cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/44616333
President Donald Trump left out a key detail this week when he outlined his plans for a massive missile and air defense shield over the continent: He can’t build it without Canada.
Ottawa has historically funded about 40 percent of NORAD investments, according to VanHerck, and is putting $38 billion into the command to add new radars in the north over the next two decades. Without those investments — and additional sensors that can peer over the North Pole — officials believe the U.S. will have trouble putting together a credible North American air defense.
Yes, which is why he’s been told to make Canada and Greenland US territories.
Historically, this has been an easy sell. If the US gets nuked, Canada is just as fucked. Canada was happy to host US early warning radar throughout the Cold War.
The fact that it’s not an easy sell now highlights how bad Trump is at everything. You never needed The Art of the Deal to set this up in the past.
Canada was happy to host US early warning radar throughout the Cold War.
Canada can still do it. Just, now, the US will bankroll the build and pull data from Canadian gear.
… As long as they play nice and pay their bills.
That’s bcz the art of the deal is a lie The Apprentice show sold everyone to make Trump look like an intelligent business person. They’re probably half the reason MAGA people think he’s a genius businessman.
The other half is they perceive him as a gangster, and they like gangsters.
They like white gangsters. Insert Family Guy “OKAY” vs. “NOT OKAY” skin tone sign.
When he ‘wrote’ the book he did an unbelievably bad deal with the co-author. That guy got his name on the cover and half the royalties. He’s never stopped talking about what a chump Donnie is.
The fact that it’s not an easy sell now highlights how bad Trump is at everything.
What Trump is pitching is the same snake oil Reaganite “Star Wars” program that was scrapped 30 years ago. The Israeli Iron Dome can’t beat Yemeni intercontinental bottle rockets, nevermind Iranian SCUD missiles. These programs don’t meaningfully protect a country that is under bombardment. They’re wingnut welfare for the MIC and always have been.
The only successful nuclear deterrent was detente. JFK picking up a telephone and telling Khruschev “We’ll pull our Jupiter Missiles out of Turkey if you pull your missile out of Cuba” saved the world from nuclear annihilation. The fantasy of missile defense only escalates these conflicts.
The “Golden Dome” system is almost certainly more bullshit from Trump not because it’s infeasible but because we can’t afford to build it. At least not right now.
What Trump is pitching is the same snake oil Reaganite “Star Wars” program that was scrapped 30 years ago.
SDI never really ended and research on the core technologies continue to this day. Things like Patriot and NIKE came out of the program some 20 years ago and we’re now starting to get the energy weapon systems that Reagan envisioned.
The Israeli Iron Dome can’t beat Yemeni intercontinental bottle rockets, nevermind Iranian SCUD missiles.
Iron Dome does an amazingly good job at defending from the threats it was designed to handle. It wasn’t meant to deal with MRBM or ICBM threats.
These programs don’t meaningfully protect a country that is under bombardment.
Effective defense from MRBM and ICBM attack has been technically possible for nearly two decades however installing a GBMD system of that size would bankrupt the United States several times over. The missiles it uses are a hundred million a piece if IIRC and we’d need tens of thousands of them.
What’s changed is that Ground Based Directed Energy Weapons of sufficient power, a direct result of SDI, to interdict ICBMS will be available in the near future. The US Military is already fielding lower power systems like the DE M-SHORAD and everyone from Lockheed to Raytheon has 1MW (or higher) GBDEW systems starting testing this year.
Hell the British already have their Dragonfire system, rated at 300KW, not only built but scheduled to be put on Navy Vessels in 2027 and the US Navy has had a system like this for nearly a decade already.
The fantasy of missile defense only escalates these conflicts.
Missile defense isn’t a fantasy, the short range version has been around for a long while now. Medium and Long Range has been possible for two decades it’s just been wildly unaffordable at scale. That is about to change.
Iron Dome does an amazingly good job at defending from the threats it was designed to handle
So did the Maginot Line
The most conservative estimate I’ve seen for the IDs intercept rate is 80% and many sources claim 90% or even 95%. I’m am not a fan of the Israeli Government but its beyond question that the ID system does an excellent job at countering the threat it was designed to handle.
The most conservative estimate I’ve seen for the IDs intercept rate is 80%
IDF report highlights failure of air-defense system on Oct. 7
Israel’s air defense system failed to intercept half of the rockets fired by Hamas on Oct. 7, 2023, Hebrew media reported on Sunday.
