NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.
Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I’m not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.
I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.
What’s good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?
If you’re a nurse or some other skilled professional in some specific fields… We have kind of a labor shortage with some jobs here in Germany. I live in the city, should be okay for outsiders. I guess.
I’d recommend to visit a place before considering to move. See how the people act. And you’d need to learn the language to be able to take part in regular every day life. (Edit: And for most jobs.)
Ja, aber man braucht wenigstens b2 für eine Ausbildung zu machen. Das gelt auch für wenn man möchte als Pflegefachmann/frau arbeiten
Stimmt, da habe ich wohl ein großes ‘Aber’ ausgelassen. Habe das mal ergänzt, Danke. Angeblich ist Deutsch ja auch nicht so ganz so leicht zu erlernen. Viele der anderen Sprachen aber wahrscheinlich ebenso wenig.
Ja genau, Deutsch für mich persönlich war/ist schwierig, aber es ist nicht so kompliziert wie es auf Youtube oder Tiktok erklärt werden. Ich schätze, dass es viel einfacher als Arabisch ist.
Beim Sprachen lernen kommt’s immer drauf an wo man her kommt/welche Sprache die Muttersprache ist.
Wer als Deutschsprachiger Japanisch lernt hat es z.b. schwieriger als jemand, der schon Chinesisch kann und Japanisch lernt, weil die Sprachen in den Regionen mehr Ähnlichkeiten haben.
Andererseits ist es für uns Deutsche einfacher Englisch zu lernen als z.b. für die Japaner, weil Englisch und Deutsch vom Aufbau relativ ähnlich sind.
Ja, Englisch und Deutsch sind auch beides germanische Sprachen, sind also durchaus enger verwandt. Wobei ich finde, Englisch ist auch sowieso eine der einfachsten Sprachen zu erlernen. Man muss kein der/die/das mitlernen, die unregelmäßigen Verben sind finde ich ein Witz gegen Deutsch und Französisch (was ich mal in der Schule hatte), wo es ja zu jeder Regel ohnehin zig Ausnahmen gibt … Ich hab mal etwas im Internet herumgeschaut, die Leute sagen man kann B2 Deutsch so in circa 1-2 Jahren nebenher erlernen.
I’m in France and my cousin married an American.
Cost of living is high and the language is bullshit, but the standards of living are some of the best in the world. Very old established democracy and rule of law, workers rights, social security, and whatever the complete opposite of political apathy is. Culture is rich with a disproportionate level of global relevance for the country’s size. The location is ideal in the middle of europe, with a good variety of landscapes and climate.
Internet is cheap and fast, but i don’t know anything about the state of tech jobs.
I don’t know much about the tax system either but my assumption is you might save money just on the healthcare alone.
Overall i wouldn’t recommend, you’d be better off in a country with a language closer to english, such as most countries north of France. They’ll have better english proficiency and you’ll learn the language easier.
France always comes up on lists of good places to live, and there are Francophiles here as everywhere. I admire the place, but I chose Spanish instead of French when it was time to start studying another language, so that die was cast a long time ago.
Yeah i don’t think it’s worth learning french for almost any reason, lots more people speak spanish
the language is bullshit
i don’t think it’s worth learning french for almost any reasonPersonally I’m learning French because it’s the language of bande dessinée, and in order to enjoy more BD, plus run my sublemmy more effectively, it’s an obvious choice.
Anyway I find French much harder than Spanish, but am slowly getting the hang of it… I think. Gender is complete BS to me, and it seems like there are tonnes of little grammar rules to follow. Is that why you called it bullshit, yourself?
Yeah, so by all accounts i’m the kind of person most likely to love the french language: native speaker, effortless spelling and grammar, avid reader of BD, i even like the flowery and decorative aspects of the language (language soutenu); but then i also speak other languages, and this gives me the perspective that, from a practical standpoint, there’s a lot of issues with french. There’s layers of sediment accumulated over centuries, a lot of rules and spellings are vestigial and serve no purpose anymore other than make it harder.
Also, a lot of rules and spellings come from grammarians just saying so, and writing prescriptivist style guides to make people spell The Correct Way. To a point, i even think the ability to invent and follow an arbitrary The Correct Way hass been a class signal.
