people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it’s quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?
(Sing along with me)
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is good
Every sperm is wanted
In your neighborhood
That last line made me change to Ray Parker Jr style funk.
“Bustin’ makes me feel good!”
Remind me to never walk barefoot in your neighborhood.
If you bring a black light at night, it looks like the surface of the moon in direct sunlight
This mofo walks barefoot on the streets.
Not everyone grows up in places where that is looked down upon.
ewwwwwww tho
I don’t even walk barefoot in my house. I used to, but then I got a bunch of cats.
Outside though?! Absolutely not! I have different PANTS I wear when I go outside.
You shouldn’t do that anyway.
So, like, for the bulk of history, the people demonizing it are religious assholes.
They demonized sex out of wedlock, demonized wanking off; and any other kind of sexual release, while simultaneously deciding who you can marry (and therefore have kids with,).
It’s one of their core methods of social control, ensuring wealth is only passed on to children of wealthy and “faithful” families.
They also practiced polygamy, so that rich and influential men would have multiple wives and poor men would have none. Imagine the rage when you were a Shepherd tending someone else’s flocks, knowing that you will never have a wife or family.
It makes sense to have occasional wars with neighboring tribes so that excess males can be removed from the system.
I posted a comment impulsively, then saw that you already gave the same answer better.
Probably to sell more Corn Flakes.
Religion is mostly to blame, but I think some of those religious teachings have been integrated into institutions and secular society as well. Notions that self gratification is a treat and not a need, the perception of masturbation that it’s some teenage boy temporary phase and not for women or older married men. The idea that it can’t be a social activity at all, even though it’s free and safer than drugs.
Often times it’s about control over people. Whether it’s religion or capatilism sense it’s something you can do yourself for free that gives you pleasure. Capatilism can’t force you to pay for enjoying yourself and religion doesn’t want you to do things that they don’t control
Yeah I don’t think there it some capitalist conspiracy trying to stop people from masturbating. Kellogg is long dead
For fuck sakes. Not everything has to do with capitalism. Puritanical belief exists long before capitalism, communism or whatever economic system you want to paint as the boogyman. And it will exist long after.
Puritanism bullshit.
nooo the muffins 😭😭😭
how could you encrypt them 🥲
So only I can eat them. Mwahahaha!
noooo 😭
Christianity and Feminism.
Here’s an example of a prominant influential feminist calling all men rapists.
“Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman.”
- Andrea Dworkin
I seriously doubt it causes either of those. Source?
Read the rest of this thread.
No thanks. The question was about negative effects, and you gave your response. I’d like you to explain how masturbation turns you into a Christian and/or feminist.
Okay whatever, I already explained my position. I’m not going to repeat myself to every bad faith actor that wants to their own personalized explanation.
You interpreted a movie about respecting women and not objectifying people as anti-pleasure for men, and you call me bad faith. You’re an incel who can’t understand a children’s movie.
Nice strawman, I didn’t say it turns you into a feminist. I said Christianity and feminism demonize male sexuality and that ideology is deeply influential.
You literally did say that.
Q: What are the negative effects if any of Masturbation
A: Christianity and Feminism.
Christianity I can understand, but would you mind explaining why you think feminism demonizes masturbation?
I believe feminism has an issue with how women are portrayed in pornography and how that can influence men’s views and expectations of women.
Feminism demonizes male sexuality.
See, that’s really interesting to me! The mainstream feminist spaces I’ve interacted with have been very sex-positive, so I’m curious how you’ve experienced this demonization.
deleted by creator
Sex positive for women collectively, not for men as a whole.
Okay provide some links to these mainstream feminist circles that celebrate male sexuality and or are sex positive about men having sex. I’m genuinely interested.
Here’s exactly what you want: a feminist forum that’s specifically for discussing men’s issues (including sexuality) in a constructive and healthy manner.
Lol, they do not celebrate or encourage expressions of make sexuality instead they cite is all as objectifying just like garden variety feminists.
Do you think objectification is good and healthy?
For anyone on Lemmy interested in these issues there’s also a !mensliberation@lemmy.ca.
That’s not an explanation you just restated the claim they asked you to elaborate on. What have you encountered that led you to this conclusion?
Yes it is, masturbation is a part of male sexuality. If you demonize male sexuality any endorsement of male sexual expression is an explicit endorsement of the harmful male sexuality.
You’ve been clear about what you think dude, we want to know why you think it.
Feminists posit that men are inherently predatory. See “toxic masculinity” debates. Influential feminists like Dworkin have even stated that any sexual intercourse with men is sexual assault.
