Not like “I went to school with one” but have had an actual friendship?
I’ve had a couple of conversations recently where people have confidently said things about the Black community that are ridiculously incorrect. The kind of shit where you can tell they grew up in a very white community and learned about Black history as a college freshman.
Disclaimer: I am white, but I grew up in a Black neighborhood. I was one of 3 white kids in my elementary school lol, including my brother.
Not since freshman year in high school. My list of friends has only shrunk since then.
I live in a city immediately adjacent to one of the statistically blackest cities in America. I went to school in said black city for most of my childhood. I work in that city and have lots of black coworkers that I get along with just fine. My take? They’re just people like any other. Some of them are assholes. Some of them beat their wives. Some of them are total nerds. Some of them are the kind and intelligent. Some aren’t. Just like every other skin color. Black people are just people.
And yeah, people assume a lot of shit about them as a group and make idiotic blanket statements. I have some of my own preconceived notions in my head, and when they pop up in my head I remind myself how dumb it is to carry those.
I live in a city immediately adjacent to one of the statistically blackest cities in America.
Isn’t it terrible that my immediate reaction to this sentence was, “oh so you probably live in an extremely white area”?
I have some of my own preconceived notions in my head, and when they pop up in my head I remind myself how dumb it is to carry those.
That’s kind of what I’m getting at. It’s a constant thing that the human mind tends towards, and the best defense (imo) is personal experience. I always remember the gangbanger 19yo I knew, last I heard he was going to trial for an armed robbery, real “thug” type but he once confessed to me that he loved listening to pop music like Gotye and Katy Perry, but had to put on a real mean face when he was wearing his earbuds so his friends would think he was listening to rap. He wanted to open a barbershop and was teaching his little brother how to ride a bike.
You’re right, people are people. And they’re complex. Groups of people (race, culture, religion) are just complex groups of complex people.
I just wish people with no experience in a culture would take a step back and be a little less trusting of what they hear 3rd hand.
I live in Canada. In Canada we just call them “people” or “Canadians”.
I’ve met, worked, and work with African Americans in the US.
I’ve heard lots of racist whites call black people “Canadians” when they want to speak in code. e.g., “lots of Canadians here tonight.” You know what word they’re using behind closed doors.
Assholes are going to asshole.
I’m hesitant to answer such an odd question, but let’s go for it. Before answering, I think it’s important to establish two things. One, I was born and lived the vast majority of my life in the USA, tho I have spent over 2 years collectively outside of the country. Two, I’m white of skin, but ethnically Latino. I’m so white looking, that I can be in a social group of mostly Latinos for 3 months before anyone realizes I’m Latino myself.
My entire life, I’ve been around Black people. My 2nd friend ever was a Black Panamanian kid. I went to a school in Opa Locka, FL which is practically 99% Black. My high school girlfriend would technically be considered Black, who I saw her as her and if I had to label her race, she’d be “mulata” to me. Btw, “muIato” is not in anyway an insult in Latino culture. If anything, it’s a term of endearment. Moving on, I joined the military and worked along side and served under Black people. I currently have several friends and acquaintances that are Black. My neighbor is Blacker than midnight on Broadway and Myrtle. Jk, that’s an awesome Mos Def lyric. But seriously, my neighbor’s skin is like legit black as in the color, and I’m one of his maybe 3 total non-Black friends (he’s exclusive for a reason) and maybe the only white-skinned person that has been inside his house in the past 2 years. I spent this recent New Year’s with him and his friends at a party. I was the only non-Black person there. Also, I have teammates in my hobby and acquaintances in the larger social circle that are Black.
This is how I see it…
Black people aren’t Black people. They’re people. Nothing about them makes them Black. They’re just there being themselves. If you ask a little kid if they’re Black, they will look at their skin and answer based on their objective perception. As such, Black people vary in every characteristic just like any other set of humans that are grouped by a physical feature.
