Looking for somewhere to discuss stuff that doesn’t swing right or left and doesn’t ban people for voicing an opinion.
This post reminds me of an old adage I heard about driving. “Everyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and everyone that drives faster is a maniac”
As others are saying, your middle ground is someone else’s extreme.
Well I was 2 day banned from Reddit saying I disagree with a ruling that was in favour with a transgender person and that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
I got a 2 day ban for harassment and abuse, appealed it as it was not, and then got a permaban.
There’s a big difference between “I wouldn’t choose that,” and “They should be prevented by force from choosing that.”
What you’re looking for is a hate group. You can advocate not just judicial rulings limiting the freedom of minority groups, but for disposing of the minorities once and for all. If that’s too extreme then you’ll just need to tolerate them. Be better than those that didn’t tolerate your hatred.
No I am not. I never said I hate transgender people. you are not putting words in my mouth
There’s been no rulings granting a transgender rights greater than another. It’d have been global news, the consequences of which would still be cascading through the judicial system.
So, when this transgender person was granted what may have been, after an arduous battle, equality in one situation, you disagreed.
What defines humans from other animals is complex communication and it’s derivatives. I need not know the transgender person, be transgender myself, or even have a gay friend to feel basic human sympathy and empathy for them. That’s the minimum human response: neutrality, equality. Anything less is animalistic hatred.
Edit: I’ve passed judgement on just this perspective you hold, not on you as a person. If I didn’t believe you valuable I’d not have invested the time to explain why I expect more and believe you capable.
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I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.
What does that even mean?
From my perspective trans people just want people to stop weaponizing the government against them. It’s just the latest bs moral panic to keep people distracted on culture war nonsense instead of actually trying to change anything of substance for the better.
It means that social media and now some public institutions enable transgenders to not seek mental health support for their gender dysphoria, and continue to act out. It’s really sad and I want them to get help.
Don’t really see how you have come to that conclusion. Lots of institutions in conservative states are making it harder for trans people to get treatment rather than the inverse. Honestly this reads more like concern trolling.
I don’t live in the USA, but that’s why I’d never vote for them.
Ok, so what institutions from your area do you feel block trans people from getting medical care?
I never said that , I said gender dysphoria is being enabled instead of being encouraged to seek treatment.
I thought there was a mental health component in the preparation/decision process prior to transitioning.
That’s like, 90% of it
So OP lives in a place where this isn’t the case? I understand being upset about that.
“…that I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.”
Ah, there it is. Has the same vibes as, “I don’t have a problem with black people, just black culture.”
And what “ideals” are you taking issue with? You mean how trans folks want to be treated equally and fairly? Or maybe how trans folks want to raise awareness of violence across the world towards them? Or maybe how trans folks would like people to respect their pronouns, the exact same way people have been doing for centuries with nicknames and preferred names?
I’m talking about being able to discuss things like that without being banned to a certain extent. Example: I disagree with trans people “ok”. I want every trans person dead “not ok, ban”
You can discuss trans issues all over the place. Trans folks and allies in thousands of forums, websites, and physical locations like diversity centers at universities will happily provide you with reading materials to learn about trans issues and larger LGBT+ issues.
What people won’t tolerate is bigotry and hate. You can disagree with trans folks about all kinds of things, just like anyone else in the world, but nobody is going to tolerate you questioning their identity or whether or not they should have the same rights as anybody else.
The fact that you keep treating trans folks and their views as a universal collective means one of three things:
- You disagree with the core issues that 99.99% of trans people agree on.
- You are using “transgenders” as some kind of dog whistle for your bigoted views and you’re trying to play the victim in the classic, “I’m just asking questions, why is that banned?” kind of way.
- You’re totally ignorant to trans and larger LGBT+ issues and you need to get informed.
If it’s the first, then you’re a bigot who doesn’t think trans folks should be treated fairly and equally in society.
If it’s the second, you’re also a bigot and just trying to hide it.
If it’s the third, you need to start reading and listening to LGBT+ content and learn about social issues from them and their lived experience. Go to a site like glaad.org and start reading there. You can also go to your local library and ask for the LGBT+ section, they will usually have materials and content there that will be informative. Also, any major college/university will have a diversity center or club, go there and ask them for good starter material for getting informed on LGBT+ issues.
Thanks for the response.
I don’t hate transgender people, what I do hate (I mean that word) is that we enable gender dysphoria and not help them get treatment for it. The way that we promote it, kinda bothers me as I see it as enabling behavior. I actually feel sorrow and pain for them, as they are the ones suffering the most with no idea what is going on inside their mind. I will note on the record, condoning violence, abuse or hate towards them. No human being who has not committed atrocities deserves that.