Mainstream media, which is deeply influenced by feminism, depicts male sexuality as dangerous “any man can be a rapist” while lying by omission about female predators.
Being male is an inalienable trait and “toxic masculinity” inherently is borne from males. Things like sexual assault are “women’s issues” even though studies show men are assault at near parity to women.
The list goes on, really shouldn’t have spent so much time answering because it’s so glaringly obvious so you’re arguing in bad faith.
You’re making a lot of claims about things I don’t think you really have a grasp on. “Toxic masculinity” is not an implication that all men are inherently toxic. It’s a criticism of societal expectations for men that harm them and their relationships.
You’re saying that feminism has seriously hindered acceptance of male masturbation but all you’ve provided here is vague unsubstantiated implications of media bias and a single author’s name. I’m not going to read the entire collected works of whoever Dworkin is to figure out why you think they’re both representative of the entire feminist movement and also hate men wanking it. Give me something tangible here. A quote, a law they supported, a speech, a video, literally anything at all that isn’t just some insinuation that’s only attributable to yourself
I would consider myself a male feminist and I masturbate daily so if the movement thinks that’s wrong I’d like to know so I can stop describing myself as feminist.
Someone needs to go outside and interact with actual feminists.
Not really.
Feminism embraces openness in society, including walking your own path.
If that includes deviating from cis male sexuality, then yes, feminism does indeed allow that to happen, if it happens naturally. In other words: feminism does not force you to take part in the toxic masculinity circlejerk.
In that way, yes, feminism probably reduces the amount of “male sexuality” which is basically toxic masculinity in the world. But it does not force that change, instead, it lets it happen.
My ass. Yes, maybe some inviduals do, but feminism itself does not. Feminists only ‘demonize’ male sexuality when it starts turning into treating us as walking fleshlights.
Most of the different waves of feminisms are actually quite vocal about masturbation being a positive thing regardless of gender.
The current 3rd/4th wave feminism finds male sexual pleasure very abhorrent. If you can find anything in the mainstream discourse coming from a feminist that says otherwise please share.
Feminists can’t even agree to be against circumcision which is clearly genital mutilation.
Got caught beating it at work, eh?
deleted by creator
I don’t find downplaying the gentital mutation of innocent babies funny. I’m not sure why feminists do.
Downplaying the nonsense that you tried to make more palatable by putting it next to actual issues and hoping you could use it to misdirect when you got called out, while also pointing out your completely untrue claims betray that you got justly called out for some IRL bad behavior and want to blame feminists for creating a social norm where that behavior is no longer tolerated.
Thats just not true my dude, there is nothing about feminist thought that says that male pleasure is abhorrent. To think so shows a lack of understanding of feminism…
Feminism suffers from being very broad. There are a lot of conflict viewpoints living under the umbrella of feminism and people saying that their interpretation is the correct one. And there ate a bunch of waves of feminism too, each one a bit different.
So there are absolutely feminists who are anti male. They may be a loud fringe minority, but they’re there.
But I’m talking about mainstream feminism in the public discourse right now. Think the “Barbie” movie. Male sexuality is very clearly depicted a inherently dangerous which is core mainstream feminist belief.
I haven’t seen the movie. How does it depict make sexuality as inherently dangerous?
Barbie is immediately sexually harassed several times upon first interacting with human men.
Also see “Wonder Woman '84” for more examples which was directed by a feminists with explicitly feminists ideology.
Not to mention Ken’s attraction to Barbie nearly destroys Barbie land and is revealed to based on selfish social climbing and his broken psychology.
Did you actually watch the movie or just regurgitating a viewpoint someone else claimed the movie was about.
Feminism suffers from being very broad.
Bah dum tiss 🥁
I won’t disagree that there are definitely anti-men feminists, but there have also been anti-bi feminists, and currently there are anti-trans feminists. But none of them are worth discussing when talking about feminism as a whole because they really don’t apply. Those are ideologies that should be tackled independently, and should not be considered representative of the movement in general.
Okay, post some mainstream feminist discourse that says otherwise. Highly influential feminists like Dworkin go as far as saying that any sexual intercourse with men is sexual assault.
First, Dworkin has never said that and did not think that.
Second, she died almost twenty years ago my dude. Intercourse was published in '87 during the second wave of feminism. Why are you misquoting her as an example of current mainstream discourse? And even if we’re going to be talking about feminist views of the 80’s, you’re conveniently ignoring sex-positive feminism. The sex wars were like, the defining feminist debate of that era.
She did in fact say that and your link doesn’t refute that. And sex positive feminism is not sex positive for men. As I’ve said many times before I’m talking about mainstream feminist discourse. Feminist always use this tactic of digging up some progressive strain of feminism knowing full well it’s not influential.
