Excelent, it would be great if valve would allow Counterstrike to die and go back to making real games.
Ok, now sue the Stock Exchange.
Not all gambling is banned, and they are specifically calling out games targeting kids
Ha! All the points to you!!
Meanwhile people are probably betting on if Valve will lose or win this battle.
Hang on a sec I’m just putting some money on “Will NYC sue the stock exhange”… /s
…it’s gotten so out of hand.
I am often in the comments of threads like this trying to explain how things people don’t fully understand are in fact complicated.
Nope.
Not here.
Sue Valve over this, I hope they lose.
Yeah I dunno if currently existing law is or isn’t sufficient to actually render a guilty verdict here…
… but I hope it is.
Lootboxes are bullshit, Valve does a lot of good, but this ain’t that.
Stole mom’s credit card to buy CS2 gun skins?
Yeah, if you wanna make the argument that a credit card is sufficient to screen if somebody is an adult or not, might be a good idea to, you know, not allow kids to gamble with mom’s credit card.
Full NY AG press release:
The actual lawsuit filing:
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/court-filings/new-york-v-valve-corporation-complaint-2026.pdf
I’m the first guy to go to bat to point out why someone’s bullshit issue with valve is bullshit.
But this ain’t one of those times. Valve is as guilty as all the others on this. Loot boxes should be illegal. And valve should be ashamed.
On one hand: I just want my Steam Frame so I can put a real, actual computer on my face and escape into it and dev on it, dammit. I bet the gambling allows them to take risks like that.
… On the other hand… illegalizing loot boxes might directly put us on the path to Half-Life 3 or even Left 4 Dead 3? And it’s morally upstanding so…
It’s actually a bummer that if they lose it’ll probably just make them cut access to loot boxes SPECIFICALLY in NYC IP address ranges and nothing else.
Well, if you read the lawsuit, NY is seeking:
-
Well of course, the court to determine Valves lootbox + key paradigm is illegal
-
Pay a fine to the state
-
Resitution to all NY residents
So, even if it did only apply to NY… you would at least be due to have all your key purchases refunded, as welp as the amount that Valve shaves off of every item transaction in the marketplace.
-
Only Valve? I can name a few more companies.
I seem to remember a company that thought this sort of thing gave users “a sense of pride and accomplishment”
Ah yes, Saudi EAco. Because they weren’t scummy enough already.
RS has a similar thing, but recently they have gotten rid of most of the MTX, and decided to nerf the game as well.
Maybe since they own Steam, they’d cascade the ruling to games sold on their platform.
Maybe this is what we need in a way. So many governments are jumping down valves throat specifically that they might actually cause valve to go bankrupt, deleting all of our multiple thousands of dollar libraries, and then (hopefully) causing riots. Which will (hopefully) cause the laws to be changed forcing these companies to SELL GAMES not fucking licenses to temporary use a game…
Idk. I don’t want Valve to fail. I think that’d overall make things worse for gamers. I just want them to stop operating a casino.
If Valve fails, we’ll have so many great alternatives, though!
- Epic Games Store, with it’s… uh… better fee structure that benefits the publishers.
- EA’s Origin, with direct access to the exact same Origin website but instead presented through an Electron app.
- Ubisoft Connect, with the latest access to Ubisoft’s Assassin’s Creed games and related reskins sold under different IP.
- Battle.net, with feature to run partially-downloaded games and stream missing assets in on demand.
- GOG, with real installers for its games that you can hoard to a hard drive sitting in your closet. (No sarcism. This one isn’t terrible)
- The Microsoft Store, with its incredible ability to revoke your license for the Notepad.exe program that comes installed with Windows.
Who needs a forum, mod portal, user reviews, or Linux support anyways?
Battle.net, with the feature to run partially-downloaded games and stream missing assets in on demand.
This one is actually a game changer if you play WoW for a bit every few years lol
Game’s like 100 gigs by now, but you can get started after just a few gigabytes downloaded. Like 5 minutes on even my mediocre 150 mbps downlink.
In contrast, it used to take me several hours to get into it on a slower connection before this feature.
Battle.net, with the feature to run partially- downloaded games and stream missing assets in on demand.
This just brought back a wonderful memory of playing original Overwatch and my hard drive failing in the middle of a match. Out of nowhere character models were being replaced with floating blue orbs and sounds were missing, but I could still finish the match with what was loaded into RAM!
