13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.
What the actual fuck?
Worth noting that the ancient Greeks believed that democracy is impossible without an ethnically homogeneous population. Otherwise, they believed that there would be too many different competing intentions, that politicians would not have any clear direction and it would be very difficult to get anything important resolved. People love making emotional arguments regarding inclusivity, which is hard to reject without sounding boorish, but there are actual practical concerns with the situation.
I mean, I don’t want to be too rude but look at the European democracies who are typically praised in contrast to the U.S. Their populations have been significantly more ethnically homogenous, and only recently have they begun to deal with significant immigrant populations of differently colored peoples. How have they done? Immediate rise of far-right groups and tons of anti-immigrant propoganda.
I’m not claiming the Greeks were right, I think they had a small-minded view of what diversity could bring them, but it is an interesting observation.
On the other hand look at the US, which has been extremely successful as an ethnically diverse republic and in fact wouldn’t be nearly as successful without that diversity. America has problems, but none of them are because there are a lot of different people there.
I mean, the massive number of racists who are currently trying to elect a fascist would disagree, and I think many minority groups would disagree that there haven’t been problems in the very recent past.
Certainly, the fault lies in the racists, but we can’t pretend that is not a problem directly caused by having an ethnically diverse country. It’s one that we’ll need to find a solution for, because otherwise we’ll always have a group who is willing to burn democracy to the ground because they hate people who have a different skin color.
I think many minority groups would disagree that there haven’t been problems in the very recent past.
I mean there are problems for minorities, but not for America as a whole I mean.
because otherwise we’ll always have a group who is willing to burn democracy to the ground because they hate people who have a different skin color.
I think it’s debatable they only do it because they hate people with a different skin color. They also hate women and poor people, among other things, so while the rhetoric would be different I don’t think being a 100% white country would do much to curb the American far right.
Yes, but they also thought that women were inferior to men and slavery was an awesome idea, so maybe they aren’t the best people to look back on for opinions.
and yet the entire enlightenment political infrastucture we have built is based on their ideas.
Nonsense. The Enlightenment was inspired by many ancient Greek and other philosophers, not just advocates of Athenian democracy.
ok.
That’s why you consider the reasons presented by those who invented democracy, rather than simply accepting an idea based entirely on who presented it.
You don’t have to answer me, but ask yourself if our current societies have too many competing ideals, that it’s hard to get anything important done.
They invented direct Athenian democracy.
The U.S. is the first constitutional republic. They are extremely different. This is like saying NASA engineers should consider why the Wright Brothers never left the atmosphere.
America’s problems have nothing to do with what the Ancient Greeks believed.
13% of Democrats agree with Trump on that.
More proof of fake respondents. Basically some people, for whatever reason (depending on the poll it could be financial) just speed run the polls with no thought about what they’re clicking on. So it makes any extremely unpopular view appear more supported. I can’t find much about how this was done, if it was an online opt-in poll I’d be especially suspicious.
Edit: it seems this was done with a Ipsos KnowledgePanel, which as I suspected is an online, paid, opt-in panel. This is exactly the kind of design that’s prone to speed running for cash.
Any good pollster adds questions for quality control and throws out the result if they’re answered improperly.
Says the country that is 99% immigrant blood
Yeah the non immigrant blood is the one they spilled
Remember that a horrifying number of people, especially conservatives, are invaluable of caring about - or even noticing - any problem that doesn’t personally impact themselves.
I think this is also a problem of perspective: the US Democrats are only “left” when seen from inside the US political spectrum. Seen from the outside they barely reach a center position and would be considered conservative-right in many other countries.
13% of any national group is enough to account for people who don’t have any good reason to identify with that group but do so because their friends or family did.
Knowing what 13% of Democrats think tells you what the party is not, not what the party is. It’s irrelevant to the tired, old point that you’ve dragged out here.
When my Jewish roommate told his parents he was dating a gentile they told him he was “thinning the blood”
I was at a Ska show last night. They played a tRump ad about the border before the music. We almost left. Surreal, honestly, for the type of crowd I would expect.
Music and politics are super weird. Paul Ryan, former Republican speaker of the house, was an RATM fan until Tom Morello told him to fuck off. Ann Coulter is a massive Deadhead. So is Tucker Carlson. There’s even a photo of Tucker hanging out with Jerry Garcia when he was in his 20s. The story is in an interview here if you can stomach it: https://www.maxraskin.com/interviews/interview-with-tucker-carlson
And then there’s the musicians themselves- Johnny Ramone, Alice Cooper, Gene Simmons, all conservatives.
Yeah, I get it. I was really into Dead Kennedys and Jellos spoken words. The whole movement was anti-rayguns. It’s just super weird. I imagine Paul Ryan is so dumb he didn’t realize he was the forces in which we we were raging. Conservatives are not big on context. i.e. YMCA…
Music and right-wing politics are weird. I can’t even begin to count how many bands were proudly anti-war in the 70s. Then there’s the punk movement, which was highly critical of Reagan and Bush.
