You’re being needlessly confrontational. I agreed with your sentiment the very first time you replied to me, and clarified my concern is about accuracy of the reporting, so don’t blame me for your own failure to stay on topic.

Indeed, but that isn’t my primary concern, since we have as much responsibility to call out their bullshit. Problem is that the media gets bored after one pass and never tried to correct the record.

A responsible CNN for example would call Trump out at every opportunity during live presentations and not broadcast anything pre-recorded that Trump says that doesn’t have a basis in fact or hold any value to the public otherwise (like trump rambling nonsense reveals his worsening senility, which is handy to know).

FOX News isn’t even worthy of criticism it’s so utterly captured by the conservative propaganda machine.

I don’t disagree with the sentiment at all, I just think when you report news like this, you do it responsibly. One of the reasons we’re in the situation that we’re in with massive distrust of institutions on the one hand, but widespread believe in conspiracy theories on the other is because fact checking has fled a lot of buildings, and depending on your biases people either doubt everything or believe everything dogmatically. There are other reasons of course, and root causes. But it sucks and is tearing us apart.

The Guardian article is worded much more equivocally. “Another detainee” claims she had to kiss the flag. She has given statements herself, but hasn’t corroborated the other claims including of her own having been forced to do so. Heresay in general and limited sources.

All I’m asking is that articles make this obvious and don’t sensationalize, like the article posted by OP. Whatever the case, the abuses by Israel we have solid evidence for are bad enough.

So let’s spread potential misinformation instead! Banzai!

(There’s enough evidence of Netanyhau and Israel’s atrocities not to have to potentially make shit up.)

I don’t understand your objection then, sorry.

If she didn’t give testimony, who did? Why do you insist the article is credible?

Sure, but she provided enough testimony for this niche news website to publish this story? Occam’s Razor holds for now.

She’s Greta. She would show her bruises to make the case against Israel. She’d never be silent if it was as bad as the article claims.

There’s only one reason - Trump’s vengeance.

Feel the freedom!

There is only one reason you would vote to block transparency.

Most Russians are good people too. We’ve got to stop thinking in these kinds of terms or we’ll never get along with each other long term.

We just need to stop all the violence and to mean it.

The problem is war is good for business and good for dictators. But even democratic nations talk a lot of shit. It’s all dishonest.

That was Musk on Biden of course. Nothing could have been more obviously bullshit. But half of your voters still got taken in by it all.

Hello from New Zealand. Don’t get any ideas about moving in with Neil Gaiman on Waiheke.

I don’t think it’s impossible (sorry, I know that was a typo) and I’m sure a significant minority are aware, and they are the Israelis actually voting on the right side of history.

But, it’s easier than you think for a huge number of people to be woefully wrong about the people they are voting. The best example of this in the world right now is Donald Trump and his Republican party.

Trump’s so obviously tyrannical it’s hard to imagine anyone not knowing, and yet around half of those who voted, voted for him. Objectivity there cannot be that many psychopaths in the population, so what explains their belief in him?

Occam’s razor suggests it has to be ignorance.

I’ve no doubt the technology, the Internet and social media algorithms in particular, have played their role. Fox news too, and now the Podcastisphere. Media echo chambers are a relatively new phenomenon and it’s taken a little while for bad faith actors (mostly on the right, and in oligharical circles) to twist the narrative in their favour, but here we are.

There’s every possibility it’s the same for most Israelis in the default case.

Naturally, in any nation with crippled media, propagandistic control is going to be even worse (like Hamas’s Gaza, Iran, previously occupied Syria, etc.). So it just doesn’t make sense to blame voters is all I’m saying, because they think they’re making the right voting choice in the end.

I agree, but political propaganda is what it is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if most Israeli voters are deeply misinformed about what is really happening, and most people don’t care to question what they know, since most people are just trying to get through the day and live their best lives.

Blame has to go to those in power. Blaming people for voting wrong doesn’t achieve anything.

“Troubled” is a weird way of wording the question. It’s not the same as “support” per se, but it’s bad enough I concede your point. I’m probably getting a biased perspective from more progressive Israelis.

That’s actually not true, at least not anymore.

Anyway, if we’re not blaming Palestinians for electing Hamas, we shouldn’t be blaming Jews for electing Netanyahu.

Political propaganda is real problem for everyone, and those who know better need to be morally consistent role models for the rest, or we’re doomed to repeat history over and over.

New Zealand.

We’re currently enjoying a right wing government with a few Trump inspired figures, skyrocketing cost of living, rising crime, and very disconcerting xenophobic and quasi racist musings coming out of certain public figures. But blissfully and blessedly we’re a long way away from the chaos your brothers and sisters are going through now and the hell that may be soon to come.

The fear is the global world order falling apart may not be long in following.

Well said yeah. There are definitely some nuances in the way to defend yourself in a country where everyone is armed to the teeth, and a whole lot of cynicism given the circumstances. My words are aspirational at best, I get that. I’m reality, I’m saying what I’m saying because I share your concerns for your people.