The whole world has gone fucking crazy!
- I am a veteran.
- I have a Bachelor’s degree in Business Administration with a 3.75 out of 4.00 GPA.
And everyone wants to use asinine assessment tests to gatekeep me out of a job. I already jumped through four fucking years of hoops, spent tens of thousands of dollars, gave up tens of thousands of dollars via opportunity costs (I could have been working a job during that time).
And if I don’t complete their test I don’t get the job and the person with a GED or High School diploma who does complete it gets the job. They only want compliance and the abilty to utterly control you.
They make you take these frivolous tests for three reasons:
- To make sure you weren’t lying about the degree and aren’t an idiot.
- To test your loyalty and willingness to jump through hoops without complaining (for no extra pay)
- Because they want to pick the absolute best quality applicant and the only semi-emperical way to do that is with tests.
- Modern HR operates on a positive-feedback loop which needs to create these artificial hurdles to the hiring process to justify their existence in the company
Edit: I have no idea why it displays the number 1 when it shows 4 on the edit screen, but I’ve spent too much time trying to fix it and don’t really care.
It shows number 4 for me
For me it shows up like this: *
If it’s like Reddit, it tries to turn any numbered list (or what it perceives as one) into an ordered list. I’ve never tried, but I bet if you precede the number with a backslash it will keep the number of your choosing.
I’ve seen threads where people would answer things like “how old are you” with just “30.” or similar, accidentally claiming to be a 1-year-old with excellent technical skills.
It’s markdown, if it detects “[number][period][space]” at the start of a line it converts it to an HTML ordered list, which always starts at one. You should be able to escape it with a \ before the period to bypass the markdown
4. I wrote "4\. "
If you went to college then you know from experience that it’s possible to be a genuine dumbass and still walk out with a degree.
People cheat, they coast, they take the path of least resistance, they get mercy marks from their profs, they take bird courses, they cram for exams and then immediately forget the information…
A college degree doesn’t prove if you will be good at a job. It only proves how good you were at college.
Because they said so. That is it, the whole reason. If you were expecting a good reason you’ll be disappointed.
It’s because degrees aren’t unfortunately full proof certifications of your skill set. They should be, and they should require recertification to prove your skill set. This is handled differently in different countries and with different industries but requiring more deep and trusted educational programs would resolve the problem. It makes sense that a company wants to ensure they’re getting what the candidate says they are.
Hiring processes are a joke currently and involve a clearly bullshit song and dance that everyone knows is a lie. I ver much don’t like tests in this capacity but it’s clear it’s a symptom of issues in higher academia.
Some people are really good at memorizing and doing tests, but have zero ability to put that information to work. These tests weed those people out.
I have done my fair share of hiring for development roles over the years. I used a simple test for years but have since decided tests are mean and largely pointless.
But the reason we started using tests for recent grads is because our local university did not prepare CS students for careers in programming. Most of the fresh grads we hired were from the community college, as they actually understand development fundamentals. But in either case we needed to actually know if people understood their degree material.
- A degree is just proof that you are organized and capable enough to step through arbitrary hoops for a period.
- Being a veteran can also show the same thing.
- A lot of companies use psychological profiling tests and questions that are largely garbage science, but you need to learn the right answers to show you’re potentially a culture fit.
- Any job that doesn’t have a respected certification body is going to have some form of competency test. Too many people lie or didn’t actually learn the concepts in college.
- If you’re actually competing with someone who just has a GED for the same job, you aren’t the target demographic for that position.
A degree can be earned slowly with a lot of outside assistance. A lot of jobs can’t be handled like that.
We use an assessment that provides feedback on 12 metrics and the most important to me are logical problem solving, vocabulary and aggressiveness. I can have several applicants from the same school score wildly differently in those metrics, even if they all have the same degree.
What else should employers do if they have 100 applicants for a role? Interview every single person? We need to weed people out somehow. If you don’t provide a cover letter, you’re eliminated. If you don’t take the assessment, you’re eliminated. You’re saving us time.
I’ve noticed a lot of people lately thinking that college is the hard part and if they get the right degree they will coast into a cushy, easy job. Truth is, being an employee is work and at best executives and owners get to coast on cushy jobs, so unless you manage to get a degree that instantly qualifies you for a CEO role, you’re going to have to work your ass off to climb a ladder or build a business for yourself.
Seriously though, I’m an office administrator and your degree in administration is going to make you the meat in a shit sandwich. Everything that you hate about recruiting…don’t be surprised if you end up being responsible for it. You’ll have to conduct those 100 interviews, then hire and manage staff that have your same burnt out attitude. Your subordinates will bring you endless problems. But that’s only half of it. You’ll be also report up to executives who will push you to be callous and heartless, while somehow magically also increasing production and morale. Did your degree give you all the tools and skills you need to do that? Bro good luck.
What kind of test are you being asked to take?
Many places, including where I am, will ask any candidate to complete a technical test, regardless of skill level / education / experience. Ive worked with someone who had a masters, a decade of experience, and he could barely write code. If he had been tested, he would have been rejected for not being competent for the role. Having a technical test has helped reject candidates before even bothering to interview because they can’t do the role effectively.
It’s nothing to do with “compliance and control”. Its to make sure the candidate is competent.
And less of a technical test or anything written, but we spend time talking generally with a candidate to make sure theyre a “culture fit”. Long story short - do we think they can play nice with others? Do they have an abrasive personality, or inability to talk to people or whatever.