However, Black are Black people because of history and current state of society. African-Americans are representing a group of people that have a common history, ascribed place in society, and resulting culture. That’s what makes them Black: the way they were treated for centuries, the way they are treated now, and the way they endure it. The way I personally understand it in my head, Black people are the expression of a group of humans that have been singled out, used, and treated poorly by the rest of society based on a completely irrelevant physical characteristic that cannot be hidden.
As far as immigrants, Black people that come to the US often find themselves in an odd situation. They don’t fit in well with dominant White people because of their skin color, and they don’t fit in well with Black people because of their culture. Not all White people are racist, but some are. Some are overtly racist, while others are more covert or even unaware. Being racist is generally understood as an immoral thing, so some racist people learn to hide it. Others that are trying their best to be just, think they aren’t racist, but are based on their values and behaviors. What I mean by this is that they may hold values that are incompatible or oppressive of the Black community, yet have absolutely no problem with anyone based solely on their skin color. A supervisor at work may have no issue with anyone’s skin color, but rate their employee’s performance in part by their use of “proper English” and attire. Due to covert racism, most people of color start to become mistrusting of White people because they don’t know who is and who isn’t racist at face value. Back to focusing on immigrants, African-Americans think that many immigrant Black people haven’t endured life in the US as Black enough to fit in. Immigrants in general come with a different set of values, and in particular, a strong belief that hard work results in economic success. This belief often clashes with the experience of African-Americans. The conflict results in a disconnect between African-Americans and Black immigrants.
I’ve always been someone that cheers for the underdog. I don’t know what it is, but I do. Maybe it’s my 'tism, always having felt like an outsider and being bullied, I’m forced to empathize with underdogs. Regardless, to me, Black people are the shit. The way they have adjusted to society has lead them to develop awesome perspectives, skills, and contributions. For example, they were historically given the least favored food, so they learned how to make that delicious which made them amazing cooks. They are marginalized and neglected by society, so they created counter-culture such as blues, rock, hip-hop, and jazz to express injustice, pain, and pride in overcoming hardship. Almost any popular music that has come out of the US has its roots in the African-American community. They are oppressed in the workforce, so they became amazing athletes in which success is extremely objective. It makes no sense to oppress Willy Mays when he’s blatantly the one carrying the team.
They have also developed an extraordinary sense of social awareness. Whenever I go somewhere and there aren’t any Black people around, I get concerned. Either the place I’m at is actively restricting their participation, or they know something I don’t and are choosing to stay away. I could be wrong, but I still notice when it happens.
Additionally, as ethnic outsiders with justified and necessary collective hyper-vigilance, they are aware of what other ethnic groups do differently. So, when they talk about it, I find it interesting because it teases apart what is universally American and what is based on sub-group ethnicity.
They have also developed a sense of community I haven’t seen in other ethnic groups. Black people take care of each other, and as long as someone isn’t a problem to the group, no one from their group is excluded based on undesirable characteristics (mental issues, substance dependence, criminal history, etc.). They all accept each other and seem to have an understanding that life is hard, so of course people adjust in unhealthy ways sometimes. In fact, my neighbor definitely has his issues, but he still has visitors more days than not. And they always come with some sort of gift. I’ve luckily fallen into his social circle a little, and they check up on me sometimes too. I have never had this experience with other neighbors.
Something else I’ve noticed among Black people is that they are more emotionally free and fun. In contrast, White people seem controlled and restricted. It’s like White people have a standard for emotional control and respect. It’s considered rude to be emotional and wild. Black people don’t really follow that. If they feel excited, they will yell. If they have a lot of energy and there’s a good beat, they will dance. If they lose someone, they will cry and yell in pain. I’m not saying White people don’t do those things, but it’s different. Let me illustrate with an example. If someone is dancing at a White party, it’s either very good dancing moves that were practiced, or something soft and individual or with one other person. If someone is dancing at a Black party, it’s more likely to be extravagant, full of emotion, and collective with a group. Of course, there is overlap, such as rural White people and line dancing, so I’m having difficulty explaining it. I guess my running observational theory is that White people dancing are saying “look at what I can do” and Black people are saying “look at how I feel”.
