Who’s in this pic and doesn’t like it? Not me, of course, because I don’t work for an evil company directly, I just help their operations through a middle man. So I work for several evil companies, but only a tiny little bit for each, which in the grand scheme of evil is nearly nothing!
Me too!
I used to work in long-tailed litigated liability insurance claims. Think asbestos, lead paint, toxic exposures, etc. Insurance comes into play for defending companies against lawsuits made by people suffering from those exposures. I rationalized it to myself for a year and a half (if we don’t pay for the company’s defense attorneys, we couldn’t pay the claimants their settlements; we’re just following the contract; at this point, the big players are bankrupt, so the claimants are just going after easy targets; etc.), but it makes the world worse and I eventually quit.
I looked at other aspects of the industry, but there really wasn’t a role that I could feel totally comfortable with. At best, I felt like I I worked for the organization which gave earth “adequate notice” for the hyperspace bypass in hitchhikers guide.
I went back to school and now I teach new immigrants the local language. It took a lot of work and I make less money, but holy shit was it worth it.
we are gonna get so many more of these types of movies when this everything bubble pops…depressed yeah
I don’t think my company is evil, but it’s definitely not my favorite industry.
New manga title dropped.
“…in another world” is missing.
Everything is relative to your prospective.
I worked 10 years for a major EU defense contractor. Mostly on civilian projects, but not exclusively. For many years, I hid my employer from acquaintances & friends - when asked, I would just say “I work in software”. After I left that company, one of the anti-tank missile systems I had a very (very) small part developing started to tear the fuck up Russian tanks across Ukrainian farm lands.
I don’t hide that history today.
This is just moral luck. My opinion is that your work was very unethical from the get-go and you just happened to be happy with the outcome. It’s like saying you are ashamed of speeding in your car, until some day, when you crashed into Elon Musk.
My opinion is that your work was very unethical from the get-go
Calling any form of military “unethical” is the absolute peak level of clueless wishful thinking.
I think it depends on whether you work on actual defense systems rather than assault systems.
Anti missile systems for example.
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pfft bye-bye? ok i’ll talk to the hand.
You’re human shit. You said as much. Don’t down vote me because I hate you, and everything you set in motion. All the harm you caused. Drop dead creep.
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wahhhh want a nappy kiddo?
“I was just following orders”.
If you look up the Nuremberg trials. The US went out of their way to not agree it was a crime unless it was following orders during “wartime”. Wartime specifically because they didn’t want to be punished for Jim Crow.
Sorry, but if you know your company is evil and you still work there, you’re evil too.
Once worked at a very major German donation-based organization as an it-admin. Wanted to do something valuable with my sparetime. What I learned there made me never donate a single cent again to any organization ever. I left on the spot, knowing they would never dare to sue because they fear the truth could come out. People could literally just not show up for weeks without explanation and wouldn’t even get a slap on the wrist. Before that I donated like 50k a year to many.
Could I work there and still call myself “a good people”? Absolutely not.
I agree and I know it’s hard to swallow, but that’s enabling.
Yes, life is hard and it’s not easy or possible for everyone to change jobs. Still.
Everyone has a choice. It might be harder for some, but it’s still a choice. Work for the evil company or not. Noone forces me at gunpoint to go to work. I’d argue it’s possible to change. Maybe not easy or fun, but possible. There may be exceptions in uncivilized countries where it’s “work or die” where it’s “me or them”.
I, personally, just couldn’t. Working for someone that’s clearly against my ethics or moral code? I would probably prefer welfare over that. Couldn’t enjoy anything I would buy from that salary. Better be poor but proud than rich and ashamed of myself.
Agreed but at some point I am forced to work “at gunpoint” because I have a wide and kids who need a house and food and cars. I’m jealous of anyone in a position to simply quit.
I work for a company that works for another company in the hospitality industry. The software system is being updated (in part of a much broader system change) to no longer allow non-binary or unspecified gender. We aren’t writing that part, but have to support it. I consider it a shortsighted and cruel change. But I’ve also spent a 7 of the last 30 months looking for work.
I’m not walking away just because of this change. Instead I’m making sure our software is easy to change back when world is ready for that once again. That’s the best I can do, and I’ve worked for companies engaged in much greater evil.
When I got hired on a contract for Uline I’d never heard of them. Then I found out that are huge contributors to the Republican Party and I was glad when they decided to replace me on that contract, but I couldn’t just walk away. That was the most morally conflicted I’ve ever been at a job. But it gave my family the means to thrive, and that is my first goal.
It’s fair to acknowledge the reality that it’s not easy or even instant and the market sucks at the moment. I’d say even looking for work would be better than nothing. You have to do what you have to do.
I don’t think the gender thing is being evil. You’re literally required to support that and you’re doing your best. That’s not really in your or your companies control.
Yes basically capitalism is rigged and at some point we are forced. Hence wage slaves.
That’s why we need to slow down the bastards and be as incompetent as possible in these positions.
Correct.
A person who knows about evil and continues to participate in perpetuating it?
That is the definition of complicit.
You either quit, become a hypocrite and coward, or embrace and justify the evil.
Left, liberal, conservative.
Thats pretty much how USAmerican terminology for politics/society works.
Okay which ethical company hires for a senior C/C++ developer?
We have an internship ready for you 👍
You might try some kind of open source non profit.
