• stinerman [Ohio]@midwest.socialEnglish
    26·
    14 days ago

    Ahh the halcyon days of downloading one song from a private FTP server with upload ratios, found by Lycos FTP search. Over a modem, natch, so it took about 50 minutes…and that’s when your mom didn’t kick you off the internet so she could make a call.

  • FeelThePower@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    6·
    14 days ago

    I only learned to torrent because my dad used to when I was a kid. But these days I use XDCC instead because it’s just so much more convenient. Though to be fair most of my friends who are also GenZ probably don’t know how to do that either.

  • kib48@lemdro.idEnglish
    91·
    13 days ago

    needing a paid vpn to torrent without getting spooky ISP notices is a pretty big barrier for me tbh :|

    • spaceaape@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      41·
      13 days ago

      Get into a Private tracker. Or You could rent a vps in a country that doesn’t care, torrent to that server and stream or sync it locally. You would never be torrenting on your local connection.

      • state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        9·
        13 days ago

        I don’t understand how private trackers are supposed to be secure. They cannot guarantee that they keep out all bad actors and that means they’re basically the same as public trackers, just more exclusive and with a slightly lower risk because of the barrier of entry. I used MyAnonamouse in the past and back then they weren’t big fans of VPNs. But I will never use any tracker without a VPN.

        • isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
          4·
          13 days ago

          My guess would be that companies will probably go after the 99.9% of people that torrent on public trackers, while ignoring private ones since it’s not worth it to go to all that trouble just to track the last 0.1%

        • spaceaape@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          3·
          13 days ago

          Never had any issues with the private tracker I’m in or got any letter from my ISP. I definitely don’t pay for a vpn. I could always use my rented vps(seedbox) as a vpn if i absolutely needed or wanted to.

          • ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            13 days ago

            Blocklists are ineffective by design. Each and every member of the swarm can collect all the data necessary to flag you to your ISP. Obviously any professional collecting this kind of data can avoid a blocklist. There is no such thing as a better blocklist.

    • ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      4·
      13 days ago

      Teach us then 😭

      I think this hits on another big generational difference. Those who grew up in the early days of personal computing and the Internet didn’t have teachers or a hallucinating language model to spoon feed them instant answers. They had to actually RTFM thoroughly before they could even think of asking in some arcane BBS, forum, or IRC for help from elders that had absolutely zero tolerance for incompetence or ignorance. MAN pages and help files came bundled, but the Internet (if you had it) was metered and inconvenient on a scale more like going to the library than ordering a pizza. They had to figure out how to ask the right questions. They had to figure out how to find their own answers. The Internet was so slow that all the really interesting bits were often just text. So much indexed and categorized one might need to learn a little more just to find the right details in that sea of text. There was a lot less instant gratification and no one expected to be able to solve their problems just by asking for help.

      I’ve seen way too many kids give up at the first pebble in their path because they are so accustomed to the instant gratification that has pervaded our culture since the dawn of smart phones.

    • CodingCarpenter@lemm.eeEnglish
      26·
      14 days ago

      Ha I was actually just thinking that we need to teach them as I was reading this. We had to go through a shit ton of trial and error. God forbid if he started with something like LimeWire. Viruses… Viruses everywhere

    • Omgboom@lemmy.zipEnglish
      122·
      14 days ago

      Besides 1337 who is good?

      Literally any private tracker is a million times better

      • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        231·
        14 days ago

        Are those the trackers which demand you have accounts with other private trackers before you join or the ones which demand everyone have a >1 ratio to download anything which is impossible by definition, so everyone either gets huge seedboxes, cheats the ratio or has to download niche but big files from other sites and switch out the tracker to artificially up the ratio?

        I’m sure there are actually good private trackers, but I’ve found there are open/effectively open (sign up only with no verification/requirements) trackers with better communities than any restricted one I’ve found

        • Omgboom@lemmy.zipEnglish
          5·
          14 days ago

          I mean some of them are less good than others, and the economies on them vary. Most decent ones these days though use a points system where you earn points based on how long you’ve seeded torrents. You use points to purchase upload credit which artificially raises your ratio. Not all of them require you to have accounts on other trackers, some of them have an interview process that after you’ve passed you can create an account, I’m not sure if this is what you mean by “open/effectively open”. These are still private trackers, and from them you can get access to invite only trackers. There’s several avenues you can take to get onto different private trackers, it’s not hard it just takes time (and seeding!)

          • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nlEnglish
            2·
            13 days ago

            I got in one private tracker and I like that system a lot. I seed my torrents for years because I don’t do a ton of very popular stuff, and I like some older shows. Like The Mentalist season packs on TG are at like a 30:1 for me because not many others seed them.

            However, the private tracker doesn’t use standard naming which sometimes fucks up searches and *arr, also, there are barely any seeders or leechers so a lot of media is hit or miss both downloading and uploading. Of the 50 or so things that I downloaded since I got on, 1 has a positive seed ratio, so thank mods for duration seed points…

        • AVincentInSpace@pawb.socialEnglish
          3·
          12 days ago

          have a >1 ratio to download anything which is impossible by definition

          They give you a bit of leniency after you first sign up. All that share ratio means is that you leave your computer seeding for a while after your download finishes, and when your torrent client has uploaded the file you got from them to e.g. 5 other people you can stop seeding it. They’re asking you to give back, is all. If you download a 3GB file from other people in the swarm and then immediately close the torrent before anybody can download it from you, after enough repeat times of you doing that, they’ll stop letting you download new files.

          Trackers cannot read, and are not interested in, the number at the bottom of your torrent client, or your history with other trackers. They just care that you seed their torrents after you’ve finished downloading them so other people can download them too.

          • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
            3·
            12 days ago

            I was referring to ones which explicitly require you to have a >1 ratio to download files, which do absolutely have leniency when you sign up, but the average ratio is 1 by definition assuming a closed system and so it’s infeasible for the majority to get >1. Often they have freeleach days but that requires you to be around on that day and also download stuff you don’t want to seed it, rather than just slightly reducing the required ratio (also IMO having a required ratio of any form is bad as it encourages people to turn off seeding after that point, generally I’ll seed stuff which has <5 seeders or low availability of parts I have, as seeding them to 100x is way more valuable than seeding 1000 files which have hundreds of seeders all with 100% availability to 1x)

            I accept they want to keep leaches out though, so if they required a ratio of 0.5-0.75 that’d be fine, but from my experience most “entry level” private ones don’t, and most non-entry level ones either have closed signups or a requirement to be signed up with an existing private tracker in which things are either ridiculously over or underseeded with no inbetween, so it’s hard to build up a ratio.

            • AVincentInSpace@pawb.socialEnglish
              1·
              9 days ago

              The system isn’t closed though. More people join the tracker all the time, and that’s to say nothing of the people who already have access to the tracker downloading a new file.

              • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
                2·
                9 days ago

                I don’t think you understand how it works… An upload:download ratio must average (not simple mean, but that’s because ratios are nonlinear - I can’t recall the mean type but it’s the nth root of multiplying them all together) 1 in a system where all uploads and downloads are logged in the same tracker. It doesn’t matter who the uploader or downloader is or how recently they made their account. That’s what I meant by a closed system.

                An open system would be where you download parts or all of a given torrent via another tracker, and the same with upload. The private tracker only logs what you downloaded and uploaded though it, so your ratio from the perspective of that tracker is different to in reality.

                Even if you ignore the first 5 files or 15GB or whatever for new users, if you have those files then great but do you really want to turn it into a betting game of seeding supply and leeching demand?

    • Maerman@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      6·
      14 days ago

      Depends on what you’re looking for, really. I’m unsure about the rules regarding sharing specific sites, but if you DM me, I can throw a few recommendations your way.

    • Fisch@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      2·
      14 days ago

      1337 is fine for most stuff, I think. Private trackers start to make sense when you want to automate downloading shows and movies but if you just wanna pirate some game, you’ll probably find it on 1337 with a ton of seeders anyways.

  • inlandempire@jlai.luEnglish
    1851·
    14 days ago

    Computer literacy is weird because it feels like millennials were born into it and had to learn how to use the tools available… Then said tools were made a lot simpler with a lot less control over them, and Gen Z was born into apps and saas and did not have the chance to properly learn

    We generally only taught a single generation to master our tech, I think it’s scary, but also I trust the Zoomers to figure it out, they’re creative

    • neidu2@feddit.nlEnglish
      44·
      14 days ago

      I think so too. My kids are around the age I was when I first started tinkering with PCs, but they don’t have any awareness of what’s going on under the hood, (to be frank, nor do they seem to need it, as everything is so polished these days).

      I’m thinking of asking their teachers if I can take them out of school for a day each and bring them to work with me for educational purposes so they get some perspective in the form of networks and servers.

