It’s so moronic how I 2 days ago was downvoted to oblivion for claiming that […] he can shut down the midterm election, because the federal agencies have higher jurisdiction than local authorities.
You should be downvoted because that’s not how jurisdiction or granted powers or authority work relative to the constitution. Like yeah, he can:
tell the Supreme Court to make him king of his kangaroo kingdom
burn down polling stations and arrest everyone who shows up
have his House speaker refuse to swear in “contested” elections and hang all representatives that jump to the nascent quorum in the new, legitimate House
topple state governments and only allow loyalists to be appointed, thus abolishing state elections
Could those things happen? Sure. But that’s not the same thing as keeping a continuity of legitimate governance in any sense of the phrase. You’re just describing things that anyone could do with a handful of cronies and an occupying army. He emphatically does not have to mechanism to change the constitution to sanction those actions.
Calling any of that “in his jurisdiction” is dumb as fuck and preemptively legitimizing a hostile occupation. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of American political institutions and encourages fatalistic defeatism.
that’s not the same thing as keeping a continuity of legitimate governance in any sense of the phrase.
Of course it wouldn’t be legitimate by traditional standards, but do you really think Trump gives a shit?
How many dictators are legitimate? He will fake legitimacy, he will gaslight and confuse, and when the dust settles it’s to late.
I’m saying he can do it because he has the control necessary to do it, not because the power of having that control makes it legitimate. Whatever gave you that crazy idea???
The problem is that federal agencies can override local authorities. And to decide it was done illegally, takes years to decide, but when the dictator has total power it’s too late anyway, and the court that will decide the issue will be rigged to favor those in power.
In this concrete case FBI overrides local authorities by making it a case about terrorism! A completely made up claim that makes no sense.
What do you think the local authorities can do to prevent that? In cases of dispute Federal jurisdiction trumps local by default in all situations I know of.
You’re just describing things that anyone could do with a handful of cronies
No, nobody has cleared out the agencies to instate their own people like Trump has done.
And it has taken decades for the Republicans to get a solid majority of the supreme court. And they are doing Trump’s bidding.
Nobody has been hiring fanatics for their own police (ICE) like Trump has done.
And nobody has taken control with the national guard as Trump has done.
And finally nobody has stacked the White House Administration with people who despise democracy like Trump has done.
You are being naive bordering on the criminal. Trump is clearly putting the pieces in play, and taking control of them.
Because there is nothing giving the federal government jurisdiction over state elections, it is very explicitly a power reserved to the states. As I’ve said, they can go far beyond their jurisdiction to interfere but there is nothing that can happen to grant them the constitutional power.
it wouldn’t be legitimate by traditional standards
No, this phrasing right here is the problem☝️
IT WOULD NOT BE LEGITIMATE BY ANY STANDARD. THE USA WOULD BE OCCUPIED BY A HOSTILE FORCE
The difference between those two things is the difference between your EU neolib governments covering their eyes and going about business as usual and actually responding to the crisis that it is. That recognition is very real and tangible both in the USA and internationally.
Holy fuck just stop talking about US governance if you don’t know what you’re saying. Declaring a state’s elected officials are terrorists or putting them in jail does not remove them from office.
Edit because I assume I got blocked:
They may have other ways
They do not
They do not
They do not
They do not
They do not
For everyone’s own sake we need learn to reject fascist legalese. There are sometimes very goddamn clear lines and you can’t carry their water by assuming they can cross them.
They may have other ways, under martial law they can do whatever the fuck they want, especially when you don’t give a crap about the law, and only twist it to serve your own agenda.
They don’t give a crap about justification, they are so far gone now, they often don’t even give a shit about plausible justification. They just use whatever paragraph suits their purpose.
Of course if try to hold an election when Trump under martial law has said not to. And those are labeled terrorists or enemies of the state, then those officials will be jailed. And jails to keep them are being built as we speak.
Again you’re conflating their dubious federal powers of immigration enforcement + “self defense” against a well defined and core process of election. People can disingenuously argue frame-by-frame on a video about “intent” or “threats” all day. You can’t let them do the same to the clearly written, fundamental legal structure of the country.
you’re conflating their dubious federal powers of immigration enforcement
Not at all, I’m looking at the overall behavior of Trump, and hes disregard for the law. The kidnapping of Maduro was also illegal, both by international and American law. Even if USA doesn’t give a shit about international law, he was required to ask permission from congress.
You can’t let them do the same to the clearly written, fundamental legal structure of the country.
What?? But he is already doing that left and right!!! He already attempted a coup! Completely against the constitution. Something he should be in jail for, and undetectable for any public office for the rest of his life. Why are you arguing so hard against obvious evidence?