I guess music and a message of hope/protest works better than a message of oppression, especially when appealing to youth.
Springsteen’s Born in the U.S.A. is about a Vietnam veteran who has been fucked over by the country he came back to.
Reagan used it as part of his flag-waving “it’s morning in America” bullshit because no one listened to the lyrics beyond “I was born in the U.S.A.”
Springsteen should allow them to use the song but without the music just the lyrics.
Yeah, it’s like Trump playing CCR’s Fortunate Son. Fogerty was pissed.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag Hoo, they’re red, white and blue And when the band plays “Hail to the chief” Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no senator’s son, son It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no furtunate one, no
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don’t they help themselves, Lord? But when the taxman come to the door Lord, the house lookin’ like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no millionaire’s son, no, no It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, no
Yeah-yeah, some folks inherit star-spangled eyes Hoo, they send you down to war, Lord And when you ask 'em, “How much should we give?” Hoo, they only answer, “More, more, more, more”
It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no military son, son, Lord It ain’t me, it ain’t me I ain’t no fortunate one, one
He also plays YMCA at the end of his rallies constantly. I guess his audience doesn’t know what that song is about or who The Village People even were.
Dude, I have anxiety (/s) from some of the people I have heard blast this. Like…YOU ARE the FORTUNATE ONE…the square footage of your pool would beg to differ on the amount of oppression the system is hoisting upon you :)
Nothing could keep me there.
All you pale face non-natives gyit the fuuuck out!
To be fair, a significant percentage of those non-natives didn’t choose to be here in the first place.
Not the paleface ones, but…
A minority of voters. The stupid end of the intelligence bell curve.
The poor end of the for profit education industry
Nope just stupid. No amount of education can make a stupid person smart.
After working construction for decades I can say that American workers are shit compared to foreigners. Muslim workers are the hardest. Especially from Ethiopia or Somalia. They learn fast too and are better in many cases than Mexican or SA workers. PLUS no drug or alcohol or daddy/mommy/religious issues.
When I was building in Africa we finished a project 3 days early. They didn’t even have the skills, we taught on site. That would NEVER happen with regular Americans.
Those are immigrants though. Have you ever seriously looked into the bullshit you need to go through to move to another country? It’s insane.
Every immigrant is more impressive than any Olympian.
Immigrants are the blood of the US. This fascist bullshit is the poison.
Which immigrants? They said that about Italians, then Irish. Seems the new guys on the block are always the bad guys until they aren’t.
Elon Musk is an immigrant. Let’s start there
Literally African-American.
Can we bring back lynching for a day? Just for him?
Lynching? Because he’s technically African-American? Wow dude.
I agree with ending the rich and nationalizing their fortunes, but that’s a bad joke.
No?
Wtf.
No no. Just for him. There’s a special place in hell for him and his clique, and the more painful way to deliver him there the better.
Sooo…. A third of Americans have no problem admitting that the part of their brain that processes logic and reason is irreparably damaged.
More like not developed. Though I suppose a bit of both.
You’re all immigrants you idiots.
We are indeed, and…we are indeed.
i live in a small town full of old people who incessantly whine about people “moving here and trying to change things” from other parts of the country. while sitting on stolen cherokee land.
among americans there is this weird fucked up notion that we are, and always were, entitled to this land, and no one else is allowed on it. including the people who were living here first. it’s been passed down through generations since the first colonists and still remains, even among democrats. so we hate “other,” but we especially hate them when they move into town. and god fucking forbid they ever speak anything but 'murican
for context, my town still has a confederate statue because the usual “bUt MuH hIsToReEeEeEeEs”
Nuh uh. I was born here. My parents were born here. (/s, of course)
Let’s not go back any further than that because it hurts the argument.
For context, I am 50% Italian, 25% French, 12.5% Irish, and 12.5% English. At least going off what my parents had told me. I never did a DNA test or anything.
It’s been barely 60 years since racism against Italian- and Irish-American individuals really eased up. All based on xenophobia and an anti-Catholic belief. Before that, they may as well have been Black. Or worse, Japanese.
Tons of people alive today that experienced it first hand. Did all the lead in the paint and gasoline make them forget all about it?
Even still today we have to tiptoe around ideas like renaming Columbus Day. On the one hand, he was a massive piece of shit. On the other hand, it’s morphed into the only holiday celebrating Italian-American heritage. I very much agree with the former, but if we are gonna go all-out on St. Patrick’s Day, Italians should have a day too.
Maybe we could make a bigger deal out of St. Joseph. I could really go for a zeppole right about now, but that’s really all I know of the day. It’s a day for a zeppole.
Don’t 30-40% of any given population support a strong man/fascist anyway?
Horrifying