That’s it from me. If I insulted anyone or was incorrect, please let me know. My only goal was to express how I saw things and encourage further conversation. I would be happy to receive respectful critique as I know I am not perfect and always looking to continually grow.
My whole family is racist, so I’ve spent a lot of time un-learning shit while being mindful of my subconscious biases. The last time I was with my family, I had to leave the room because they were all sitting in a circle talking about how black people are genetically inferior. Literally, that’s just how they spend some evenings, being overtly racist to each other.
I’ve had a few black friends throughout my life, all wildly different. One was a stuffy nerd with alopecia. One was a little person grunge rock bass player. One is the most eloquent, kind, and fanciful gay man I’ve ever met.
There is one, lone insight I think I’ve gleaned from my experiences with black culture. My family often complains about black people being loud, and I think I have an understanding as to why they sometimes are. One is, like you said, they aren’t as afraid to express emotion and that can be as loud as the strength of the emotions. Another reason, I think, is that throughout history they have been marginalized, ignored, and forced to live in out-of-the-way areas. This is not lost on them. I think a way of reclaiming their humanity is in reclaiming their right to be seen and heard. They are THERE. You can ignore them and the issues facing them but you cannot ignore 24" subwoofers. You can’t ignore bright colors, dazzling chrome, and the shaking hydraulics of a lifted car.
Also, I’m with you. Whenever black folk are around, I just feel safer. Like, when I go out, I fear right wing nutjobs and their violence, and that just feels less likely to occur when I’m around non-white people. If I’m somewhere and there’s only other white people, I’m nervous because one of them is guaranteed a brain dead red-tin-foil-hat wearing psychopath, and with no minorities around he’s likely to let everybody know exactly how racist he is.
Hey there, runaway cousin! I too have racist family members that speak that crap and have also been in other environments where the central point of a conversation is to devalue and hate others. I have tried to ride it out hoping that I can either ignore it, excuse it, or even have a helpful impact, but I have gotten to the point that I just can’t. It is disgusting. I cannot tolerate that hate circle jerk and feel shameful for even have knowingly been a witness to it. Now, I have completely cut off my sister for months in part because of her hate. If it’s not one group, it’s another. In my experience, the thing is that it doesn’t just stop there. It’s part of a whole social complex that is terrible for me. Not only do I have to bear the shame of it, but there are other matters as well. I cannot function in that environment.
Another reason, I think, is that throughout history they have been marginalized, ignored, and forced to live in out-of-the-way areas. This is not lost on them. I think a way of reclaiming their humanity is in reclaiming their right to be seen and heard. They are THERE. You can ignore them and the issues facing them but you cannot ignore 24" subwoofers. You can’t ignore bright colors, dazzling chrome, and the shaking hydraulics of a lifted car.
I think that was beautifully said! ❤️❤️❤️ Additionally, they have been told that everything they like is bad solely because they like it, so they are being proud of having their own taste and are showing it off. So to them, I say: Drive around town, blast that system, and pump those hydraulics! I’m proud of your taste too and thanks for being you. 🥹😆🥳
Black people aren’t Black people. They’re people.
This! I couldn’t believe it when I had to answer a question about race on the entry card into the US.
I get asking about skin color. It’s like hair color, or eye color, but race? So many assumptions and biases just in that one word (race).
I had maybe one that would actually fit your specific terms (though he preferred <adjective> Black Billy with the adjective usually being big or sexy). One of my good friends living in Texas was black, but he’d call himself a Black American or Cuban American rather than African American. In Japan, my black friends were (I moved to the middle of nowhere recently and don’t use social media, so friendships tend to fade) black men from Africa (mostly Tanzania).
I think African American is one of those terms that (a) is super American-centric and (b) isn’t something everyone would call themselves. You can actually read into how “Native Americans” feel about that term (many don’t like it, apparently, because America (the country being the US)) wasn’t the place they came from; they came from the land that their ancestors settled, not some stolen version of it. Some actually prefer “Indian” while others favor something more like “aboriginal peoples” or “first nations”.