I do not dog whistle because I have no one to whistle to. I am not left wing and I am not right wing. I have no political label because I choose not to subscribe to tribal banter. Call me a modern Richard Stallman.
transgender people get treatment for it all the time. For most of these, that treatment is called transitioning – medically, socially, or both. Sure some people may realize that transitioning isn’t correct for them and that is why there is so much gatekeeping. You can’t change it anymore than you can make a gay person straight.
You are literally the “enlightened centrist” stereotype, and you are talking nonsense about trans treatment. Despite the vast majority of research showing that gender affirming care has extremely high success rates and almost all trans folks not regretting transitioning, you apparently refuse to accept that.
Worse yet, you are trying to frame your bigotry as love and care, the same way homophobic Christians claim they “love and care about gay people.”
There is no such thing as a “politically neutral” position. That would imply that there is some perfect center between different views, as if political viewpoints can be narrowed down to a 2-dimensional line with “right” & “left.” All views have implications for society, and everybody falls into different varying categories and schools of thought, even if they aren’t aware of it.
Claiming that you don’t means either you are either very ignorant to political theory and philosophy, or you are deliberately being obtuse out of some false sense of moral/intellectual superiority.
Inform yourself, or if you’re a bigot, just be open about it and stop pretending you’re somehow magically above or outside of political/social biases.
I never said I’m enlightened, nor do I give myself that title. Why are people quick to label on here?
And he doesn’t consider gender affirming care as treatment!
So, the goal of treatment is not to simply reduce dysphoria. It’s mainly to address their many times higher rate of suicide. The treatment that has been found to be most effective is medical transition.
It’s not some cosmetic thing you can just go out and get. It requires doctors, and is very much considered a strong intervention only pursued when it is necessary, similar to having your stomach stapled for dealing with obesity. If you went to your doc and wanted a stomach stapling, there would be a lot you would have to go through first, to make sure such a drastic treatment was really necessary. Same with a transition.
The issue becomes then, how to treat these rare cases in our society after the medical intervention is done. Which bathroom, can they play sports, stuff like that.
I think that instead of both sides yelling at each other. There needs to be a discussion around this from both. When people stop talking to each other is when problems start to happen.
“I’m apolitical” == “I have political opinions that are too extremist even for political parties”
So because I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders or immigration, I’m extreme? What?
Hmm.
What are the “ideals of transgenders?” The right to exist, free from persecution? If you’re opposed to basic human dignity and rights which you’d be really pissed about it someone tried to take them away from you, then, yeah. That’s a fairly extremist view.
Immigration… well, I can at least understand the thought process. But unless you’re Native American yourself, then that’s just fucking hypocritical. I wouldn’t say “extreme,” just more “asshole.” Like, you got yours, and fuck everyone else trying to get what your immigrant great-great-grandparents did - it’s a kind of dick attitude. If you are of indigenous descent, then sure: you get a free pass on that topic, from me, at least.
We should be able to discuss these topics, and I’ll agree Lemmy can be pretty hostile when it shouldn’t be. Lemmy’s got its own Overtone Window and it can be rather fascist about enforcing it. However, if you approach a controversial topic at least attempting to come across as open to debate, and not just ranting about cross-dressing Mexican laborers taking your job - and really depending on the instance and forum you post into, you stand a fair chance of having a decent discussion.
You’re not going to get much love going into a feminist community whining about affirmative action is actually just sexism in disguise, no matter what.
I’ll just point out that many of is are aware of the paradox of tolerance: intolerance cannot itself be tolerated, or the bigots will eventually win. So if you’re feeling as it you’re getting slapped down about some topics, maybe consider it your position is one of tolerance or intolerance, and know that Lemmy’s aware of the danger of allowing a Nazi to sit at the table with you.
I don’t agree that we should normalize transgenders in society and should instead encourage them to seek help with their gender dysphoria. I am against immigration because it is artificially increasing the cost of living in my country and raising the unemployment rate.
The best treatment we have for reducing suicide for transgender people is gender affirming care.
Those are pretty common opinions. It’s sad that some people cannot accept them.
The cure for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care, which includes treating human beings like human beings and allowing them a place in society.
no. unfortunately, it is just on… way past donkey kong.
I’m the small line in the middle.
The best advice is to be on communities on as many servers as possible. You can’t really obtain “political neutrality” heavy-handed-ly but in aggregate by getting as many viewpoints as possible it will be neutral in aggregate
Everything is political, even the desire for an apolitical space.