Dworkin may have died awhile ago but her work is still regularly cites and studies by mainstream feminism and her influence can be seen in movies like the Barbie movie.
She did in fact say that and your link doesn’t refute that.
Come now. She very clearly denies saying it in the interview I linked to:
Several reviewers accused you of saying that all intercourse was rape. I haven’t found a hint of that anywhere in the book. Is that what you are saying?
Andrea Dworkin: No, I wasn’t saying that and I didn’t say that, then or ever.
If you want to claim she’s lying about her own statements, find me a direct quote of her saying it.
Andrea Dworkin: No, I wasn’t saying that and I didn’t say that, then or ever. There is a long section in Right-Wing Women on intercourse in marriage. My point was that as long as the law allows statutory exemption for a husband from rape charges, no married woman has legal protection from rape. I also argued, based on a reading of our laws, that marriage mandated intercourse—it was compulsory, part of the marriage contract. Under the circumstances, I said, it was impossible to view sexual intercourse in marriage as the free act of a free woman. I said that when we look at sexual liberation and the law, we need to look not only at which sexual acts are forbidden, but which are compelled.
The whole issue of intercourse as this culture’s penultimate expression of male dominance became more and more interesting to me. In Intercourse I decided to approach the subject as a social practice, material reality. This may be my history, but I think the social explanation of the “all sex is rape” slander is different and probably simple. Most men and a good number of women experience sexual pleasure in inequality. Since the paradigm for sex has been one of conquest, possession, and violation, I think many men believe they need an unfair advantage, which at its extreme would be called rape. I don’t think they need it. I think both intercourse and sexual pleasure can and will survive equality.
It’s important to say, too, that the pornographers, especially Playboy, have published the “all sex is rape” slander repeatedly over the years, and it’s been taken up by others like Time who, when challenged, cannot cite a source in my work.
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/MoorcockInterview.html
This is exactly my point. This is a harsh misunderstanding at what she was getting at…
She is saying that the reality of sex for the vast majority of history has been about men dominating women, not interested in satisfying the women involved, but someone already covered that point.
“She is often said to argue that “all heterosexual sex is rape”, based on the line from the book that says, “Violation is a synonym for intercourse.” However, Dworkin has denied this interpretation, stating, “What I think is that sex must not put women in a subordinate position. It must be reciprocal and not an act of aggression from a man looking only to satisfy himself. That’s my point.”[1]”
Second paragraph on wikipedia…
But she posits that patriarchy is all encompassing and subordinates all women. Even the feminist that wrote the forward said that’s what she meant.
Numerous feminists have said they interpreted that way. It’s hard to take her denial seriously given the context of her book and the rest of her writings.
“She didn’t actually say what she said in the book. Or what she said in multiple interviews. She really said whatever dumb strawman I want to make up.”
Feminists infamously had a moral panic about pornography in the 1970’s as adult theaters and the nascent home video porno market started to take off.
They predicted porn would condition men to expect sex on demand and sexual assault rates would skyrocket when in fact the opposite happened.
You see this same moral panic from feminists regarding AI girlfriends and you there’s a rising fundamentalist strain of feminism that still says porn is dangerous.
They predicted pron would condition men to expect sex on demand and sexual assault rates would skyrocket when in fact the opposite happened.
Reminds me of “computer games turns teenagers into killer machines” saying.
I think you’re right about the porn thing, but that isn’t masturbation
How many anti-masturbation feminists do you know personally?
A lot of religion has been to push a heterosexual couple together for the means of procreation. Masturbation has been seen as a way for people to lessen their urge to procreate in the appropriate canonical manner.
One major reason is that feminism, which deeply influences culture, posits that all men are rapists in the waiting. For an example here a quote from a prominent and influential feminist.
“Under patriarchy, every woman’s son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman.”
- Andrea Dworkin
This chills any frank discussion of male sexuality because that would be implicit endorsement of sexual assault.
You raise an excellent point that the quote from Andrea Dworkin portrays a rather extreme and controversial view that is not representative of feminism as a whole. In fact, many prominent feminists have strongly disagreed with Dworkin’s perspective.
For example, Laura Tanenbaum, a respected feminist writer, has bluntly called Dworkin’s views “shit.” (1) Wendy McElroy, in her book XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography, also presents a feminist case against Dworkin’s anti-porn stance (2). As the esteemed feminist scholar Dr. Dale Spender has eloquently put it, “Feminism['s battles] have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions, for safety in the streets, for child care, for social welfare, for rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.” (3)
This demonstrates that feminism is a broad movement focused on expanding women’s rights and opportunities - not demonizing male sexuality. In fact, as Amartya Sen compellingly argues in Development as Freedom, the expansion of women’s capabilities is essential for the betterment of all people. When women have more voice, choice and agency, it leads to progress in areas like health, education, and poverty reduction that benefit entire communities.