      Sure, they’re mostly interested in gaming, but I want them to see what kind of infrastructure is needed for a multiplayer game, specifically the hardware that they never get to see.

      I’m building a new server stack in a couple of months, and most of it will be used for testing, so I’d like for them to help build and connect it.

      • RBG@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        43·
        14 days ago

        (to be frank, nor do they seem to need it, as everything is so polished these days)

        The problem is if you don’t know basic concepts of computers you cannot transfer your knowledge from one program to the next. Folder structures are a bizarre thing for many people and if they see one in program A, then they won’t understand that in program B it works the same way.

        I have never had any issues learning any new software from scratch, but I see people my age not figuring out where to click next or where something they are looking for might be hidden in the options. Then an update comes that changes things and they are back to square 1 and helpless.

        • neidu2@feddit.nlEnglish
          48·
          14 days ago

          I just had a chat with my oldest (almost 13 years y.o.) asking him some theoretical questions in the hope to spark some curiosity: “When you connect to a Roblox game, what do you think you’re connecting to?”. It took him a few leaps of imagination to realize that he’s connecting to a physical machine somewhere, and now he’s curious as to how such a machine looks. So that server stack I’ll be setting up, he’s interested in tagging along.

          He already knows full well that there are more to PCs than just the windows UI, as I’m a linux guy, but I don’t think they’re aware of just how much can be done with a computer once you go outside of the usual GUI app that connects to some cloud service.

          So, provided that his teacher agrees (after all, I have to take him out of school for what effectively will be “alternative education” for a few days so we can fly down to the head office), he’ll end up with bragging rights of having dealt network hardware that costs more than the average computer, and computers that cost more than the average house.

          • Dreyns@lemmy.mlEnglish
            19·
            14 days ago

            This could be a very formative memory even if he get disinterested from computers, getting this kind of perspective on things can go a long way !

            • Trainguyrom@reddthat.comEnglish
              7·
              14 days ago

              I have memories of some random afternoons at the consulting firm my mom worked at, where everyone’s just poking at spreadsheets. I can’t imagine how cool the memory of going into the server farm and doing some hardware work there would be

          • Maerman@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
            18·
            14 days ago

            Good on you. You can teach your son some valuable perspective, while getting in some quality time as well. Please let us know how it goes, if you don’t mind. I feel invested now.

                • brbposting@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  4·
                  13 days ago

                  Best I can do is “[voice assistant] remind me about that post in two months”

                  Drat, gotta open the reminder and paste in the comment URL too. Do wonder if that bot mentioned is whitelisted or not. More social, beyond just being native. And hopefully it has “send me a PM to reduce spam”

          • variants@possumpat.ioEnglish
            6·
            14 days ago

            I just had a baby and I’m already planning how to get her to help me run my home lab as a way to get her to figure all this stuff out, maybe run some game servers or do a little local blog. Then I think about how I can teach her to solder a hand wired keyboard or maybe build a little fpv drone with me and then I start to remember that kids sometimes just don’t like what you do so you never know what you could get them interested in or not or if you will each have the time when they’re older

            • VinS@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
              3·
              13 days ago

              3 and 5 years old here. They can get interested as long it’s short and they can do meaningful work. I’ve teared down a second hand game boy color that had his fair share of Pepsi in it. The old one helped me clean with a toothbrush for 10 minutes, then he had to show me what parts were going where (with guidance). Then boot up and verify it works. We try to include them in everything we do and they love to help. We try to avoid the “it’s adult business” and they just sit around and never be interested on whats going out around them. The 3 year old can cut mushrooms with a wood knife and the 5 stir them when cooking.

              It’s definitely more work, stuff will be broken but I think it’s worth it.

        • Trainguyrom@reddthat.comEnglish
          3·
          14 days ago

          Folder structures are a bizarre thing for many people

          When learning about this I learned that in the analog days folks would actually put physical folders inside of physical folders and it both makes tons of sense and is mind blowing at the same time. -Late Millennial born to IT parents

    • RandomVideos@programming.devEnglish
      11·
      14 days ago

      Im surprised that a lot of people that are my age, even if they are using computers a lot, dont know how to search the solution for a problem or follow some instructions on how to do something

    • Fisch@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      7·
      14 days ago

      I’m Gen Z and I still know all this stuff because that’s just what I’m interested in. I don’t think it’s a huge issue that those things were made simpler for the average person and that they don’t know how it works. It’s not like you can or need to know everything.