He has also used his presidential powers to go after people that were against him! And interfered in investigations where he has clear personal interests.
Trump breaks the law constantly, he is a pattern criminal. Why would you think that with the power to make USA a totalitarian nation he wouldn’t do so?
And who do you imagine will stop him, if he has the control of the entire federal system?
You should be downvoted because that’s not how jurisdiction or granted powers or authority work relative to the constitution. Like yeah, he can:
Could those things happen? Sure. But that’s not the same thing as keeping a continuity of legitimate governance in any sense of the phrase. You’re just describing things that anyone could do with a handful of cronies and an occupying army. He emphatically does not have to mechanism to change the constitution to sanction those actions.
Calling any of that “in his jurisdiction” is dumb as fuck and preemptively legitimizing a hostile occupation. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of American political institutions and encourages fatalistic defeatism.
Of course it wouldn’t be legitimate by traditional standards, but do you really think Trump gives a shit?
How many dictators are legitimate? He will fake legitimacy, he will gaslight and confuse, and when the dust settles it’s to late.
I’m saying he can do it because he has the control necessary to do it, not because the power of having that control makes it legitimate. Whatever gave you that crazy idea???
The problem is that federal agencies can override local authorities. And to decide it was done illegally, takes years to decide, but when the dictator has total power it’s too late anyway, and the court that will decide the issue will be rigged to favor those in power.
In this concrete case FBI overrides local authorities by making it a case about terrorism! A completely made up claim that makes no sense.
What do you think the local authorities can do to prevent that? In cases of dispute Federal jurisdiction trumps local by default in all situations I know of.
No, nobody has cleared out the agencies to instate their own people like Trump has done.
And it has taken decades for the Republicans to get a solid majority of the supreme court. And they are doing Trump’s bidding.
Nobody has been hiring fanatics for their own police (ICE) like Trump has done.
And nobody has taken control with the national guard as Trump has done.
And finally nobody has stacked the White House Administration with people who despise democracy like Trump has done.
You are being naive bordering on the criminal. Trump is clearly putting the pieces in play, and taking control of them.
Because there is nothing giving the federal government jurisdiction over state elections, it is very explicitly a power reserved to the states. As I’ve said, they can go far beyond their jurisdiction to interfere but there is nothing that can happen to grant them the constitutional power.
No, this phrasing right here is the problem☝️
IT WOULD NOT BE LEGITIMATE BY ANY STANDARD. THE USA WOULD BE OCCUPIED BY A HOSTILE FORCE
The difference between those two things is the difference between your EU neolib governments covering their eyes and going about business as usual and actually responding to the crisis that it is. That recognition is very real and tangible both in the USA and internationally.
Which is completely irrelevant, if they are declared terrorists that are trying to destroy America.
Holy fuck just stop talking about US governance if you don’t know what you’re saying. Declaring a state’s elected officials are terrorists or putting them in jail does not remove them from office.
Edit because I assume I got blocked:
They do not They do not They do not They do not They do not
For everyone’s own sake we need learn to reject fascist legalese. There are sometimes very goddamn clear lines and you can’t carry their water by assuming they can cross them.
They may have other ways, under martial law they can do whatever the fuck they want, especially when you don’t give a crap about the law, and only twist it to serve your own agenda.
They don’t give a crap about justification, they are so far gone now, they often don’t even give a shit about plausible justification. They just use whatever paragraph suits their purpose.
Of course if try to hold an election when Trump under martial law has said not to. And those are labeled terrorists or enemies of the state, then those officials will be jailed. And jails to keep them are being built as we speak.
And calling the woman that was shot a terrorist is legitimate?
Again you’re conflating their dubious federal powers of immigration enforcement + “self defense” against a well defined and core process of election. People can disingenuously argue frame-by-frame on a video about “intent” or “threats” all day. You can’t let them do the same to the clearly written, fundamental legal structure of the country.
Not at all, I’m looking at the overall behavior of Trump, and hes disregard for the law. The kidnapping of Maduro was also illegal, both by international and American law. Even if USA doesn’t give a shit about international law, he was required to ask permission from congress.
What?? But he is already doing that left and right!!! He already attempted a coup! Completely against the constitution. Something he should be in jail for, and undetectable for any public office for the rest of his life. Why are you arguing so hard against obvious evidence?
He has also used his presidential powers to go after people that were against him! And interfered in investigations where he has clear personal interests.
Trump breaks the law constantly, he is a pattern criminal. Why would you think that with the power to make USA a totalitarian nation he wouldn’t do so?
And who do you imagine will stop him, if he has the control of the entire federal system?