The finding is based on an Israel Defense Forces investigation whose findings were presented to the military’s chief of staff, according to Channel 12 News.
…
In the first 20 minutes of the attack, Hamas fired an unprecedented 1,400 rockets into Israel. Many Iron Dome batteries were depleted in the face of the massive barrage, according to Channel 12
Pretty textbook strategy in the face of missile defense systems. Anti-missile systems typically need two to three munitions to counter one attack. This math hasn’t changed since the ID was created.
The primary mechanism Israel has to protect its citizens is its network of air raid sirens and fallout shelters. The secondary mechanism is the threat of retaliation (to the point of systematic genocide of a region) which requires an enormous perpetually-standing army. The ID is only materially beneficial in combating small scale, low-frequency attacks. And only when they have ample time to repair and reload. And even then, the modern IDF has been rife with nepotism, graft, and institutional neglect such that a lot of their military readiness has degraded.
NOW yesterday’s posts about Trump being “in talks” with Canada make sense.
This system is a ridiculous boondoggle anyway, but Trump thinks it’s vital. Canada, you’ve got Trump by the balls. Don’t waste this opportunity!
I think the latest understanding of the impacts from the calibre of nuclear weapons we have now is if anyone is nuked we are all fucked regardless of location but sadly that doesn’t seem like enough of a deterrent :/
You’re misunderstanding it. Everyone can make a safe deal. The art is fucking it up.
He’s lying through his teeth when he says it will ONLY cost $125 billion and take 3 years. It will likely take $500 billion and take 10 years if it even survives the budget of the next president. This is going to be such a massive, massive waste of time and money that the US will be actually vulnerable to the perceived enemies that we aren’t vulnerable to now. He’s going to kill useful programs in order to pay for this thing that will never work.
Oh he’ll make it happen before he leaves (yeah yeah he might not leave)
Whether it’ll be done, he’ll probably force them to throw that shit up by early 2028
I know for a fact that parts of it can be built now. Everyone is in these comments trying to pretend that its still 1983 (the year Reagan announced SDI) while ignoring the fact that PATRIOT, NIKE, and THAAD have existed for two decades. Never mind that DE M-SHORAD, DRAGONFIRE and some others are already in production in various countries.
This ain’t 1983. Many things considered impossible 42 years ago are so routine in 2025 that we take them for granted.
“Parts of it can be built” is doing a lot of legwork, when they have to double the amount of interceptors for every missile thrown out, I’ll admit!
The tracking and fire control systems already exist. The show stopper right now in 2025 is the cost; mostly because the needed missiles are ungodly expensive and you need so many of them.
The math and physics problems of SDI (Reagan’s Star Wars) hasn’t changed. I guess this is yet another lesson of history we’ve forgotten, even though so many in the political realm were around then.
They know. The contractors will pocket billions and say R&D didn’t pan out. Trump probably doesn’t know or care though.
The math and physics problems of SDI (Reagan’s Star Wars) hasn’t changed.
42 years of engineering evolution means we can build things now that were impossible back then. The US Army’s DE M-SHORAD and the British Dragonfire, two different High Energy Laser Systems that are already in production, are examples.
The US now has space based quantum sensing systems for God’s sake. That shit was literally unimaginable in 1983!
“Quantum Radar” would have been straight Science Fiction back then and yet at least the US and Australia have already built test systems for it.
The Scientists and Engineers of 1983, even the ones working on SDI, would likely have told you that the SmartPhone in your pocket right now was impossible and could never be built. The screen alone would have had them cumming in their pants and the camera system and processing power in the thing would have blown their minds.
SDI was a long time ago. May as well compare a 1983 Chevy to a 2025 LUCID EV.
This might be late because Canada is already in high level talks to make it happen.
There’s no reason to be a part of this - just like their previous missile defense program. Hard no.
Bad news for Trump’s Golden Dome: He can’t build it
without Canadaftfy
while I don’t know who fed him this idea, I have a bad feeling that America will be shooting a bunch of shit up past orbit and accidentally make it irretrievable and potentially effect what we’d rather not currently have be touched by humans
Well, I guess I’ll have to annex Canada.
Time for Canada to claim ita 4th Territory
Easy. Just invade Canada \s
Can you stop legitimizing this bullshit? Nobody wants this.
You say that like it’s not the pretext he’ll use to try it.