I think African American is one of those terms that (a) is super American-centric and (b) isn’t something everyone would call themselves.
That’s correct, but if I just said “Black” then all the Europeans would come flooding in talking about their African coworkers. I’m specifically asking about the majority of black people in the US who are descended from slaves.
I have had close friendships with two black people. One was originally from Usa (which probably qualified him as African American for your question), the other was originally fom Nigeria, but was a German citizen.
I live in Germany btw. where nearly everybody has white skin color.
Right, I know we have a lot of international users here on lemmy, so I wanted to specify Black Americans, the descendents of slaves. For instance, one of my friends and coworkers is a very dark skinned Tunisian, but that’s a very different culture than the one I was asking about.
No, I am only German, not international.
Do you exist in a nation?
Yes, I exist.
Then you are international.
intranational. Easy mistake.
deleted by creator
Americans are also internationals
Correct.
the word no longer has meaning
Incorrect.
*whoosh*
oh wow, it’s been like a decade since I saw someone do a “*whoosh*”
Did you just praise yourself for doing a thing you hadn’t seen in a long time?
Based move on their part, even if I do not agree on the ‘whoosh’, hahahah
No value judgement, just noting the change of fashion. We’re clearly better off without it, but it’s a bit nostalgic.
I know a couple of black people, but none of them is African-American.
I was born in the US, in Mississippi, but moved to Boston, Massachusetts, as a young adult. A significant portion of my friends were black as a child, and then I fell in with an international community of Haitian-, Nigerian-, and Latin-Americans when I moved to South Boston.
As with anywhere, most people are nice if you express interest in them and their cultures. There will be preconceived notions for some people towards you, and it’s important to understand that most stigmas stem from an absence of interaction. It can be surprisingly easy to break those barriers if you just make any sort of effort. It can sometimes be hard, but it’s so worth it. The kindest people I have met have been from these communities, mostly I think because they’ve worked so hard to build a better life for themselves and their families and friends.
Few things are as rewarding as being accepted into different communities. You learn and experience so much that you wouldn’t otherwise. My favorite experiences have been meeting the families of friends, being invited to cookouts with traditional foods and drink you have never had, and having an incredibly reliable community to lean on in times of hardship - we all help each other because we’re all in the rat race together. All it takes is some humility and a willingness to learn.
I know a couple. One was from Kenya, the other Sudan. I know a dozen or so Black Americans, several of which I have heard out right laugh at “African-American.”
Part of the problem is that the link to Africa was severed when their ancestors came here as slaves. Acknowledging that is pretty vital…
Yeah, I generally refer to the descendants of American slaves as Black (with a capital B) but I wanted my post title to be more recognizable to non-American audiences.
Same. My cousins are half black. I always like seeing them. But they don’t really have any connection to Africa beyond their blood (which if you think about it we all do), and we live in Canada, not America. Their dad is from Barbados.
You know “the black community” isn’t a homogenous group right?
In a certain sense, there’s no such thing as a homogenous group, period. But there are similarities between individuals with similar cultural background and historical context which makes it useful to talk about them as a group, while acknowledging that individuals will deviate from the average.
But there are a huge number of black people in the country with a huge number of cultural backgrounds.
Depends on how you slice em. A white person from Minnesota is very different from a white person in NYC, but it’s often useful to group both of them as white to contrast with, say, Asian. In the same sense, Asian can mean Chinese, and Chinese can mean Taiwanese, etc
Grouping people based on similarities is not inherently bad.
Grouping people based on similarities is not inherently bad.
“White” is not a “similarity” - it’s a racial classification.
Splitting hairs
The supposed “racial commonality” proselytized by white supremacists is purely a product of “scientific racism.”
No… it’s not a question of splitting hairs.
I thought the last of you “race isn’t real lalala if I don’t acknowledge it it’s not real” people got shamed into silence decades ago.
It’s decidedly not useful to say they have the same culture, though, because they don’t. There are common elements, but they’re nowhere near the majority, especially comparing those common elements to the common elements they also share with most black Americans because they’re American.