I understand, but maybe I should have said “neutral moderation to an extent”
What makes a man turn neutral?
Chronic depression, bitterness, apathy
Switzerland was neutral! We need to be more like Germany - ambitious and misunderstood
Apathy.
Or was he just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Aren’t we all?
No, only the Swiss.
Ah, jä.
No - there is no such thing.
Yes , I am. The US right is so batshit that I’ve never found one I could even consider voting for. And most democrats in the US are to the right of my beliefs.
But I am pretty cenrterist in my policy beliefs.
Well Reddit is mostly left, twitter is super duper anti vaxx right and I dunno what it is here.
Lemmy.world is full of pro-China tankies, Russian trolls, ignorant dipshits who upvote islamic terrorism against Jews, troglodyte moronic moderators, and pearl-clutching self-censoring idiots.
Yeah the amount of people who are pro terrorism here are crazy. I think this place is even worse than Reddit going even harder left.
I’m fascinated by your claim to be neutral, and yet the words you type out are squarely right-wing talking points. You said “I don’t agree with the ideals of transgenders.” Then in another comment we find out you have a problem with immigration. And now you’re claiming that everyone who doesn’t want innocent Palestinian children to be bombed are pro-terrorism.
Your comments and post here are incredibly disingenuous. You’re not here for a discussion. You’re low-key trolling for an argument. I completely understand why you were banned from other places.
What? How did you get me saying Israel defending themsevles from terrorists is me calling for Israel to bomb children? What in tarnation?
It’s literally the comment I replied to.
Calling Hamas terrorists is me wanting children dead. Roger Roger.
If by asking for a neutral place you are asking for somewhere that conservatives with hateful, childish, and dangerous beliefs that have no quantifiable basis in reality can go where they won’t be treated like children… shrugs
Not anywhere I will spend my time, conservatives can stay in their lame isolated pockets on the fediverse, the rest of the fediverse is for people who actually have functioning capacities for empathy and want to have adult conversations that adhere to reality.
Sounds like you’re trying to make this an isolated pocket in the fediverse with that hatred you spread.
Sounds a lot like this place too, honestly.
Not knocking people with similar beliefs hanging out together, but it’s wild yousay that and don’t see that in lemmy.
Not knocking people with similar beliefs hanging out together, but it’s wild yousay that and don’t see that in lemmy.
Yawn here we go again with slippery slope echo chamber arguments.
Ok well I AM knocking conservatives when they hang out in groups, they become incredibly toxic and violent in their beliefs and they become dangerous even to the existence of a basic apparatus of federal government (see January 6th). Still, like putting all the rotting food in a trash can, while it doesn’t slow down the rot of the already rotting food, it does keep it contained and safe. Conservative hateful ideologies can only really thrive when centrists use force to open the door to larger communities and make them accept the presence of fascists. Then normalization can start that will indoctrinate people who never otherwise would have accepted the violence and unnecessary cruelty of conservatism simply because people begin to think “oh, well we wouldn’t have let an ACTUAL fascist through the door right!? We are civilized!”.
The difference between groups of leftists is while they all might have pink hair and punk looking clothes and rainbow colors or whatever, and they all might “look the same” to you…. but unlike your pathetic, lame conservative friends, your leftist friends will accept you for whoever you want to be whether we are talking about your gender, clothing tastes, desire to express feminine or masculine identities, off the wall careers you want to follow, new developments in your relationship to your spirituality or religion or really WHATEVER the fuck you want. Your leftist friends will give you direct aid no questions asked when you need it, they will be vulnerable and emotional with you when you need it and never shy away from a heartfelt conversation about love or caring for others just because it is awkward.
Your conservative friends will be too afraid to hug you when you reveal to them you are far out on an edge of depression and scared you are going to hurt yourself because that might look gay, they will literally leave you floundering at the edge of the void because they have been so fucked by their ideology that their first concern is to assure you they didn’t abruptly switch who they were attracted to and were now trying to make a move on you while you are emotionally devastated.
Conservatives are for the most part dangerous children who think they are adults, and they largely stand in the way of younger generations fighting for their survival. Go find your local radical leftist librarian at whatever protest all the kids are at on the other hand…
When leftists get mad it isn’t because they are drunk at their high school kids sports game and yelling at an innocent scared high school trans kid that he is gonna beat the queers up, they get mad because people don’t have healthcare or homes, or when genocide is happening or when we are destroying the earth in a way we can never fix. They chain themselves to a tree in the path of a dozer which is a universe away from being angry and mad at people because you don’t understand them and that scares you, the leftist understands exactly what functions the tree, the bulldozer and their body all play in that moment and they willing and full of righteous anger to do it.