No guarantees, but likely at least less evil.
From personal experience, I went that route (open source non profit) and it ended up being a shit show, i wouldn’t assume it’s better. I think going the route of just producing things people want to make their life easier is somewhat reasonable. I’ve been having a bit of a time sorting this out myself.
I’ve done that, and found the same.
But, this person asked for less unethical.
Not ‘and also, of similar competence.’
At this point I really do think we need to be forming something like Mondragon-esque, worker governed co-ops, collectives.
Unions aren’t enough.
I’m only the SS’s IT guy, I don’t do that stuff. I’m still a good person. They’re gonna pay for my college.
“I’m just a willing cog in the machine that produces death and destruction, for my own personal benefit.”
“I’m just doing what I have to do to get by.”
I very much hope you are joking / doing this as a bit, because if you are serious, you are a hypocrite and a coward.
The state of discourse is so dire I’m gonna have to workshop a way to make the “Schutzstaffel IT Guy” bit more obvious.
Yeah I mean, at this point, I can very easily see someone saying that very genuienly, or very sarcastically.
Hence why I asked.
Glad to know you were indeed doing a bit, but uh yeah, I’m autistic enough that I just ask, because I have encountered a large number of people who would just ssy things like that, entirely seriously.
I think a good step would be if people could admit the companies they work for are making the world worse. I’ve met some people who work for Google who do some backflips about how no the company is good and definitely they’re good people and it’s not the $300k salary talking.
Seriously for all the protests and walkouts over Gaza last year, my main thought was “didn’t you know MSFT/Google/Meta is literally evil?”
I can’t blame anyone for wanting a stable income, but you might as well be working for Lockheed Martin. There’s a reason why these megacorps stay in an oligopoly at the top, and it has nothing to do with talent or quality solutions.
I don’t work for Google, and you’re not wrong, but I am not sure they’re totally wrong either. I honestly believe that a majority of companies around today are making the world worse, at least, for most companies there’s an argument that can be made. I’m having some difficulty thinking of an exception right now.
The sad reality is, name a company that isn’t evil to someone and a blessing to someone else.
People love shopping at that shithole Walmart, the convenience and costs, the company’s business practices are fucking ruthless.
there are companies that just provide a good service/product/app without much controversy. unless you’re one of those “capitalism is inherently evil” people.
Capitalism is inherently evil… it’s built on exploiting workers through economic coercion by rich capital owners who don’t, the labor is not rewarded as much as the hoarding of capital.
Still, we live in a capitalist society, and businesses can be not objectively evil, and we have to support those business and boycott objectively evil ones.
Tell me more about how capitalism aims to provide a good/product/service/app whatever? And then explain how it’s actually green living green since you didn’t build a home because daddy gave you one he already had?
There are specialized niche services/domains in B2B professional services and engineering where it’s honestly difficult to be evil due to the nature of the domain and because it’s B2B.
One could argue you are are still enabling evil companies, which is fair, but at least you’re not really harming anyone.
Oh look, its literally everyone who works in HR and Marketing, tech industry or not!
HR: You gaslight workers.
Marketing: You gaslight consumers.
The article reads like the inner monologue of every six figure tech neoliberal.
You are a good person unless it financially benefits you not to be therefore not a good person.
So do we really think that everyone who works at Google or Microsoft is a bad person? Let me remind you that Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates has given billions to charity. He’s probably not a saint, but is he a net positive or a net negative to the world?
Net positive and net negative… there are 8 billion people and that in and of itself is a problem. Should we fault every human on the planet for being part of the problem? “I was just following orders,” someone in the comments said. Biological directives to mate and reproduce and raise a family. Two people having more than two children between them are increasing the population. If you have three kids, and you’re the father, if there are two different mothers, it’s the same equation. Three adults replaced by three children (after so many years). But population is increasing, not decreasing. We’re all part of the problem. Are we all evil?
That’s not the way I see it. I don’t think it’s fair to judge the individual by the group. I think a person can still be a good person even if they’re part of something that is not good. If you agree with me on overpopulation but not the company in OP’s post, do you draw the line at being able to help it? Like if you’re one of 12 kids you can’t help that, so maybe you adopt when you’re ready to have kids, instead of actually bringing more into the world? So most people can’t help where they work on account of your hopes and wishes won’t pay their bills. You can will them to do the right thing, but you’re not the one responsible for paying their bills, and if they get their lights shut off, their car taken, or evicted, you can draw the shades and say “that’s not my problem.” So why should you get a say? Are you willing to support their families? No, you are not.
But at the same time, I also recognise that some organisations are evil, some governments are evil, and those who enable them do own some responsibility for that. I just don’t think it’s the final say in who a person is.
Bill Gates is a bad example. That motherfucker was the most evil corporate asshole in the 90’s. He has rehabilitated his image, but net positive is a bridge too far.
As for the rest, I appreciate the nuance. But Bill Gates can go fuck himself. It’s easy to be generous with money stolen from somewhere else.
He bent the knee to Trump. With his personal wealth and influence he could’ve said no. But profits over people.
Started off fine for roughly a dozen words, then you jump right into Bill Gates.
Bill Gates who was great friends with Jeffrey Epstein, a monopolist, and most recently, worked tirelessly to prevent the sharing of the covid vaccine technology because it would harm the profits of his friends in big pharma.
I think your world view needs adjusting.
