Y’know…this. I might not like it, and many of their choices are… questionable…
…but I think it’s good we have some effort coming from full-time career paid Linux developers, rather than just sponsorship money from FOSS-leeches like “mEtA” and “aMaZoN.”
By simply not using Ubuntu, and ignoring the MOTD on my VM servers…I don’t really feel affected by their actions in any meaningful way. And that makes me happy.
As opposed to having to just accept whatever new footgun Microsoft wants to blast users with next.
Same they did before or red hat does or every other corporation who has benefitted from the labor of open source developers. Services built on those things or built around them. Not the things themselves. Their corporate customers benefit from the stuff they produce, but they didn’t produce most of it,so either start from scratch with, propriety software, or they need to give the content to everyone at the same time, not hold onto it for some time. That’s against the whole idea of open source and probably technically violates some copyleft licenses, but definitely violates the spirit of them. Even if they fix some bugs or add some features, they didn’t come up with the ideas, build the thing while it wasn’t producing income, or build the communities that they collaborate with. They just add what benefits them to the existing content.
You mean things like cloud-init, juju, a ton of work they do directly upstream on openstack, hardware certifications (which include things like getting vendors to upstream their drivers into the mainline kernel — something even Google has struggled with for Android), and making it more feasible for more companies to run Linux by providing the sort of long-term support that the community just doesn’t prioritise?
You do not seriously think all canonical has done is snaps and Gnome.
Is building one of the most popular linux desktop environments and distros not enough to sell a paid support package to the users who want it? I dont think thats unfair.
They invented a solution to sell user data to Amazon, does that count?
They also have a bunch of knock-off products like canonical aws, canonical terraform-ansible, canonical k8s, etc.
This isn’t a decade ago, when Ubuntu was … leagues more generally user friendly than most other distros.
It was crap a decade ago that’s why everyone was already installing mint, and only slightly less crap almost 2 decades ago. I installed Linux for the first time around 2006, and Ubuntu was no different than one of the first versions of opensuse. The whole “Ubuntu is for beginners” hype was literally all due to them sending free install CDs.
Hah, fair enough, I was still a Linux n00b back in even 2012.
I have tried to study the history I missed in retrospect, but it sounds like you just directly experienced it starting from an earlier point in time than I did.
Oh so was I. During the early opensuse I was a teen playing with new toys after reading about Linux in a pc mag. I’ve only started seriously using Linux around 2010-2013.
Hardware support and working with manufacturers to bring linux support, vendor support bringing mainstream apps to linux, advertising linux laptops and getting it in front of people all around the world, Wayland, gnome, accessibility, a ton shit way to much to list. Just because the improvements are done for Ubuntu doesnt mean they arent useful on other distros. Its free software after all the rising tide lifts all boats. Canonical arent a huge mega corp raking in cash. They cant compare to giants like redhat.
one of the most popular linux desktop environments and distros
Oh you mean the DE they abandoned almost 10 years ago?
Is selling user data to Amazon and harvesting data illegally from Azure VMs not enough for users to tell them to stick their terminal ads up their ass? I don’t think that’s unfair.
I know that guy is a crazy tankie, I’ve see him around. What he brought up is a bunch of shit intended to waste time. He doesnt care about any of those things so trying to argue is a waste of time and most of its untrue or misleading.
… then just block him, if you don’t enjoy interacting with him?
But also, nothing he’s said here is untrue or misleading.
Its, again, also quite relevant to a discussion of Canonincal’s business practices and how they contribute to Linux more broadly.
If you don’t know, about a decade ago, Canonical kind of fucked over GNOME, said they’d make their own DE, and then basically never did.
Hence my earlier quip about Canonical being the reason GNOME devs are… lets say, very strong willed.
GNOME != Canonical.
The only actual numbers I can find are that Canonical donates $120k a year to all other open source projects, but I can’t find any breakdown of how much of that $120k goes to GNOME, or what those projects are.
… This is part of why I was asking if you could clarify for me, what it is that Canonical does exactly, in terms of helping out the Linux ecosystem.
What do you think canonical should charge for? They do put a ton of work into the linux eco system
Y’know…this. I might not like it, and many of their choices are… questionable…
…but I think it’s good we have some effort coming from full-time career paid Linux developers, rather than just sponsorship money from FOSS-leeches like “mEtA” and “aMaZoN.”
By simply not using Ubuntu, and ignoring the MOTD on my VM servers…I don’t really feel affected by their actions in any meaningful way. And that makes me happy.
As opposed to having to just accept whatever new footgun Microsoft wants to blast users with next.