Even native french speakers sometimes have bad grammar, or at least that’s much more common than english speakers having bad grammar.
English speakers say the same things about their language, but they don’t know about ô <— this accent and the agony of trying to guess when it should be used or not. It’s supposed to indicate a difference in pronunciation, but this difference depends on the accent and is also obvious from context. I’ve known teachers to dock points for shit like this, and it radicalized me against arbitrary rules despite being completely capable of following them. In my opinion, people use features that have a purpose; if people don’t use it, then it’s pointless.
And from a global perspective, fewer people speak french than a lot of other languages. On the one hand this doesn’t matter, lots of people speak mandarin, it’s about who you’re likely to interact with; but i’d say your more likely to interact with spanish speakers.
Unless of course you’re that much into BD. That doesn’t surprise me at all, lots of english speakers learned japanese for weeb reasons, i think it’s completely legit to learn a language for the culture. Actually i find it pretty impressive
Hate to sound ignorant here, what’s BD?
There are more French than English speakers with bad grammar? I find that difficult to believe.
BD = Bande Dessinée, the french term for both graphic novels and comics. Both have a huge history in Europe in general and France-Belgium in particular, but it’s extremely unusual for english speakrs to know or care, it’s really appreciated.
I guess i shouldn’t speak so definitively, it’s not like i have data to back up the fact that there are more French than English speakers with bad grammar; but really, french grammar is worse than complex, it’s unintuitive and arbitrary, and it does feel like i see more french speakers with bad grammar. For what that’s worth
I am originally from the US but moved to AU and am now a citizen. I got lucky and got out just before Trump’s first presidency.
Life here is good. Like, better than most Americans can really understand. Healthcare is free, education is good and includes topics like critical thinking and understanding how to spot “fake news”.
There is only a small aisle of frozen food in the grocery store, not nearly as much pre-packaged food. There are affordable fresh fruits and vegetables, and outside most grocery stores is an independent baker, butcher, fishmonger, and fruit and veg stand.
Minimum wage is $24.10 an hour, and you cannot be fired for no reason if you are a full time employee.
If you compare things (and adjust for AUD to USD) like rent, gas, milk, bread, eggs… Things cost about the same here as in the US.
We pay around the same amount in taxes, and get so much more.
Things aren’t completely rosy, distressingly, Australia seems to want to emulate the US in certain ways which worries me.
There is also currently a bit of an economic downturn and while it’s nothing like what I left behind, it does mean things cost more and luxuries have to be budgeted for.
I think anyone who isn’t a dick would be welcome here. There are racist cunts here like everywhere, but generally Aussies are the kindest and most welcoming people.
Okay I’ve read about three comments and I’m gonna need someone to explain the connotation behind the word “expat” because the only definition I can find is “Someone who resides outside their country of origin.”
Americans view the terms immigrant and immigration negatively
Term is British origin… But yeah now
The way I’ve seen it, it appears to primarily be used by the various British and former British colonies, including the US. For these groups, anyone from outside the colonies living in “our” territory is an immigrant (who is certainly a lower class!). However, if we choose to reside in another country, we are not immigrants, we are “expats”.
Not everyone uses this term, but those that do frequently congregate in English speaking enclaves and make no attempt to integrate into their new home. They often see the locals as a sort of servant class, particularly because they probably came with enough money or income to make them wealthy by local standards.
As you might imagine, people with this attitude are probably not very popular with locals.
Very online folks word lawyering to the n-th degree. Language shifts and has different meanings in different countries.
To play along, I’ve heard “expat” to refer to someone on a work appointment with a fixed timeline, say, someone who works for Microsoft being sent to France for 2 years. I’ve heard many Americans say “I’m immigrating to” to mean they are going through permeant resident or citizen pathways with the host country.
Others have a different read of the word, but as long as you aren’t a jerk wherever you are going, it won’t ever come up
Too bad some of the people who need the protection the most (disabled Americans) are unwelcome. Sucks to be us I guess.
Unwelcome where, exactly?
Why would I want people from a less privileged country coming here and stealing our jobs, putting a burden on our healthcare system and making housing even more expensive?
Congratulations America, you’re now the english language Mexico… with worse Tacos.
