewhere in the universe”.

    (I’m not religious BTW)

  • cabbage@piefed.social
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    9 months ago

    Existence is meaningless and we just wobble around here for a little while and then we die. There’s nothing to it. Everything that happens is just a logical consequence; beauty is nothing but a tiny chemical reaction in your brain. Once you rot it’s all worthless.

    Science is great at giving explanations, but not so good at providing meaning. For a lot of people, meaning is probably more helpful in order to facilitate a happy life.

    Nietzsche writes at length about this stuff, most famously in the anecdote about the madman coming down from the mountain to inform the villagers that God is dead and that we have killed him. Everybody knows the three words “God is dead”, but I think it’s worth reading at length:

    God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

    Nietzsche, whose father was a priest, recognizes that “God has become unbelievable”, but he does not celebrate it as the progress of science. Rather, we lost something that was fundamentally important to humans, and which science cannot easily replace.

    Here one could start talking about the Free Masons, who attempted learning from religious rituals without the added layer of religion. Or one could dig deeper into the works of Nietzsche, and the contrast between Apollonian and Dionysian. It’s all fascinating stuff.

    In short though, spirituality used to offer people a sense of meaning that is not so easily replaced by science alone. How do we bury our dead now that we know our rituals are pointless?

  • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    I think a big part of the mental blocked on both sides is people generally not understanding the difference between fact and faith.

    Knowledge is about fact. It’s the realm of science, empiricism, and logic. If it can be understood and known, it belongs here.

    Faith is about the unknowable (not the unknown). It’s a choice to believe something without evidence because that evidence cannot exist.

    You can’t both believe something and know it.

    Understanding that faith and science don’t intersect allows people to hold spiritual beliefs without rejecting knowledge and science. They don’t conflict because they’re entirely separate.

    Some people aren’t wired with the mental flexibility to embrace both spiritually and empiricism. Some reject science, while others reject faith, and neither understand the other.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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    9 months ago

    One thing atheists often ignore is that being part of a religion means being part of a community, a group. That alone is reason enough for many people to stick with it.

    Sure, the preacher/priest/whatever may be a scammer asshole, but this isn’t about him, it’s about me and the people around me. I belong in here and so do these people.

    Remember, humans are social creatures. Being part of a group is a big fucking deal.

    Another thing I’ve been giving some thought, religion can be a “lazy shortcut” for the brain to acknowledge some stuff without having to spend too much energy thinking about it. It’s a lot easier to wrap your head around “Because God wants it” than digging deep into the hows and whys of anything. No, it’s not scientific in the least, but humans are lazy. I am lazy, you are lazy, everyone here is lazy, we just opt to save energy in different things.

    • GONADS125@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      I’ve known atheists who go to church for the community. I’m an atheist, and I have recommended going to a nondenominational church to other atheists who had said they really lacked community support.

      Of course, sometimes religious community systems can actually be very hostile and nonsupportive and downright exploitative. Really just depends on the specific church community. Just like there are some great people and some major assholes out there. Churches are no different.

    • Urist@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      Wonder why atheists often do not value the communal aspect of a community they are often excluded from. It is almost as if they do not value not being included in the group? Also, lazy shortcuts often lead to bad outcomes. Being wary about that is a good thing, in my opinion.

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      being part of a religion means being part of a community, a group.

      The local crafting circle doesn’t endanger children and carpet bomb the neighbours, though.

        • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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          9 months ago

          The funny thing is that that kind of talk of the previous poster is just a bad type of generalization, a lazy shortcut. The existence of bad elements within a large group is a given. There are pedophile priests, just as there are pedophile uncles or teachers. The only difference here is in how accountable they are for their actions, as the Roman Catholic Church is well known for protecting its abusive priests, which isn’t too different from Epstein’s friends having money shields.

          As for carpet bombing and general violence, one could say it’s “politics as usual”. When words fail (whether on purpose or not is irrelevant here), violence emerges, because one side wants to impose its will. Religion is just another lazy (and often effective) shortcut to rally people behind a cause, not unlike patriotism

  • Zeshade@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    What’s “wrong” in your question is the assumption that a) the only reason religions exist is the lack of knowledge and b) that the knowledge we have answers all the questions that people seek answers to when they turn to religion. I think if you question these assumptions then you’ll easily start to find the answers. Otherwise see all the other comments.

