The Cold War? Child’s play compared to what lies ahead, according to U.S. historian Robert Kagan. Trump, he says, is leading the world into the most dangerous era since 1945.
It is without resistance. The citizens offer protest while the Democratic Party looks out for their retirement checks. The protest has been ineffective other than getting press and bringing out trump’s goon squad.
The last decade has made it abundantly clear how weak America actually is.
Growing up I just assumed we would stomp this kind of shit out real fast. Instead we’re bending over and letting an almost dead felon rapist pedophile fuck our country and our futures up. We’re allowing a clearly treasonous party to abdicate all their responsibilities to a fat creep that falls asleep and shits his pants during official duties.
It’s truly pathetic.
Don’t think I’ll be able to muster up much patriotism for this shithole for the remainder of my life.
ThEyRe BaItInG yOu
Netanyahu is in charge
Funded by AIPAC
The 2001 Patriot Act is the cornerstone and the MAGA fucknuts pushed ahead with their insane Project 2025 BS!
Which in my view is not that different from any other county historically falling under dictatorship. Most of them has for one or another reason wanted the dictator in charge initially and welcomed the overlord.
Not true, that is mostly one dictator replacing another. Democracies turning authoritarian is not common since the fascists and Nazis pre WW2.
America wasn’t a democracy or the majority of Americans who oppose military aid to Israel would’ve had an opportunity to vote. It’s a plutocracy with democratic components (if you’re feeling generous, “democratic theater” if you’re not).
The Weimar Republic also fell to the Nazis with almost no resistance.
There was plenty of violence in Germany leading up to the Jan 1931.
They were concerned with stopping socialists and communists, not putting an all powerful fascist in charge. Which is a recurring theme in history, afraid of reform they get a dictator worse than reform.
They thought big business could stop hitler if he got out of control, arrogantly thinking they could control the political monster they supported, just as now.
Americans don’t care nearly enough as long as they still get their benefits from imperial plunder.
It’s this actually. Nothing Trump has done has personally impacted most Americans, so they aren’t going to riot in the streets.
Imperial plunder? We’ve never gotten any of that, we only get the bill, we’ve never gotten any real benefit from imperial adventurism.
And plenty of people are against it. The ones for it have to be by and large lied to for months if not years as to reasons, just like they are doing with Iran right now to start the forever war in the region. The third Persian Gulf War.
What do you mean you never got any of it? All the cheap shit that comes from the hyper exploited global south? The bananas that cost 50 cents? The giant TVs that cost 200 bucks? The labor aristocracy is very much a real thing.
We get the bill. We don’t get lower gas prices from Iraq. We don’t get free bananas either, the companies get to make money on selling the bananas.
None of or foreign wars have helped American taxpayers in any real way while costing fortunes. That’s just beyond dispute, hundreds of billions of dollars, or more, in afghanistan and Iraq. No benefit from Vietnam, no real benefit from the cold war coups in latin america.
Big business made money, getting markets, that they sell here at the highest price they can get for it.
In your analysis, do you bother looking at the working and living conditions of the western countries versus the global south, or are you just looking at the wars themselves and only from the perspective of taxes? How do you think the inequity of those conditions are maintained?
You’re denying the thing by only looking at part of the thing. Obviously the capitalists aren’t doing any of this for the public good. Capitalism needs a consumer class. That class resides within the imperial core.
I would add that the high standard of living being taken away for the last half century had nothing to do with imperialism, it triumphed despite imperialism, that standard of living was from Organized Labor, and from the New Deal and the Great War that allowed the government to put the bosses on their back foot, to make them pay progressively more taxes after obscene amounts, for taxes to be paid by corporations more than personal taxes. The top rate for income was 90% after they got a large amount at lower rates.
And the new deal put checks on business, it prevented the banks from systematically cheating everyone. Preventing them operating in more than 3 states, keeping them small, seperated commerical and investment banking, and made a writer of a security hold a percent of that until maturity, making sure they wrote good loans and didn’t write bad ones, fob them on investors.
Preventing the rich from being super rich and becoming too powerful is one big deciding factor in standard of living. Labor, and the New Deal, is what led to high wages, in spite of the cold war, not because of it. And that cold war hurt us, it didn’t help us, in every way you look at it.
I wish I didn’t just read all of that to get to the end and you just brush off the argument completely.
And that cold war hurt us, it didn’t help us, in every way you look at it.
Was that line a troll? After literally not looking at it at all, you say that? And I guess we’re talking about the cold war, and not imperialism now?
Here’s my question in response to all of that: Why did the US get the New Deal and not the Jakarta Method?
Not at all, looking at the totality of these things it’s even worse for working people, as it gives power to illiberal forces in society, it creates killers that can be used to assassinate civil society leaders, most of all it enriches and makes powerful the oligarchs that are subverting our governments, using corrupt influence to exloit us, moreso than already, and to crush dissent and organized labor and the like.
The more you step back, the more the accounting shows a deficit for working people on all scores.