I’m not sure where I stand there. Steam is a great platform, but for purely capitalistic reasons. The only reason they aren’t as bad as other platforms is because they’re privately-owned and take the long view because they don’t have to worry about the day-to-day fluctuations on stock value.
Gabe isn’t your friend. He’s a billionaire yacht-collector who makes the vast majority of his money by taking a massive cut from other company’s products because of their virtual monopoly that exists because they launched an online marketplace in 2004.
Let’s be a bit fair, your local store selling a physical copy is also taking a cut of the other companies profits. The 30% valve charges would be just the same as GameStop/other store would be marking up the game from wholesale prices. (I still would rather have physical copies, but valve charging a percentage on each sale has always been a bs argument against them)
The store isn’t also making games.
Like how Apple gets to take 30% of Spotify subscriptions and they operate a competing music service. That’s where it becomes wrong.
Of course, Valve doesn’t make games either now, so maybe it’s a moot point.
I’m just talking about the talking point of them taking a cut of sales, it’s the exact same as a store adding markup. A store is adding way more than 30% on most physical goods. Data storage and bandwidth are fucking expensive and 30% honestly isn’t that much.
Of course, Valve doesn’t make games either now, so maybe it’s a moot point.
Deadlock would like a word
Gacha trash. Let me know when they’re making Portal 3 or Half-Life 3. And really, it doesn’t even have to be those franchises, but I mean, a single-player game that you pay for once and that’s it, and it has puzzles that make you think. What they were known for before they started making money off other people’s work and stopped creating wonderful things.
I mean, I know they still work on their gacha games.
Might seem like I’m moving goalposts and maybe I did, but I’m just nostalgic for when they made unforgettable games like Portal and Half-Life 2.
30% makes sense for a physical store with high overhead, inventory, staffing, and other expenses.
Valve could take a 5% cut and still make a ton more than a retail store for the same product.
Open steam settings > Downloads, click the dropdown at the top. That whole dropdown menu? That’s what their cut pays for. Rack space, network capacity, and storage, to deliver ALL games on steam efficiently, across the planet. That ain’t cheap. And that’s only part of what it pays for.
Relative to the money being spent on games it is incredibly cheap.
You know what it costs to run a retail store? And even in 2025 GameStop had 10 times as many retail store locations as Valve had employees.
And it’s not like retail has no tech infrastructure expenses.
Grocery stores in my experience take on average 30-50% of the cut of anything they sell.
From working at one and managing orders/invoices.It varies depending on the product, the profit margin on soda for example is often over 100%, other products such as milk would be negative (loss leaders), but in general, most non-junk food groceries usually have a single digit profit margin
Agreed, Steam is the only website I can buy video games from(GOG, i dont like their usage of GenAI and the current people behind it,Epic games, subpar features and the company behind it),i appreciate Valve’s contributions to Linux,and i like their philosophy of no cutscenes and extensive playtesting.
The actual lawsuit mentions only millions of dollars in sales that Valve has made from lootbox keys and steam market transaction fees… for all the citizens of New York… for over a decade of running the lootbox system.
Valve is estimated to have yearly revenues of around $20 billion dollars a year, est net worth of about $10 billion.
This is a rough guess napkin math that may be wrong, but untill this lawsuit proceedes, we don’t have numbers about how much money Valve makes specifically from lootboxes, because they’re a private company and don’t have to disclose that.
If its only millions of dollars, for a decade, from everyone in New York…
Even if Valve had to shit can all lootboxes going forward, pay fines and restitution, I think they’d survive fairly ok.
I’m not just referring to this one lawsuit, the EU also sued them for quite a bit.
HECK YEAH
I hope Valve loses.
Isn’t there gambling everywhere now? (Roblox, sport bettering on the Internet, millions of phone apps, blind box subscriptions, Pokemon) Why does it matter with Valve? I’m not supporting crappy loot boxes or gambling, just didn’t really get the lawsuit.
So because it’s everywhere it’s good?
These arguments just maintain the status quo. Yeah its everywhere and it’s almost normalized but it’s not in anyway a good thing. There should be laws against gambling and especially when you target children.
Pokemon cards is basically lootboxes i think pokemon is more horrendous on that front than the other TGCs, because they refuse to change the pullrates to negate scalpers.
That’s the sad thing about trading card games. I think they’re neat, and like how the rules and strategy work, but the defining business model of “rarities” and making it a wallet war seem almost built in.