  • HippoMoto@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    Have you heard of the fireplace delusion? Burning wood is horrible for our health and the environment, but most of us have fond memories of sitting by a fire. Religion is the same. Holiday traditions with family, organized events marking important life events, it’s hard to break away.

    https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-fireplace-delusion

  • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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    9 months ago

    Belief is social. If you’re surrounded by people that all believe a thing, you’re more likely to also believe. If challenged on something that threatens group membership, your brain reacts like it’s a physical threat. Group membership is that important. Facts matter far less.

    This happens to everyone.

    • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      There’s basically a 100% chance that OP believes something equally as unprovable as religion.

      • LengAwaits@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        This happens to everyone.

        Yeah, they said that in their comment. Did you not read all 5 sentences?

        Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood your post.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    It’s not about what an individual could know, it’s about what they do know and how structured is a person’s thinking.

    So just because out there somewhere there are tons of explanations for tons of things doesn’t mean people actually know them (lots if not most is quite obscure or requires understanding of a lot of other things first before you can trully understand those things) plus people have to think in very structure ways to spot gaps or flaws in what they thing they know and go look for better info.

    And this is just the Logic level problem.

    The Emotional level stuff is way more important. Religion:

    • provides easy non-scary explanations for tons of things which can be terrifying to accept as just random (Massive Earthquake, killing hundreds of thousands: “It’s the will of Deity” is a calming explanation which implies “someDeity” has control)
    • provides hope for one’s and one’s loved one’s future (Granny died: “She’s gone to Heaven!”)
    • makes the World seem so much simpler and hence understandeable for anybody by explaining away all complexity (All those lights in the night-sky: “There was a fight between the SunGod and the MoonGod during which his rays pierced the black veil that surrounds us”).
    • for those born into it, it’s just familiar and “the way people think”.

    And last but not least, Religion is a ready made tribe, generally mutually supporting, so it satisfies people’s lowest tribalist instincts and provides concrete benefits from being part of a social circle from which you can get help.

    This also explains why supposedly Religious people are selective in what they believe from their religion (notice how almost none of Christians take to hearth the whole point of Christ casting out the Money Lenders from the Temple), why they don’t actually know all that much detail about their own Religion (if they don’t think in a way that helps them spot what they do not know, that gets reflected on not looking for more info both outside and inside religion) and why it’s so easy to manipulate people with religion (if the complexity of the world is explained as “blady, blady, blah, Deity”, those trusted to understand the Deity can make sure pretty much all complex things get reasoned as “Deity wills it so because my bullshit reason” - plus remember, religious types are the non-structured non-skeptic thinkers).

    • Dkarma@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Eh…it’s easier than that. You know what you’re told growing up.
      Kids who are abused think that’s normal. Kids who are abused with religion also think that’s normal.

      Kind of like how your dad’s fav sports team is your fav too cuz reasons. If your dad was Muslim you probably will be too.

    • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      To believe that god creates atrocities and that they’re not just random is actually malicious and stupid.

      If god kills millions of people without warrant, why fucking worship the dumb cunt?

  • xionzui@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Religions are sort of like mind viruses. The ones that have survived have done so because they are very good at taking root and multiplying in the human mind. Sort of a natural selection of ideas. They develop the necessary features like a way to ignore contrary evidence and severe consequences for not believing

  • pachrist@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Religion is founded on belief, and belief allows people to feel certainty about things they’re ultimately uncertain about. As long is there is something that someone doesn’t fully understand, religion and god are a solution to bridge the gap.

    When you are that person, the leap to a god is fairly logical and easy to them, since at a base level, it’s born out of a desire for someone to be in charge and in control. You understand some of the world around you. To understand it more fully, you just need a bigger, stronger, smarter version of yourself. That’s why in most religions, a god is not some transcendent, immortal, eternal, all powerful being. They’re just essentially Human+. There are way more religions with gods like Zeus than Allah. Saying that nobody is in charge, and nobody fully understands anything, and that’s all OK makes billions of people uncomfortable. And, screaming at them that they’re wrong and need to be more OK with some existential dread usually just serves to make them more uncomfortable.

    • adrian783@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      human brain just wants patterns and will create it to satisfy itself. religion does not run counter to human knowledge, they’re the same process really.