The shrillness you place in leftism is we don’t make time for bigots, and if your social awareness is so muted that you can’t tell the difference between shouting down a bigot and bullying a truly innocent and well intentioned person, than don’t get upset at leftists for seeing a massive red flag flying over your head in terms of deducing your intentions.
yawn here we go with over generalizing for the “other” when your side on the extreme takes the same action.
Ok well I AM knocking conservatives when they hang out in groups, they become incredibly toxic and violent in their beliefs and they become dangerous even to the existence of a basic apparatus of federal government (see January 6th). Stillups, they become incredibly toxic and violent in their beliefs and they become dangerous even to the existence of a basic apparatus of federal government (see January 6th).
Lol, right off the bat, like the extreme left have any respect for the apparatus of federal government. 🙄🙄 (see blm riots, where protesters in Portland attacked and caused damage to The Courthouse, The Edith Green-Wendall Wyatt Federal Building, the Gus J. Solomon U.S Courthouse, The Pioneer Courthouse, and the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement building.)
I don’t even gotta respond to anything else. Find it in one, you find it in the reflection of the other.
Lol, right off the bat, like the extreme left have any respect for the apparatus of federal government. 🙄🙄 (see blm riots, where protesters in Portland attacked and caused damage to The Courthouse, The Edith Green-Wendall Wyatt Federal Building, the Gus J. Solomon U.S Courthouse, The Pioneer Courthouse, and the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement building.)
right like minor acts of property damage equate to literally attempting to overthrow the federal government?
You fool
Lol, your reply is why no one with any common sense who has seen the videos both can take you seriously.
There is a saying: “facts have a liberal bias”. :-) Some people ofc vehemently disagree.
Each instance is different, as is each community. Many do not follow their own rules, especially about “no politics allowed” but it creeps in everywhere. Tbf, modding is a hard job.
Though you can block communities that you don’t want to see in your feed, and even entire instances (it won’t stop people from them downvoting you or even commenting on your stuff, but it will stop notifications being sent to you when they do. Get to it via Settings -> Blocks -> Instance. Users and communities can be done similarly but it’s easier to just visit their page and hit the block button there. There’s a saying about that too: block early and often, for the sake of your sanity.
I don’t know about instances - there’s a lot to look at like lemm.ee, lemmy.cafe, reddthat.com, sh.itjust.works, etc. - but I hope this helped in other ways:-).
It’s extremely had to be politically neutral for a global community.
The centre of the political spectrum in one country might be left/right in another.
Then comes the extreme ideologies, are they trolling or genuine? Is that opinion considered hateful in some countries?
It’s a complete minefield. Why would someone without an agenda to push even try? Most neutrals would just say ‘no politics’.
Really well put. Totally agree that once a community grows large enough there is no single mindset for every topic.
From your comments here, you’re clearly not “politically neutral”
How so?
Because your politics is clearly conservative.
“Non-political” means “no lefty stuff” 90% of the time. Don’t even gotta look at comment history but I’m gonna anyway to confirm my bias.
Edit: 4 minute diagnosis: they recognize the right is generally insane and don’t identify with it while holding positions such as “Israel is defending itself” and “we shouldn’t normalize transgenders and should treat dysphoria instead of enabling it,” which translated to plain speak means conversion therapy.
You could always start this if you can’t find it, could be interesting? c/middleground?
Edit: the center is going to mean different things to different people too.
No, because it goes against some of the rules alot of the lemmies have of they take a post out of context. I don’t agree immigration and I don’t agree with transgenders. I don’t hate them though. I’d still get banned for that
There’s at least some parts of the lemmy community where those views are acceptable even if generally they’re frowned upon in the wider community. Maybe !debate@hilariouschaos.com ? The hilariouschaos instance seems relatively err… libertarian in their approach to free speech but still is widely federated to other instances. Not speaking from experience as I’m not subscribed to any of their communities but that was the impression I got.
Regardless of our current differences of opinion on transgender folks and (most kinds of) immigration, and the differences between you and the lemmy community at large I’d like to think it’s a big enough place that you’ll be able to find room here for respectful discussion, or start a community of your own on an instance where it can happen.
You repeating “I don’t hate them” over and over while at the same time attacking trans people at their core sounds a lot like you’re either in denial, or you’re aware that your position is an unpopular one. Either way, it sounds like you need to do some self discovery.
I don’t make comments for popularity, I make comments because I want to have a discussion.