This is what so many don’t understand. Other countries don’t want us. Why would they?
If you have some skill that they are short on. That is the main reason. In that way you aren’t just some filthy American, your a skilled worker.
That excludes most of us. For example I’m a pricing analyst. Doubt they’d even need me, let alone all the people working retail or customer service positions.
Yeah most of the auto mechanics probably voted for Trump, but a lot didn’t. We have a ton of people working in restaurants, driving for Lyft, etc.
Most people are fucked.
This mechanic voted for Harris.
This mechanic is also never worried about anything. Republican or Democrat, your car breaks down all the same, and I’ll be waiting with a bill that doesn’t give any sort of a shit about inflation as you’re all well-aware.
And by the way? This is Trump’s point of view, and it’s hilarious to see it not called fascism just because it’s a person from another country.
Wait what? If an economy is to accept an immigrant, that immigrant should be either contributing to society, seeking asylum, or both.
Yeah. Trump has said that we’re taking in too many undesirables from other countries, and he’s bad for that.
Hey not cool don’t diss Mexico like that
I’m an American living and working in Europe for years now. It’s pretty great, although language barriers can leave you feeling a little isolated sometimes. That said, the thought of going back to the US turns my stomach. European working culture is much more… Human. More understanding about things like sick days, better vacation packages and, better worker protections.
I wish the US could be better, but it no longer looks like that will happen in my lifetime so I’ll do my best to find happiness here instead.
About language barriers: have you ever considered actually learning your host countries language?
In tech, is there really a need, though? All of this year’s new hires I’ve met communicate exclusively in English. No-one cares.
It might not be a job problem to just function, but not learning the local language makes you a bit anti-social in any other aspect.
Of course. But learning a language as an adult is a huge challenge. I take lessons but it’s slow progress, people aren’t always understanding when you stumble or don’t know words and I’m juggling full time professional work on top of it so time and mental energy are limited.
Even after years of practice I will never not sound like a foreigner, which is distancing.
There is no need to be perfect. But it at least shows effort. I have met people who lived here for 40 years and never bothered to learn even simple words or phrases. And that lack of effort, this absolute disinterest in ones host society is, in my opinion, highly impolite and antisocial.
Any tips for someone who would want to emigrate, but doesn’t have any connections? I am an engineer and I have looked at immigration requirements for places like Canada and New Zeeland in the past and it seems like the only real shot I might have is if I work for an international company that has facilities in one of those countries.
Work is how I got in. The IT sector gives you a fair bit of mobility as a worker, an EU blue card can be obtained without a degree (but with relevant experience) if you have a company sponsor you over.
Get a job that will help you immigrate. My company hired a third party to handle most of my paper work. I still had to get apostille for everything, but then they did most of the visa work. They also paid for relocation.
The language thing can be isolating but it also drives you to learn.
I’m roughly between b2 and c1 in German after living here for 2 years. I met another American who has lived here for 12 years and spoke lower than a1 german. I could only speak to him in English. Don’t be like that guy.
I’d say currently in Germany it’s all depending on which state you pick. Bayern z.B. is the most international place I’ve ever lived. The people here (speaking from my view point) are very loving and caring. I feel my day with small talk and jokes and have no problem making friends, which is the opposite of what I read from others on the internet.
So I guess it all depends on where you live, how hard you work to integrate yourself, and most importantly is TRY to learn the language for gods sake.
Either way best of luck to you and enjoy your journey!
Wanna move and work remotely for your current company I guess? Why should we welcome you instead of someone who wants to come here to fill up a vacant position that we don’t have workforce for?
You can’t have your cake and eat it too just because you’re angry that the wrong guy got elected. There are people around the world getting bombed, they’re the people who need to get out of their country, not a tech bro that could just move to a State that reliably elected Democrats.
Mexican here. Generally, most of the population won’t be very welcoming. Talking specifically about mexico city. You see, the amount of money you make in tech in the US will allow you to stay at the very best places in the city, which pushes native people out of those districts and makes them angry in the process. However, those districts are already popular for tourists/rich immigrants and that’s probably for a reason. I guess business there benefit from this wealth availability so they will treat you well. I’m not rich so idk. Also, it’s probably not hard to emigrate here bureaucracy wise.