If you don’t want amazon in GNU/Linux, Ubuntu probably isn’t the best choice
Same they did before or red hat does or every other corporation who has benefitted from the labor of open source developers. Services built on those things or built around them. Not the things themselves. Their corporate customers benefit from the stuff they produce, but they didn’t produce most of it,so either start from scratch with, propriety software, or they need to give the content to everyone at the same time, not hold onto it for some time. That’s against the whole idea of open source and probably technically violates some copyleft licenses, but definitely violates the spirit of them. Even if they fix some bugs or add some features, they didn’t come up with the ideas, build the thing while it wasn’t producing income, or build the communities that they collaborate with. They just add what benefits them to the existing content.
Red Hat charge for access to the RHEL binaries. That’s literally why CentOS came into existence.
Entirely seriously:
Such as what exactly?
… Developing… Snaps?
Like, no, really, what do they do?
Are they why GNOME devs are insufferable?
You mean things like cloud-init, juju, a ton of work they do directly upstream on openstack, hardware certifications (which include things like getting vendors to upstream their drivers into the mainline kernel — something even Google has struggled with for Android), and making it more feasible for more companies to run Linux by providing the sort of long-term support that the community just doesn’t prioritise?
You do not seriously think all canonical has done is snaps and Gnome.
Is building one of the most popular linux desktop environments and distros not enough to sell a paid support package to the users who want it? I dont think thats unfair.
No, I was genuienly asking.
Yep, they make a distro.
Lots of orgs make distros.
This isn’t a decade ago, when Ubuntu was … leagues more generally user friendly than most other distros.
What do they do for the broader linux ecosystem, outside of their own distro, other than snaps?
You said they contribute to the ecosystem.
How do they do that?
They invented a solution to sell user data to Amazon, does that count?
They also have a bunch of knock-off products like canonical aws, canonical terraform-ansible, canonical k8s, etc.
It was crap a decade ago that’s why everyone was already installing mint, and only slightly less crap almost 2 decades ago. I installed Linux for the first time around 2006, and Ubuntu was no different than one of the first versions of opensuse. The whole “Ubuntu is for beginners” hype was literally all due to them sending free install CDs.
Hah, fair enough, I was still a Linux n00b back in even 2012.
I have tried to study the history I missed in retrospect, but it sounds like you just directly experienced it starting from an earlier point in time than I did.
Oh so was I. During the early opensuse I was a teen playing with new toys after reading about Linux in a pc mag. I’ve only started seriously using Linux around 2010-2013.
Hardware support and working with manufacturers to bring linux support, vendor support bringing mainstream apps to linux, advertising linux laptops and getting it in front of people all around the world, Wayland, gnome, accessibility, a ton shit way to much to list. Just because the improvements are done for Ubuntu doesnt mean they arent useful on other distros. Its free software after all the rising tide lifts all boats. Canonical arent a huge mega corp raking in cash. They cant compare to giants like redhat.
I’ll grant you that they are not redhat, but again, tons of other teams behind other distros do some or all of what you just mentioned.
And… almost all, if not nearly all of them, do not monetize their OS.
Is… Canonical uniquely important, in some way?
Poof them out of existence, and what, outside of their own direct projects, breaks?
Oh you mean the DE they abandoned almost 10 years ago?
Is selling user data to Amazon and harvesting data illegally from Azure VMs not enough for users to tell them to stick their terminal ads up their ass? I don’t think that’s unfair.
Fuck off Tankie, I will not fall for your concern trolling bait today.
I mean, I also dislike tankies, but simply having a .ml user account does not automatically make someone a tankie.
Also, they’re not concern trolling.
What they brought up is highly, directly relevant, and it also is not a hypothetical, its … just reality.
I don’t think you know what ‘tankie’ or ‘concern trolling’ mean.
I know that guy is a crazy tankie, I’ve see him around. What he brought up is a bunch of shit intended to waste time. He doesnt care about any of those things so trying to argue is a waste of time and most of its untrue or misleading.
… then just block him, if you don’t enjoy interacting with him?
But also, nothing he’s said here is untrue or misleading.
Its, again, also quite relevant to a discussion of Canonincal’s business practices and how they contribute to Linux more broadly.
If you don’t know, about a decade ago, Canonical kind of fucked over GNOME, said they’d make their own DE, and then basically never did.
Hence my earlier quip about Canonical being the reason GNOME devs are… lets say, very strong willed.
GNOME != Canonical.
The only actual numbers I can find are that Canonical donates $120k a year to all other open source projects, but I can’t find any breakdown of how much of that $120k goes to GNOME, or what those projects are.
… This is part of why I was asking if you could clarify for me, what it is that Canonical does exactly, in terms of helping out the Linux ecosystem.
Ok shill. Where’s your canonical DE?
Oh, uh, that’s over at PopOS!, who are basically actually doing / trying to do what Canonical said they were gonna do, 5-10 years ago.
Oh I know, just making fun of the shill.