• encelado748@feddit.org
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    2 days ago

    Honestly, I could list hundreds of documented instances of Russia genocide in Ukraine, with state sponsored declarations of explicit genocide intent. The evidence is so well documented and overwhelming that I can only presume a biased dishonest stance from you.

    Making discussing this with you a waste of time.

    EDIT: making a small list to shut down deniers. I will not waste more time than this on something so easy to research. According to UN genocide convention:

    1. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group (Article II, Section e): the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Russian President Vladimir Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova (Russia’s Commissioner for Children’s Rights). Ukraine has documented the forced deportation of over 19,000 children to Russia or Russian-occupied territories, where they are frequently subjected to “Russification” processes, given Russian citizenship, and placed with Russian families.
    2. Killing members of the group & Causing serious bodily or mental harm (Article II, Sections a & b): The UN Commission of Inquiry and various human rights groups have extensively documented mass executions, systematic torture, and sexual violence in previously occupied areas such as Bucha, Izyum, and Kherson.
    3. State promoted deletion of Ukrainian culture and identity: Vladimir Putin: In his July 2021 essay, “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians,” Putin laid the ideological groundwork for the invasion by explicitly denying the existence of a distinct Ukrainian nation, arguing that Ukrainians and Russians are “one people” and that a sovereign Ukraine is an artificial construct entirely created by foreign powers. Dmitry Medvedev (Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of Russia): Medvedev has repeatedly used eliminationist rhetoric on his official Telegram channel. He has referred to Ukraine as a “fake” and “cancerous” state, stated that “deep Ukrainianism… is one big fake,” and declared that a sovereign Ukraine has no right to exist and must be entirely absorbed or destroyed. Maria Lvova-Belova: In public broadcasts, she has openly discussed the systematic removal of Ukrainian children and their “integration” into Russian society. She has spoken about teaching Ukrainian children to love Russia, effectively admitting to the intent to erase their previous national identity.

    This is 100% genocide, and if you negate that you live in a different reality than me. On top of that, Russia is currently engaging in a war of conquest. Russia is a country build on genocide and conquest.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      17 hours ago

      Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

      This one is especially spurious - should they leave the children in a warzone? Evacuating them is humane, hardly genocidal.

    • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      Honestly, I could list hundreds of documented instances of Russia genocide in Ukraine

      and yet, you don’t. curious!

      • encelado748@feddit.org
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        24 hours ago

        You deny Bucha with anonymous quora post.

        I use:

        United Nation reports: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern

        Human Rights watch: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/21/ukraine-russian-forces-trail-death-bucha

        Amnesty international: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur50/5561/2022/en/

        Bucha denial is the same as holocaust denial. You are doing real damage and cause lot of suffering for innocent people by justifying war criminals. I do not know how can you disconnect so much from reality to find this acceptable

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          21 hours ago

          Bucha denial is the same as holocaust denial.

          That’s funny, a few years ago that’s what you guys were saying about Uygur genocide denial. Of course, when it turned out no such genocide was happening, even to the point that the UN abandoned that accusation, no lessons were learned and the crimes of the west were projected onto the next opponent instead.

          • encelado748@feddit.org
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            18 hours ago

            The UN has not abandoned any accusation on the Bucha massacre. Proof is extensive, sources independently verified. I have made no claim on Uygur as I am not knowledgeable enough to discuss it.

            • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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              17 hours ago

              And once upon a time the UN had not abandoned the story of a Uyghur genocide. Until they did. Your “extensive proof” comes from the same people who swore up and down that Saddam Hussein was building WMDs. When will you learn.

              Let me put it simply.

              Do you think we should trust what Russian-funded sources say about Russia’s enemies? You probably don’t, right? Why not? Because you think they’re genocidal, right?

              Yet you choose to believe what American-funded sources say about America’s enemies, when we have all watched America perpetrate a genocide and install a nazi government in Ukraine to do ethnic cleansing for eight years. This is a matter of indisputable fact.

              But you think what, that these same people are somehow above lying about their rivals? You think the US empire maintains the world’s largest systems of propaganda and consent manufacturing for fun? You think the Epstein capitalists who talk amongst themselves about “population control” are above projecting their crimes onto others? Get real.

              This is the unspoken hypocrisy here: you are deep in the grips of an outrage manufactured by the ultimate perpetrators of everything you profess to oppose, and they are pointing you towards their enemies to make it easier for them to do the stuff you hate.

              • encelado748@feddit.org
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                17 hours ago

                If an anonymous post on a blog has the same weight as independent organizations across multiple nations, multiple journalists, military analysts from multiple countries and photographic and videographic proofs, then nothing can be proven and you believe in what you want to be true. You are basing your ideas on faith and partisanship.

                • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                  16 hours ago

                  “Independent” organizations that all take US think tank money

                  “Multiple militaries” all of which just so happen to be aligned with Ukraine in a war. I guess independence doesn’t matter in this case for some reason

                  You are basing your ideas on faith and partisanship.