I guess the alternative is simply to have collectible sets with known cards in them maybe? I guess like how miniature warfare games use point-buy systems so you have to weigh which units you want instead of just fielding a ton of the most expensive / powerful ones.
If they called them prediction boxes would it be ok then? Seems to work great for kalshi and other prediction market platforms.
Like… The city of New York? Is suing the Bellevue, WA gaming company Valve?
Scratches head
…In 2026?
… If I have a company, an llc, that is based in one state… and I do business in another state…
… the laws of that other state are applicable to me.
This is the concept of a State - Federal government legal structure.
This is a fairly common kind of thing that happens, a State AG suing some legal entity that legally resides in a different state, but does business in their state.
Yes, I understand what makes it legal and the commonality of the legal dynamic. It just feels like very inopportune infighting.
Inopportune infighting?
What do you mean by that, I genuienly don’t understand.
State AGs often bring consumer rights based suits against businesses.
Sometimes those businesses are based in other states.
How is this infighting?
Do you think that like NY and WA are legally fighting or something?
That’s not how this works.
Valve largely stands as one of the last vestiges of consumer positive industries, save for stuff like this, which I think everyone agrees is not good. It’s definitely gambling, and it definitely eroded and continues to erode gaming and civilization, in general.
However, in a world of cutthroat wolves and truly evil entities and secret boards of oligarchies, Valve alone sits as a private company, not behaving primarily as a dark pattern machine.
Attacking them needs to happen, but in a political time of rising fascism around the world, and especially as it takes hold in almost all of the federal government and many powerful institutions have recently taken radical nosedives, a power vacuum where, at WORST a grey company once stood, is the last thing we need.
Attacking Valve should happen. But not right now. “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”, and valve has historically stood protecting gamers, and business and industry, against many of the worst behaviors, as basically a grey paragon of hope.
Tearing them down right now is such a fool’s errand where the best outcome is unfortunately a weakening of the company that gives SO MANY PEOPLE hope and peace at the end of the day.
You obviously aren’t a fool, and seem quite aware of the dynamics, both legally and really. But, going off the average .ml values and rising industry of communist country gaming companies, I can only assume a motive to weaken the most powerful and successful institution that stands in the way of foreign entities gaining more momentum, be it deliberate or not.
The damage and negativity of allowing the structuring of gambling in this past time is undeniable.
But cutting off one of the hands of one of the few institutions and leading companies that isn’t a brazen flagrant late stage capitalist machine, bowing and tithing the fascist federal government is fucking stupid.
Sue EA or an actual auto shitty company instead. Valve will take notice. And if they don’t change their ways, wait until there isn’t a Nazi sympathizer as president who’s being very successful replacing the heads of all information and power throughout the country.
But until then, people need to see attacking Valve for what it really is: attacking virtually the last industry leading and extremely powerful company that stands against everything Trump stands for. As grey and imperfect as they are, they, alone, stand above as a Paragon against the darkness.
Uh…
Ok.
So… I consider myself to generally quite the Valve fanboy, but I try to base that as much on reality as I can.
… Video games are less important than the concept of an impartial, fair and just legal system.
Nobody with a life spent in law knows dick about how Valve being basically the only major gaming company that isn’t publically traded and doesn’t have a bunch of investors and stock holders to answer to means that it functionally is the least evil major gaming company.
(Beyond Valve’s lawyers, I guess.)
I get where you are coming from, but you’re acting like everyone cares about and values Valve as much as you do.
You’re not wrong to see them as the best overall corporate force for good in gaming… but that you think any entity that tries to broadly do good, conflicting with another… is infighting?
No, these are completely different groups of people, who focus on completely different realms… its very strange to me, that you see the world in a way where its all so conflated.
…and Valve can’t be grey and imperfect and also paragons at the same time. Paragon literally means without flaws.
Let me offer a … slightly different way of looking at it:
…Valve’s the flawed hero gamers deserve, but not the one they need to prioritize right now. So, let the heros hunt them, because Valve can take it.
NEW YORK, Feb 25 (Reuters) - New York’s attorney general sued Valve
First sentence of the article. The state of New York is during valve.
Valve has customers in New York so they are allowed to do so, I imagine.
Idk are laws even real anymore?
Laws have never been real. It’s just magic paper that society has to collectively agree to believe in for them to work. But they do not apply to the powerful. So it’s just a tool of slavery.