Tests in industry is common, and if you’re failing them and not getting a job it might be worth spending time looking over your answers and results, where you went wrong, and brushing up on those areas? Especially if you’re being beaten out by someone with a GED.
edit. Would be nice to understand why this is being downvoted
Most of the ones that I’ve experienced have been personality tests and iq tests.
So the ones I’ve seen were a combination of social skills/ emotional intelligence tests and the same type of questions you’d find in an IQ test.
So having a degree shows you have the dedication to see your education through. Having a high GPA can indicate you delivered a consistent and honest effort. But the extra test (especially if it’s timed) can show how good you are at quick thinking. One test I took for a job, you would have about 20 seconds to answer each question if you wanted to get through them all.
It can also gauge if you’re lazy (you guess your way through most questions just to get through them) or dedicated (take your time to answer each question correctly even if that means you won’t get through all 60 or so questions before the 20 minutes are up).
The social skills/emotional intelligence tests (if that’s the right name for them) I’ve seen were basically matching faces to emotions and trying to gauge reactions to events.
So for the “IQ” tests, they want people who are not only educated but swift thinkers (more PC way to say it).
For the social/emotion tests, I’ve seen where otherwise smart and educated candidates can be grating to other employees and even drive other talent away.
I ran into that situation. I’ve even personally blacklisted jobs that might be in the same “team” with a specific person at a very big contractor because even if they’re brilliant, they’re frustrating to work with and have no gauge on how to treat fellow professionals.
I use “team” in quotes because despite there being enough work for 3-4 full time developers, I’ve only ever seen that one person on that team. After having worked with them, I have a really good idea why.
What goes on in college is very different from what goes on in employment.
In college it is often enough to just have functional code with a few comments. Not in the enterprise. You need to be able to follow coding standards, make sure your code can be followed by your peers and understand why things are done a certain way. Last time I was in uni, they didn’t teach any of that stuff.
Just because you can buy a degree, doesn’t mean you have a damn clue how to perform the work. Degree’s and certs are a good indicator of a qualified candidate, but by no means can they be trusted. Even being a vet doesn’t mean a lot by itself. Although I do have to say, all of the vets I’ve known with degrees, have been highly effective employees.
Well, I am very close to killing myself because I am living in my car, running out of money, and cannot get a job. So, it’s nice to know that the four years I spent getting a degree means absolutely nothing.
People refuse to do any sort of critical thinking about what is on my resume.
On my resume is states that I was a paratrooper in the U.S. Army. Do you now how many people have ever asked me about that in an interview? NONE! It’s never mentioned.
My first year of college overlaps with my last year of being in the Army. The dates are right there on the resume. Do you know how many people have noticed that? NONE!
With a slight amount of critical thinking people would look at that and think, “hmmm, I bet that was a difficult experience and I imagine this person has some sort of ambition and work ethic”.
I had to wake up at 4:30AM everyday to do 5 mile runs or morning PT, work all day until 5PM, and then go to night school from 5:30PM to 9PM. I was the only person in my Battalion who went to college. While all the other soldiers drank and partied in the barracks nights and weekends I went to college. It’s never even noticed in an interview.
So, thanks for your empathy. Like I originally stated the world has gone fucking crazy.
Also, I didn’t buy a degree - I earned it. And your logic is that “Degrees and certs cannot be trusted” but some 15 minute bullshit personality test or assessment is a trustworthy indicator.
If you see that someone is a veteran with an honorable discharge and has earned a four year degree then you should be able to do a tiny amount of critical thinking and realize that this person has the ability to jump through some hoops and has done so for years.
Don’t kill yourself. Your life is worth living, even if this is a rough patch. https://www.va.gov/health-care/health-needs-conditions/mental-health/suicide-prevention/ ( it’s the va, I know, I know… just talk to somebody)
Just because you have excellent ethics and qualifications doesn’t mean everyone else is so truthful and honest. An assessment is just a small filter to ensure everyone is on the same page. It’s like requalifying as a sharp shooter periodically.
Your four year degree has value, it demonstatres you can focus and complete a multi-year project successfully. That’s valuable in industry.
Buddy, it’s a rough time but you can make it. Please don’t hurt yourself! If you need someone to talk to feel free to DM me, I’ve been there.
Are you applying for jobs where you will be in planes?
What does being a veteran have to do with most jobs? If it doesn’t matter for the job, why would they need to ask questions?
Sounds like you just want/need a handout since you are a veteran, life doesn’t work that way, plenty of other people paid their way to get their degrees instead of being paid by the government to get one as well. So what makes you deserve the job more?
It’s more complicated than that. Don’t be a dick to someone on the edge.
Pointing out their follies in their logic is being a dick? How are they supposed to get perspective if everyone just ignores the elephant in the room? Gotta deal with the root of the issue before even addressing what goes forward. Even without the test they likely wouldn’t be hired if this is their attitude. Being a veteran means nothing to 99% of jobs, and if it’s not relevant they aren’t gonna ask follow up questions. Literally that simple.
Buddy wants a handout since they are a veteran and are saying they are better than other people just for that single reason.
How the hell are they supposed to know your degree is worth any more than the paper its printed on? It could be from some shitty school someone just started last year. Honestly, I find it a little hard to believe a veteran doesn’t understand what tests are for, since the military uses them frequently.
Want to be a SEAL? Pass the test. It’s not complicated.