So while Dworkin’s quote may get attention for its shock value, I would encourage looking to the many other feminist thinkers who take a more nuanced, constructive and less male-antagonistic approach (5). Feminism is not about vilifying men and male sexuality, but rather about advancing gender equality in a way that uplifts everyone. There is room for an open, healthy dialogue about sexuality within a framework of mutual understanding and respect between women and men.
(1) Laura Tanenbaum, “The Appeal and Limits of Andrea Dworkin,” Jacobin, August 5, 2019, https://jacobin.com/2019/08/andrea-dworkin-last-days-at-hot-slit-review.
(2) McElroy, Wendy. XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1995.
(3) Cleal, Olivia. “Australian ‘Feminist’s Feminist’ Dr Dale Spender AM Dies Age 80.” Women’s Agenda, November 27, 2023. https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/australian-feminists-feminist-dr-dale-spender-am-dies-age-80/.
(4) Sen, Amartya. Development as Freedom. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1999.
(5)
In fact, many leading feminist thinkers today emphasize an inclusive, nuanced and compassionate approach aimed at liberating people of all genders from limiting stereotypes and unjust social structures. Prominent feminist authors like bell hooks have advocated for men’s inclusion in the feminist movement, arguing that patriarchy harms both men and women. Scholars like Kimberle Crenshaw and Michael Kimmel examine how rigid gender norms and hierarchies contribute to issues like violence and discrimination in a holistic way, without resorting to vilifying men as a group.
So while I understand your frustration with certain feminist ideas that can come across as accusatory toward men, I would encourage you to explore the diversity of thought within modern feminism. There are many brilliant feminist advocates out there who are working to create a more just and equitable world for everyone, men included. By considering these alternative perspectives with an open mind, you might find more points of alignment than you expect.
Ultimately, I believe we all share the same goal of wanting a society where everyone is free to express themselves fully and without fear - but getting there will require good faith dialogue and a willingness to thoughtfully engage with different points of view.
You do know that feminism promotes female masturbation, as well as male masturbation, right? As part of sexual liberation from religious patriarchal oppression. You know, the thing for which women were accused of being witches and burned at the stakes. The thing that it was only appropriate if a doctor did it for them.
This is insane incel bullshit and you know it.
Her and Solanas both argued men have to be castrated before a feminsit transformation of sexuality can begin.
Solanas had a lot of trauma informing her opinions and was really only mainstream for being absurdly inflammatory and shooting Warhol. Also, most feminists don’t want to castrate people, and most is an understatement…
Direct quotes are “insane incel bull****”? She really said that and the theme appears in all her writings.
Direct quotes are “insane incel bull****”? She really said that and the theme appears in all her writings.
Yeah, still seems like insane incel bullshit to me even after I direct quoted you. Also you’re allowed to swear on the Internet lol
I don’t care what one person said. Feminism will go away when sexism is gone. It’s not war on men, it’s a fight for equality. Using a random quote from one hurt and angry person to frame feminism as something evil is missing the point and pretty incel. Using feminism as an answer to why masturbation is not socially accepted is insane, really.
Test
Ah yes, feminism, an ideology that consists solely of extremist views. I’m not even well versed in feminism and I know that Andrea Dworkin is quite extreme and is a polarizing figure.
If you have reduced feminism to the views of a single extremist than you really need to get your shit together.
It doesn’t consist of all extreme views but many mainstream feminist ideology had extremists views.
Where did you learn about feminism? Did you study it? Have you been involved in it? Do you actually have any touchstone with it? Or, maybe, does it maybe all come from sources that want to portray it negatively, because accurately representing it may undermine your faith in them?
Some people want you to need them, and the way the do this is by creating a monster that is theoretically attacking you. You need them to defend you from it. You just have to recognize that the monster isn’t real and the problems they’re telling you about are actually to cover up actual issues they are creating.
You definitely sound like a person who I would trust to tell me what “mainstream feminist ideology” is.
did you know that women masturbate as well lol
Also this is insanely incel
deleted by creator
if you need lube to tickle the gherkin you’re either the victim of genital mutilation (circumcision, which is fucked up that it’s normalized in the US) or your technique terrifies me.
Surprisingly, our bodies have evolved to make stuff like this perfectly doable without assistence, it even helpfully dispenses some lube if you REALLY get into it!
it even helpfully dispenses some lube if you REALLY get into it!