Speaking Spanish, you will likely do very well in mexico. Good food, good nightlife, good safety and infrastructure (assuming you stay in the good zones), etc.
Personally, having traveled to other countries (talking about US and places in Europe specifically), I love the diversity of nationalities you can find. I think different backgrounds and experiences is very important to drive innovation. I’d love to see more of that in my home country so I’m for more people emigrating to mexico. Feel free to ask questions if you are curious.
Gentrification is a problem in the US too, probably most everywhere. Mexico City would be another great culture to be in, but I’m not really interested in living in some isolated communiy though. Is it possible for a foreigner to live a reasonable middle class existence there?
Well, yes of course. Some relatives have few foreigner coworkers and they seem to be happy. (tho I don’t know them personally). Also I’ve met some foreigners through university and they seem to adapt well. But I guess it heavily depends on what kind of lifestyle you want to have.
People are usually warm and we appreciate it if you show interest in our culture and adapting here. You should be more than fine if you are mindful to that and better still if you are naturally outgoing. Good luck and hope you find a cool place to go, or things get better if you end up not moving.
Depends how they behave. If they behave like “Expats”, who don’t care about integrating into our society, don’t care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.
If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.
i barely integrate now as an american; mostly because of my neuro-divergence makes it easy for people to misread me due my intonation and body language and the number episodes of misunderstanding happened MUCH MORE frequently when i visited my potential new home country as a tourist over the last 40ish years.
i automatically qualify for citizenship for the country and i wonder what it’s going to be like if i have to live there because i have both legal and cultural claim to the country; but i’m very much american plus an american that always seems arrogant and callous to everyone no matter how much he tries.
Do you speak the country’s language already?
yes and i’ve leveraged it along w the stereotype of the entitled american tourist (thanks to my very strong american accent) to get out of most of those episodes.
Preach
Summed it up pretty well.
We love our country, and welcome you to join it. But join us - don’t bring your country’s problems here.
When I here Expat I assume asshole xD
You would literally lose your job and social life in the US if you said this in America about immigrants lol
The fact you’re getting dunked on for this comment shows how delusional people are.
I simply don’t understand the distinction between seamless integration and losing your cultural identity.
They’re synonyms to me; the positive and negative sides of the same coin.
No, they are not. Seamless integrating yourself means to be able to communicate with your environment and to accept local laws and customs. I expect someone to immigrate from e.g. a Muslim country to accept that sharia is not our law, and that he has to accept that women are allowed to speak and gay people are not to beheaded.
On the other hand, I would not ask them to lose their cultural identity. There is no reason they cannot remain Muslim and observe their own religious customs or celebrate their holidays.
I think you misread my comment if you’re going to start out like that.
I’m going to assume the rest of your comment is similarly missing the point and not read it.
I hope you have a better day.
No, I did not misread your comment. Maybe you would have understood if you had read my reply.
The very first sentence of your comment indicated you misread mine. Why waste my time reading the rest?
I am born, raised, and live in one of the most diverse cities on the planet. I could care less about you assimilating to my culture. And I definitely don’t care if you can’t speak the language.
That’s some Nazi crap to judge people like that.
It’s interesting how the top comment here and its most upvoted comment are literally Trump’s words reshuffled and phrased ‘nicely.’ When looking at the rise of the right in the European continent, I wonder how many would agree with reworded american fascist statements while condemning the fascists, like some of those ‘street interview’ videos do with public figure quotes that are attributed to individuals that the interviewees agree/disagree with.
Learning the language of the country you’re moving to should be the bare minimum of what’s expected of you. I’d suggest taking a history lesson if your goto is comparing it to Nazism, seems rather disrespectful to actual victims of the Nazi Party.
That seems to be a hard thing for many Americans and Brits to do. I have a couple American friends living in Europe who’ve learned the language and immersed themselves in the culture, but they’re exceptional. One even learned both the national and regional language. Not too many Americans who can converse in Catalan.
It may be hard, but if you want to live in a foreign country, it is the minimum requirement I would expect. Forcing your host to permanently bend over backwards just to cater for your lack of effort is most impolite.