You are again shifting the argument from the existence of a labor aristocracy. If you want to defend the concept of the imperial boomerang, go find someone who is disputing it.
I don’t really know what you’re on about here, I’m just expounding the factors for our high standard of living that has been taken away from us as we speak for 50 years, and the fact that that high standard of living was achieved in spite of the Imperial Adventures of the country not because of it. Labor, regulation, and good leadership, relatively good, are what put capital on a leash and created a prosperous middle class that in turn bought consumer goods which in turn created more jobs and wealth in a virtuous cycle, one that has since reversed in globalization.
It’s more that Americans were spared the worst of the effects of imperialism exploitation because imperialism needs a stable base of operations. If conditions were as bad in the US as they are in other parts of the world there would be revolts and the whole system would collapse.
The Imperial Boomerang is coming back on the country now, what we support overseas gets adopted by our own lawmakers and done at home. No one should celebrate it, it’s the same ones behind doing those things overseas doing it here, to gain more power to do the same things to those other countries with even less restraint, as much as malign forces would have us celebrate hurting people because their government is bad.
Reagan: gorbachev tear down this wall!
Putin: meh, you think too small
There is a brutal man with a gun, controlling and threatening a group of good citizens with consciences. He’s going to do terrible things to them, and make them do terrible things themselves.
They have him outnumbered, but he has the gun. If they rush him, they can easily defeat him. But, the first one or two or three or four people to move forward will be shot and probably die painfully. Going first is going to cost a terrible price and you don’t know for sure that anyone else will follow you, that your sacrifice will be for anything at all.
You feel a little paralyzed and at the same time ashamed you are just standing there.
What happens next?
This is what frustrates me most as a Canadian watching this from over the fence.
I’ve seen ICE videos of them killing people. There are 6 officers and 75 people with phones. ICE shoots someone and none of the 75 people do anything. They let it happen. The 75 people just stood by and watched ICE murder a citizen in broad daylight. When in reality those 75 people could have not only stopped the murder from happening, but likely killed those 6 ICE agents and prevented a future tragedy.
The fact no one wants to try and stop this is why it’s still happening. America is filled with keyboard warriors and when push comes to shove, a bunch of pussies.
America is falling not just because of people not voting (Which 1/3rd of eligible voters allowed this to happen), but because of deliberate inaction as fascism takes over right in front of everyone with no resistance at all.
But maybe we’ll have a protest on a Saturday afternoon. That’ll show em.
Only half of those citizens have consciouses at all, and many of those are still confused about how bad the guy with the gun is. They still at least believe in there being a guy with a gun, just not this exact one, they want their handsome gun guy instead of this ugly gun guy. The other half rabidly love the guy with the gun.
What happens next?
Everyone pulls out their phones and starts scrolling for what’s new and trending.
One man can’t keep a hundred of his peers in subjugation, but a million can keep 400 million so. It’s about organization and leadership. The analogy you give doesn’t really fit, and neither do my statistics as they’ve far more than a million at their disposal. Half the country still supports them to boot and they’ve millions under arms, following orders and we have, the democrats organizing what passes for resistance.
There were about 1 million jews that died in Auschwitz, where they had about 10,000 guards. Quite literally a ratio of 100 people being subjugated by 1 person.
It’s a point made in decline and fall of the roman empire, that an organized group can hold a large population down even as in a smaller group that ratio could not.
Looking at concentration camps is different, those people were already captured, you would want to look at the size of the police, and SS, and SA, and the like.
Also there were a lot more victims of nazis than just 'the jews." They killed unionists, socialists, communists, gypsies/roma, the mentally ill, homosexuals, leftists, political opponents, and so forth.
They matter as well, we repeat casualty figures of the nazis like jews were the only victims, and it’s not true, and gives people a false impression that if they aren’t a member of the out group they will be fine.
I wasn’t trying to say jews were the only victims, just trying to show a real-world example of how it took about 1 person per 100 to subjugate a group of people. Yes the concentration camps were different but I would still say those people were subjugated.
I just made the point because the media does that all the time they never mention other victims, and it’s left the population with a very inaccurate view of the nazis, their victims, and whom their victims would be if they got in power.
Not all immigrants it’s an ever expanding list, especially when they will need a lot of scapegoats to cover for their stealing and corruption. People won’t risk their neck if their neck isn’t on the chopping block and all, I think it’s a on purpose of them.
It also feeds into the victim mentality that is used by some groups to commit their own abuses and force their own others into ghettos they control, about 6 million of them in fact, coincidentally.
The Cold War? Child’s play compared to what lies ahead, according to U.S. historian Robert Kagan. Trump, he says, is leading the world into the most dangerous era since
19451933.I’ve mentioned this before to others whenever this comes up. most or a great majority of people in the US have it “good enough” to not “risk it all”.
Things over here “aren’t bad enough” for people to full-on revolt. I’d say we’re kinda close but modern, white, boring america just doesn’t want to get caught in the shit storm. They understand it might come for them at some point but that time isn’t now so why “stick their neck out”
Absolutely. I’m very aware of my “white privilege”.