Yeah, not for everyone.
Lube is for when it starts smoking, to put out the fire.
My hands are soft enough, thank you.
Christianity and capitalism. If it doesn’t make you feel guilty the Christians don’t like it and if you can provide it to yourself for free the capitalists don’t like it.
You kidding? Porn is a 4 billion dollar industry.
You can jerk off without porn. Think of all the advertising and subscriptions on porn sites. Those have nothing to do with masturbation and everything to do with capitalism.
My weiner would disagree
Sorry you’re addicted to porn, G. Get help if you need it.
Jerking it is fine, but just like any coping mechanism, you can abuse it and get addicted to it, then it becomes a problem.
If you’re doomscrolling porn, for example, then maybe it is having a negative effect on you.
Boobscrolling. Poonscrolling? Goonscrolling!
Coomscrolling
Goonscrolling
Goonscrolling is a crazy word for it, and is now what i will be using from now on lmao
Naturally people are motivated by their sex drive, so there are some related consequences. You may be less interested in dating, marriage, hygiene, and prosocial behavior.
I’d be surprised if that’s true. Do we have any data on this or is this just “seems to make sense” stuff.
There are anecdotal reports of antisocial behavior, erectile dysfunction, etc in many small communities. I think yourbrainonporn.com is a good primer and rebootnation is a forum with people trying and failing to stop masterbating even to their own detriment. Make your own decision though.
Yep the best way to start a new moral panic is by recycling tired tropes from an older one (drug / weed panic of the 80s-90s).
Ooff
Sounds like some totally science-based and non-biased sources. I also recommend masturbationwillkillyourdog.com
Citation needed. I know you’re trying to be funny, but there’s actually a lot of evidence going back to 2012 that internet pornography addiction is an actual issue for many people.
Watching pornographic pictures on the Internet: role of sexual arousal ratings and psychological-psychiatric symptoms for using Internet sex sites excessively - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21117979/
Pornographic picture processing interferes with working memory performance - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23167900/
Neural and behavioral correlates of sexual stimuli anticipation point to addiction-like mechanisms in compulsive sexual behavior disorder - https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2006/11/2/article-p520.xml#B12
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
It’s like the video we were all shown in school about dating robots
What about this video?
Hey guys he hasn’t seen the video!
Because they are fools, brother. They fear what we could become if we were free to train out techniques to their maximum without societal judgment
are there any proven negative effects?
-
The risk of becoming a dopamine addict.
-
Your dick gets more and more insensitive. Some day you cannot get off inside a woman anymore, because you need such a strong level of friction that only a hand can create.
- Thank you Mr Science, for the claim of addiction to a chemical produced by the body. Very smart.
- Citation needed, literally everyone’s got different equipment. Some people are more sensitive, others less. Some people get piercings in their back to increase sensitivity, others are already so ticklish they shiver just from the touch.
Wait until you hear about sugar if you think dopamine hits are bad lol. Also number 2 is just made up.
That second one sounds more like an endurance cheat code than anything else
Thinking about it, being circumcised probably reduces sensitivity a lot more than cranking the hog on the regular.
endurance cheat code
LOL
But you may want to think twice:
Endurance by reduced sensory input could also mean reduced pleasure.
Endurance by enhanced self control is what you really want, because then you can get more pleasure overall. It comes with age and practising (the real one).
I dunno man, the bitches sure seem to get a kick out of it either way!
The second one really depends on how you masturbate. Death grip is a bad thing if you want to also get off during sex.
It’s also like saying that eating too much makes you not hungry, no shit einstein
if anything i’d posit that cranking the hog makes you more sensitive, because you’ll be so used to it that abstaining for a week is almost unbearable, much like how most people in developed countries feel a pit in their stomach if they don’t eat for half a day.
Is that actually true? I suspect not.
Most people start “enjoying their own company” years before getting to try for real.
If there was a question of insensitivity, then surely problems would be much more prevalent at ages when people are enjoying themselves more frequently. But it’s not the case at all.
It’s also at an age when your libido is essentially unlimited. Were the opportunity to present itself, these people could adequately perform for 15 different partners in a row.
Desensitization takes time. By the time it sets in, most people are past the age of unlimited libido. There are also different forms of sensitivity (and thus, desensitization). OP referred to physical, but mental seems to be a more common issue.
I get what they’re trying to say, but they also carefully omit very important details. There are a lot of things that can be unbelievably bad for you, but essential in moderation. This is really no different. If you aggressively jerk off 15 times a day, obviously you are completely screwing yourself in multiple ways, but in moderation, it’s good for your body
-