Maybe I didn’t articulate very clearly…
It seems an odd time to attack Valve when there are more egregious companies doing much worse of this sort of thing AND worse things happening in the world.
An extreme analogy would be like when Nazi Germany was rising to power and you sued the Jewish public transportation and train industry for false advertising of their fares.
Does that make sense to you? It’s a bit complex, so I can understand if maybe that’s a bit tough to fully comprehend.
Does that make sense to you? It’s a bit complex, so I can understand if maybe that’s a bit tough to fully comprehend.
Are you attempting to be condescending when you couldn’t figure out whether it was New York city or New York state bringing the suit? How embarrassing for you.
Anyway, what valve is doing is supporting a nascent gambling scene involving 3rd party resales of loot box stuff, and the loot boxes themselves are basically gambling. Its not something that should be normalized. They are profiting off this and there are children involved. Normally I don’t think “save the children” arguments have much weight to them but this is a solved problem: we regulate gambling industries.
Please understand: I use steam. I think its awesome. I’m hyped to play my steam games on Linux. But steam is in the wrong here imo.
And yes, there are bigger evils in the world, but this is still a worthwhile case. I work in the gambling industry. This shit is gambling and it needs regulation.
Clearly gambling so good luck NY.
I wonder if you get the crate and key for free, it would be considered gambling?
If you get the key for free, which you can, but is by far not the most common way most keys are acquired, then probably it would not constitute gambling, as the player isn’t putting any money in.
This… is how it originally worked, I think, for a time, when TF2 first came out.
You could get keys from either randomly playing the game and finishing or spending time in a round, or via achievements, iirc.
But yeah, then the keys could also be bought for money, and the whole trading market and steam wallet were introduced, and since then, probably 99% of keys for any game with em are bought, not acquired via in game activity.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
You technically can
I see
next thing they’ll be saying is that loot boxes were in the epstein Files.
They unironically were.
Epstein is on record talking with Bobby Kotick about pushing microtransactions on kids, like, over a decade ago.
To my knowledge, no former or current Valve employee was involved in any such discussions with Epstein…
… but yeah.
Lootboxes absolutely are in the Epstein files, he was all for ‘indoctrinating kids into a digital economy.’
You may be too young to have experienced the before times, but MTX used to not exist, not be a thing.
You’d go to a store and buy an expansion pack to a game, whole bunch of new content and often new game mechanics, for maybe 1/2 to 1/3 the pricd of the original game.
Or, later, you’d just buy that online.
No digital fake currencies, no paying for a single game item, no battle passes.
Horse armor started all this. Don’t forget bethesda and Microsoft are the entire reason digital script currencies and microtransactions exist.
Fuck Behthesda.
Literally everything they’ve done in the last decade has been a downgrade or cashgrab or outright joke.
… and they still, fucking still can’t fix their garbage engine, they’re still, still relying on modders to fix all their problems, and then they just fairly regularly do some kind of re release or major overhaul that breaks all of the mods.
I remember those days. Console games would release and that was it. The sequel(or expansion) might fix a thing or two. Multiplayer meant hanging out with friends. Computer game lobbies had custom game servers. If you wanted to wear a funny hat you would play on the funny hat server.
I don’t really care for many multiplayer games so the MTX bug didn’t have much of a chance to bite me. I did play TF2 when it started until it started to have items. All the fun evaporated. The hats weren’t so funny when every server was the funny hat server.
I have a friend who has spent a lot of money on loot boxes since day one. There’s no stopping the guy. When I was still around the neighborhood we grew up in we’d hang out often enough. I remember at least one night he was glued to his phone opening counterstrike boxes/crates while the rest of the crew was hanging out. I think he got a cool knife out of the hours spent on it. Maybe he sold that knife for the loot box money. I have no idea to be honest. It was a lot of crates for a game I’ve never played in a currency I don’t understand. The MTX bug could raise great grandchildren off of a whale like him. It was weird seeing him under the spell of it all. Counterstrike was playing him that day.
He’s not “one lootbox away from living on the street” but I found it concerning the amount of money going up in smoke like that. He is just one of many people who do it. It’s gambling but the prize is a digital carnival item you might be able to sell on their marketplace. I’m glad I don’t get it.
A .world user who is simultaneously against corporate regulations and for protecting pedophiles. Note my lack of shock.
Do they not know how to read where you come from?