                  I am basing my ideas on a sense of pattern recognition that exceeds the span of the last two weeks. You are choosing to trust the side that has claimed, just in my lifetime:

                  -Iraq is building nukes (so we need to invade and kill a million people)

                  -Afghanistan uh, something something terrorism (so we need to invade and kill a shitload of people)

                  -Libya is giving it’s soldiers viagra to rape people (for no reason, just because they’re savages, so we need to topple the government and turn it into a failed state)

                  -Syria is killing it’s own people with sarin gas (for no reason, just because they’re savages, so we need to topple the government and turn it into a failed state)

                  -North Korea is an evil hell state where there’s literally no electricity and people have to push the trains by hand (so we have to-ah shit, nevermind, they got nukes, let’s just stop talking about them. Also they just hate us for no reason because they’re crazy, do not look into what we did in the 1950s. In fact, do not look into our history with any of the groups and countries that dislike us. They’re just jealous of our freedom.)

                  -China is totally, for real, genociding Muslims. No reason given, they’re simply sinister Asians and that’s just the kind of thing they do. No you cannot see evidence, here’s the testimony of one insane German man.

                  -Russia has suddenly attacked Ukraine for absolutely no reason, because Vladmir Putin, the one person who controls all of Russia by himself, has been driven mad by the One Ring or something. Also, Ukraine is not run by nazis. Please ignore all the swastikas.

                  -Russia is totally, for real, genociding Ukrainians. Evidence? Uhh here’s this massacre in the middle of a war zone in a town that had just been occupied by Azov. It was definitely Russians, and not the seig heiling fascists who just spent 8 years massacring people with our support. It was Russians. Why? Because they’re sinister Asians, and that’s just the kind of thing they do.

                  -Hamas totally, for real, beheaded 40 babies and raped a zillion women on October 7. They also baked a baby in an oven. No you cannot see evidence, and in fact you are an antisemite for asking. Now we must commit genocide.

                  -Iran totally, for real, mowed down 4,000 12,000 20,000 40,000 nine morbillion protestors in the street. No we do not have evidence, despite the fact that spy satellites are capable of reading a newspaper from orbit and that level of carnage would be visible from space. You must simply trust me bro. We have to bomb 150 schoolkids.

                  This is just the major stuff I can recall off the dome right now. And isn’t it a coincidence that the side you’re choosing to trust is the side who’s cultural and political narratives you’ve been marinated in since birth? Whose movies you’ve watched, whose news you’ve consumed, whose views on other people and countries you’ve internalized since you were old enough to understand speech? But I’m sure a lifetime of existing in a pro-imperial western information bubble has had no effect on the worldview of a coldly rational free thinker like you. It certainly hasn’t predisposed you to lend more trust to your own perceived ingroup while conveniently reserving suspicion for pre-designated enemies, or anything primitive like that.

                  So let’s say you have to make a bet, you’re putting money down. A lot of money, enough to buy a house. You’re staking your entire financial future on the outcome of this bet. Forget all familiarity and affinity, forget who you want to be right; this is business. Only the facts matter here.

                  Which side do you think is more likely to be lying about Bucha?

                  Which side has a centuried habit of lying about it’s rivals and projecting it’s crimes onto them?

                  Which side operates the largest propaganda machine in history?

                  Which of us do you think is more likely to be operating off of faith and partisanship?

                  Remember, you stand to lose a lot of money here, so be honest with yourself.

                  • encelado748@feddit.org
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                    12 hours ago

                    Which of us do you think is *more likely* to be operating off of faith and partisanship?

                    You are more likely, as you believe I believe in thing I made not claim on. You just add a label on me based on perceived “affiliation”. This is the essence of partisanship. US can support genocide while Russia does the same. The fact you fell the need to pick a side is direct demonstration of partisanship.

      • encelado748@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        You reply to the international criminal court and the Ukrainian state with random blog as if your information are somewhat more reliable. Nothing is debunked we have thousands of names and first hand testimony. This is ridiculous; explain to me what is the process you are using to establish truth. It is definitely flawed

    • orc girly@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      I’m not the person you said this to, I would appreciate at least one example so I can check it out and learn

    • encelado748@feddit.org
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      2 days ago

      You reply to the international criminal court and the Ukrainian state with random blog as if your information are somewhat more reliable. Nothing is debunked we have thousands of names and first hand testimony. This is ridiculous; explain to me what is the process you are using to establish truth. It is definitely flawed

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          Probably to my comment with links, i don’t feel the need to respond to such a thought terminating cliche although it’s very funny that they accidentally answered to their own drivel with that.

          • encelado748@feddit.org
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            1 day ago

            Correct, it was your comment with link. What is making it a thought terminating cliche? Your links are not a reliable source of information. You inform yourself using false data and claim it as reality. How can you make a proper determination on what is real using such sources?