Well that’s a ridiculous take. So it becomes impossible to discuss culture?
Black people from Chicago, St Louis, and Oakland have cultural similarities. If you refuse to acknowledge that, you’ve taken “I don’t see race” so far you’ve looped back around to racism. This is exactly what I was getting at with the question.
It’s perfectly possible to discuss culture. Race is a small part of their culture, and you talking about “you must not know black people if the black people you know are different than the ones from my neighborhood” is racist as fuck. You’re disqualifying a hell of a lot of black people from “really being black” with that shit.
Black people from Chicago, St Louis, and Oakland have cultural similarities.
Of course they do. Those are all urban environments. Most white people from the same neighborhoods will have mostly similar cultures, because, like I said, race is a small part of that culture.
Is it an important part? Absolutely. There are systemic issues that they are exposed to because of their minority status that white people in the same environment are not. But there are plenty of black people who aren’t from urban environments, and many of them are as different from black urban culture as they are from white urban culture.
Most white people from the same neighborhoods will have mostly similar cultures
Absolutely not true!
Wikipedia has an entire article on African-American Culture.
African-American culture,[1][2] also known as Black American culture or Black culture in American English,[3][4][5][6][7] refers to the cultural expressions of African Americans, either as part of or distinct from mainstream American culture. African-American culture has been influential on American and global worldwide culture as a whole.[8][9][10]
Well that’s a ridiculous take. So it becomes impossible to discuss culture?
Black people from Chicago, St Louis, and Oakland have cultural similarities. If you refuse to acknowledge that, you’ve taken “I don’t see race” so far you’ve looped back around to racism. This is exactly what I was getting at with the question.
I’m a white guy who moved to Japan and it’s funny sometimes that a handful of people think we all must know each other (and all speak English though that’s true in my case).
Am Detroiter. I know a few black folks. I even consider some to be my friends and community.
I’ve always had the suspicion that Detroit has really cleaned up since the early 2000s and is underrated in the national narrative. Is that true?
I like living in cold places, so I might look into buying a house there one day.
Detroit is bangin right now. If you come here, you will never want to leave. No joke. People from all over are experiencing new D
Phrasing
My best friend in kindergarten until high school (although through high school, just got to see her less because we no longer lived near each other) was mixed. We had many sleep overs and birthday parties and going out to places! It’s impossible to contact her now, but her Facebook still seems active and she’s doing well.
I’ve had a couple of conversations recently where people have confidently said things about the Black community that are ridiculously incorrect
Do tell.
Well the main thing disqualifying me is that we’re assuming I was ever good at making any friends or that this is my fault. I have African-American acquaintances, but if only true friends count, you’ll have to give me a rain check on that one.
Same.
The closest I think is my wife’s friend’s husband. I’m half white, half middle eastern. He’s about a decade or two older than I am. We grew up with the Atlantic between us. I get along with him great. No issues. Great chemistry. Two chill dudes. 🤷♂️
I don’t know any Americans let along African-Americans.
Omg, that NAME! BWAHAHAHA! I’m sorry. I am so sorry! I just keep imagining you waking up in the morning, sir, looking in the mirror and then in all seriousness saying to yourself… deep voice “You know what would be a really kick-ass name? Taserface!” That’s how I hear you in my head! What was your second choice? “Scrotum Hat”?
It’s about time someone noticed. HAHA. That is one of my favourite scenes in all of the MCU.
How long did you have to wait, señor face?
June 14, 4 weeks ago.
Well, not living in America certainly makes it difficult to start friendships with African American people.
But all the black people I know are extremely annoyed at the automatic assumption that their culture is Africa American.
Do you actually know any African Americans? I mean, surely they’re just Americans?
Are you like a Eurasian Steppes American or something? 😂
It’s ok, one day you’ll grow up and realize how cringe it is to pretend to not understand something just so you can do a “well ACKSHUALLY”
I’m near pension age, doughboy. Why can you not just forget about calling them African just because they’re black? I’d be fuming
Guess you won’t grow up then. Sad.