I vote. I’ve protested and will again.
Yet, I’m going away for long weekends and I have a very big vacation coming in 2 months. I’m sure many people find that selfish and offensive. However, I consider it my personal survival technique.
Best of luck to everyone.
I view it more as I might as well spend my money while it still has buying power.
We have a lot of people willing to fight for a better future.
We don’t have nearly enough people willing to die for a better future.
The reason why is because it’s quite literally the last resort. Most of us aren’t there yet.
Most of us aren’t there yet.
By the time you are it’ll be too late.
First they came for the ‘illegals’, but I did not do anything as I wasn’t an illegal.
Then they came for the trans, but I did not speak up for I wasn’t trans.
Then they came for etc etc etc.Waiting for dictators to do the right thing is never ever a good idea.
first they came for the immigrants, and i’m freaking out because i’m trans and i’m worried we’ll be next, but everyone’s telling me to calm down. wonder what they’ll say to me when they come for the trans.
They’ll say, “Where’s lolola gone? …Oh, ohh, ohhhhhh. Oh well, never mind, I’m not trans. I’m just gay, they’ll never come for me.”
{Flashing lights outside. Knock on the door}
“Whoever could that be?..oh, hello officer, how can I help yo…why are you handcuffing me? Help! Help! No one could ever have seen this coming!!”
most or a great majority of people in the US have it “good enough” to not “risk it all”.
Most of the people I know are barely hanging on and desperate to keep the little they have. When you’re barely getting by, like 60% of Americans currently living paycheck to paycheck, you can’t afford to risk anything.
They’re too busy making sure their kids don’t starve, or making sure they can stretch the last bit of money until the next check. Doesn’t help that all we do is exploit these people any chance we can.
And I’d bet a lot of people in that situation don’t really care to help repair a system that never really worked for them in the first place.
It’s not the right approach, you and I know that. But desperate people don’t act rationally. They act emotionally. And our society has gotten really good at manipulating peoples emotions.
Sadly yes, when it finally does get to the point where most of America says “we’ve had enough!” I feel the water will be boiling and the frog will be almost cooked.
The water is so full of toxins we won’t even have to wait for it to boil. Endocrine disruptors and whatever else have turned us into compliant slaves of the ruling class without a fight. I’m serious about that, something dosing us is making us compliant, I’m convinced of it, it could be endocrine disruptors perhaps, which are everywhere.
If the micro plastics don’t get us global warming will for sure wipe us all out.
Tyrants always have the advantage in a “civil society”…
(Almost) Everything he does is legal so people treat it as fair game even if we don’t like it, and aside from ICE murdering people, there isn’t any direct violence to fight against so the “civil society” has to wait until it’s wayyyyyyyy too late, to the point that we’re all being sent to the gas chambers, until it decides it’s morally correct to use violence.
Until that point we’re left hoping our “representatives” will “fight” for us (hahahahahahahahahahahahaha… Ughh…)
:(
People forget that morality, legality, and constitutionality are all different. Andrew Jackson ignored court orders regarding treaties with the Cherokee, nothing bad happened, because the people supported him. Lincoln blockaded the South without congressional approval, that was a good thing, also unconstitutional. He suspended habeas corpus, which was also unconstitutional. ICE is likely not breaking the constitution in many instances. However, that doesn’t make their actions the slightest bit less abjorrent and evil. The constitution is a centuries old piece of paper. If anything, the Bill of Rights and some ot the other amendments (namely the 14th) are significantly more valuable.
Ice is detaining people without cause or warrants, it’s most definitely breaking the constitution.
I know that part is unconstitutional. Some of their numerous actions were possibly constitutional, it’s a very flawed piece of paper, we all know this.
Just reading his Wikipedia page is scary as hell for an American president. Unreal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_presidency_of_Donald_Trump
There are a couple of factors that play into the “lack of resistance.”
- Healthcare and employment are intertwined in the US. Also, healthcare is more expensive in the US than just about anywhere else in the world.
- Employment in most states is “at will,” meaning employees can be fired without cause. For most employees, there is also no employment contract. Unions in the US are very weak for the most part.
- Most people in the US live paycheck to paycheck, and don’t own their primary residence.
These are the ingredients of a captive population. They can hate something all they want, but objecting to it is a risk of losing everything they have. And that’s not hyperbole. There have already been reports of people being fired for social media posts, and ICE collecting info on “anti-ICE” social media content. Unfortunately, this is going to have to get to a point where enough people are willing to die to oppose this. When the economy starts hurting the upper-middle class, things might change, but I don’t know.
There is and has been resistance, and it’s resulted in American deaths. There just hasn’t been the craziness of, e.g., Jan 6 (irony intended)!
Also, it’s important to remember, if resistance gets to the level of Jan 6, this president likely won’t hesitate in implementing the Insurrection Act. That would effectively start either a mass slaughter of civilians and/or a civil war.