    • Maerman@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      95·
      14 days ago

      You make some good points there. I remember LAN parties in high school where we would spend hours troubleshooting network problems and calling older brothers for advice. I learned a lot from those experiences, because I was forced to. I think a big part of the changes we are seeing in computer literacy is what I would call the Apple philosophy: if a toddler can’t use it, we need to simplify. Basically, as you said, things are getting simpler with less granular control. Of course, Apple is far from the only company doing this stuff, but they seem to be industry leaders in the sense of ‘dumbing down’ tech.

      I recently had a friend say that privacy is a luxury these days. My first thought was that there is nothing luxurious about it. It takes hard work, inconvenience and savvy. And I’m not even close to Stallman levels of privacy paranoia. I know just enough to acknowledge that I know nothing. I feel similarly about tech in general. I have been using Linux for ten years, I use VPNs, I have played around with DNS settings, et cetera. But I realize that I have barely scratched the surface of what is possible and available to those willing to spend the time and get it done.

      Anyway, I’ll shut up now. Thanks for replying thoughtfully, and thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

    • RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      22·
      14 days ago

      It’s really not a generational thing. Every generation has their nerds and they always are just a tiny minority.

      The late Gen X/early millennials may have been an outlier because they were forced to learn to get anything working but also from those years most don’t care about tech.

      • the_third@feddit.deEnglish
        6·
        14 days ago

        Yep. I dabble in recruiting related stuff at conferences and expos for our company occasionally and I usually meet one or two young people that get the “get in contact!” remark on the protocol sheet. They’re out there, they’re just rare.

    • Tregetour@lemdro.idEnglish
      7·
      14 days ago

      Then said tools were made a lot simpler with a lot less control over them

      Which needs to be reversed if we’re to remain free in Western democracies. Access to and control of computing - general purpose computing in particular - is practically a civil liberty now. I look at legislators in my own country, and I’d wager 50% of them don’t understand this, 40% kind of grasp the problems but are apathetic, and 10% are on the enemies’ payrolls.

    • histic@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      5·
      14 days ago

      The weird thing is I know a lot of millennials that could use a dos computer just fine but struggle with anything modern

      • Scrollone@feddit.itEnglish
        31·
        14 days ago

        So maybe we shouldn’t worry after all? Future generations will make fun of us because we can use Windows XP fine but we don’t understand how TikTok works?

    • Call Me Mañana@lemmy.mlEnglish
      26·
      11 days ago

      In my country, this generational divide doesn’t make much sense. But comparing those born in the 90s and early 2000s with those born from the late 2000s onwards, there is a fundamental difference: there was, even in the public education system, a variety of computer courses available to many people. With the arrival and hegemony of the app model, which is designed with the idea that it is intuitive and does not require anyone to be taught how to use it, computer courses have been disappearing. As a result, millions of young people use computers daily and have no knowledge of simple concepts such as shortcuts Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, let alone advanced features of Office suites, not to mention that they have no idea what LATEX and Markdown are.

      • Jessica@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        7·
        13 days ago

        To be fair, the overwhelming majority of people regardless of age don’t know what LaTeX or markdown are. Not the best examples. I’m a millennial with a 4 year STEM degree and I maybe used LaTeX once because it was required, and before Discord became a thing, I’d never heard of markdown. Most people who use Discord probably don’t even know it supports markdown.

        • Call Me Mañana@lemmy.mlEnglish
          4·
          11 days ago

          I agree that is a extreme example. That’s precisely why I started with keyboard shortcuts. I don’t think anyone is required to know LaTeX and Markdown, but it seems to me that fewer and fewer younger people know them. If there are fewer people who know the basics, there are proportionally fewer people who know the advanced ones.

      • inlandempire@jlai.luEnglish
        10·
        14 days ago

        That’s super interesting, I do remember being taught as a kid how to use Google Image search (circa 2005), Gimp for photo manipulation around the age of 12 in 2008, we had technology classes with electronics, technical drawing, even some plastic bending machine, and light programming (made a robot figurine execute recorded moves in sequence)

        I do wonder if it’s still the case in my own country

  • astreus@lemmy.mlEnglish
    4·
    14 days ago

    How true is this or are we doing the same thing “generation killed industry/way of doing things” that the boomer media is so fond of?

  • Neps@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    14·
    14 days ago

    I was born after 2000 I have to teach my parent how to torrent its not a generational thing lol

  • gay@femboys.barEnglish
    34·
    12 days ago

    i know how to torrent, usenet newsgroups are just safer and costs the same as an acceptable vpn.