Here in Scotland / the UK you’d be absolutely fine so long as you’re a decent person. There’s not even a language barrier beyond dialect, and dialects vary hugely within the UK and each part of the UK anyway. Just please don’t insist that your great-great-grandmother is actually from Clan MacWhatever.
What if my mom grew up across the road from Bellahouston Park?
Then it’s no wonder she left
Does establishing some kind of ancestry actually do anything? I did a whole report on my great great grandfather on my mother’s side and learned about the name and the clan. Still remember the motto and official plaid and all that jazz. Never once considered it’d ever be relevant to anything.
It is fun seeing “nec sorte, nec fato” pop up ocassionally tho.
It might allow you to join the clan as a social club, essentially. A fair few of them have newsletters and run events where they get together, so it can be a good network. It doesn’t affect the day-to-day life of the average person, though
I live in southwestern England, and make it clear that I have no ancestral ties to the place, I just like living there. People seem OK with that answer.
I’m in the UK, and I work with a LOT of Americans already, so know this first hand:
- You fuckers are always in for a culture shock when you realise that everywhere isn’t like London. You seem to either expect London or Harry Potter Land, but when you end up somewhere like Bristol, Leeds, or Birmingham the frame of reference just dies and you see the wheels turning in your head trying to make sense of it all.
- Weirdly, you seem to really like our supermarkets. They’re a lot smaller than yours, meal deals are a novelty that never gets old, and paying the price on the tag is the greatest thing ever.
- You love our bread, and our chocolate is like crack to you. You’d think that you’d moved to France or something…
- Butter on bread will fuck you up. You use Mayo all the time, but we use butter/spread, and it messes with your minds.
- You quickly learn that Europe is a continent, and that cultures across the continent are very different to one another. You also learn that no one knows US history that well, or that we had a war with you (since we have basically had a war with everyone at some point).
- The drinking culture is a really interesting one. Some love it, some hate it. It’s a staple of British life
- We get paid a lot less than you do, but your money will go much further because you’re not spending it on healthcare. You’ll also get taxed a lot, but ultimately you’ll earn enough to be comfortable, and a comfortable life in the UK is nice.
To answer your question, you’re more than welcome here, and it’s much easier to get a visa to the UK for you than for us to go to the US. Expect some people to give you shit for Trump, but give them shit back for Brexit and electing the Tories for 15 years.
Now we’re talking. I have been to the UK quite a bit, and work with plenty of Brits here, so:
Americans are not generally in the habit of addressing people as “you fuckers” until we know you better. :)
UK supermarkets are more like US conveniences stores with more food and no fuel pumps in front. They are OK.
Agreed, the existence of anything besides London, Liverpool, and maybe Manchester is totally a blank to us. Went to Birmingham, had no ckue.
Butter on bread is the only way, don’t know where you got that from.
No reason you guys should care about US history. English history is much more interesting.
Engkish pubs are good. Beer, I think, has gotten better in the US recently.
After Brexit, the UK has permanently renounced the right to criticize anyone’s politics. Still, recent developments there give me hope that it’s possible to come out the other end of this.
Thank you.
Ireland is full of tech jobs that pay well and that’s the only way to live well here right now since basics are so expensive. Housing is a big issue, but that’s not just our problem. Come on over, you’d be welcomed.
I don’t know why but this is the first place I actually thought to move after Trump won again… I’ve never even been able to afford a house here…
I would love to take my family to some place that is more accepting of interracial relationships/children. because we all knew it was racist country but I didn’t realize how racist it was until trump won again…
I could see them trying to end interracial marriage just like they want to outlaw same sex…
Ireland has its share of racists unfortunately but also fairly open. It’s a changing country.
Yeah racists are everywhere unfortunately… I don’t get it… I know there is a huge drinking problem… But it’s Ireland you have to kinda expect that
I’m not sure but it might be less of a problem with younger generations. They seem to be all round healthier which is great
Yeah bloody racists. It’s bringing out the anti racists though which is also great to see.
I would absolutely love to be in Ireland! Well, I mostly just want to sit and listen to the elderly talk about the days before they went to shit.
That sounds like you want to listen to taxi drivers. Elderly people know that things are better now than before.
Yeah… I just remembered my History classes covering Ireland - it’s much better. And boy oh boy if I could afford taxi’s!
Weird way to talk about immigrants
