Benjamin Netanyahu has warned Lebanese people that they could face “destruction and suffering” like the Palestinians in Gaza if they don’t “free” the country from Hezbollah.
“You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering like we see in Gaza,” the Israeli prime minister said in a video address directed to the people of Lebanon.
“I say to you, the people of Lebanon: Free your country from Hezbollah so that this war can end.”
Just Bibi casually threatening a second genocide, nothing to see here /s
I wonder how fully, fully, fully Biden will support it.
People here constantly repeating this is so tiresome. Read this: https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/08/politics/bob-woodward-book-war-joe-biden-putin-netanyahu-trump/index.html
And yet he has yet to get off Bibi’s dick.
Still sending weapons, aid money. no sanctions. Military support when they fuck around are about to find out.
But Biden is shaking his fist very angrily! That has to count for something! /s
Is his brow furrowed, though?
It’s the complete performance, though maybe the added wink and nod spoil it a bit.
I’m taking him at face value, not someone’s memoire recollection.
Serious question: what do you think publicly repudiating Israel would do for the democrats’ chances of willing the presidential election? It makes sense for them to say nothing publicly while privately trying to tie down those loose cannons.
They’ve polled roughly that question. It would increase support among Democrats and Independents, i.e., the people that matter.
Nearly half (47%) of Americans say they would be more likely to support a 2024 presidential candidate who continues to support Israel, while 48% say they would be less likely to support a candidate who does so. These sentiments, however, vary by political affiliation. While at least half of Democrats (56%) and independents (51%) say that continuing to give military aid to Israel would make them less likely to support a presidential candidate, most Republicans (62%) say doing so would make them more likely to support a presidential candidate.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-split-continuing-military-aid-israel
Now poll likely voters. Gen Z and their TikTok propaganda-fueled superficial outrage mean nothing in an election when they don’t bother to vote… and they don’t.
Here are 4 polls, 2 from May and 2 from Nov 2024
Polls:
Quotes
In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withhold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they’d be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they’d be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely.
- New Poll Suggests Gaza Ceasefire and Arms Embargo Would Help Dems with Swing State Voters (Full YouGov Report) (May 2024)
Quotes
- Data For Progress Poll (May 2024)
Quotes
Quotes
Majorities of Democrats (67%) and Independents (55%) believe the US should either end support for Israel’s war effort or make that support conditional on a ceasefire. Only 8% of Democrats but 42% of Republicans think the US must support Israel unconditionally.
Republicans and Independents most often point to immigration as one of Biden’s top foreign policy failures. Democrats most often select the US response to the war in Gaza.
It would guarantee a Trump landslide. Democrats are already being called antisemites.
Yeah this is exactly what people said about Biden dropping out of the race too.
Everyone, including Jon Stewart and Nancy Pelosi, wanted Joe Biden to drop out. We all did. But attacking him was a dumb strategy. Unless of course you’re a histrionic child throwing a tantrum.
Well it seems currently they’re supporting it, and currently they’re also neck and neck with Trump. Doesn’t it strike you as odd that the race is so close despite Trump having dozens of felonies, being so old, and being generally insane?
I think it would help. A lot.
Honestly I suspect it would do the opposite, Lemmy is a bit of a echo chamber and while users here heavily skew towards favoring Palestine in this, or at least condemning what Isreal is and honestly has long been doing to them, the US as a whole, even the base of the democratic party, has long been at least mildly friendly towards Isreal, and a large fraction will see Hamas’s attack as justifying Isreali action. It’s a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation for the dems I think where their current path angers progressives on the left, and actively sanctioning Isreal would probably anger the more center-right side of the party, and they need both to turn out to win. They probably figure that at the end of the day, the left either is mostly younger people that don’t vote as reliably, or will bite their tongues and vote for them, because, well, if you’re given only two possible futures, both evil, and a choice between them, one has a moral obligation to choose the lesser evil, no matter how evil that lesser is, just because by definition, the greater evil is worse. But the center-right, they probably figure, probably don’t care about what is happening as much, and will feel much less uncomfortable about just voting for the republicans instead if the dem candidate doesn’t do what they want.
That being said, it doesn’t really much matter, ethically, if not helping kill tens of thousands of innocent people makes it slightly harder to win political power for yourself, it’s still a pretty horrible excuse. Nobody sitting in a jury would let someone go free if they were accused of being an accomplice to a murder, if that accomplice’s defense was “well, I’m running for mayor, and if I didn’t help the murderer, his friends probably won’t vote for me”. Like I get that Kamala isn’t really calling the shots on that, being only vice president currently, but she doesn’t seem like she intends to change how Biden has handled the situation much.
Don’t get me wrong, I am voting for her, I’m not one of those people that thinks that it is somehow noble to just let the greater evil win if it means not taking an action that helps the lesser evil beat it, I think that the going for the best outcome plausibly available is always the right thing to do and that doing the reverse because “well my hands are clean” is a misguided and self centered way to do ethics, but like damn people (to which I mean the people that actually side with Isreal in this, and the DNC I guess, not they they see my tired internet ranting), just because the other option is as close as the country has come in a century to “literally Hitler” does not mean that you have to emulate Churchill refusing to help the Bengalis.
They figured it’ll cost them more to condemn Israel. And they’re wrong. Progressive voters’ (a demographic that was essential for Biden’s 2020 victory) enthusiasm is in the ditch and Muslim voters are actively abandoning Harris (another essential demographic) and in doing so giving multiple swing states to Republicans. And I repeat: multiple. Michigan isn’t the only one.
That aside, you have to remember that center right democrats don’t care about Israel as much as leftists care about Palestine. Even Democrat voters who would find conditioning aid to Israel objectionable wouldn’t care enough to change their vote on election day, because the people who do care that much are already all republican.
Political power for themselves, sure, but that also means way less power for the Kremlin asset who will do an incredible amount of damage of elected again.
Shit. You’re right.
It would help with a base that doesn’t reliably vote even in countries where they have more political options available to them.
In the population in general more people support Israel than Palestine, especially amongst older electors that actually show up to vote.
He didn’t “say nothing publicly”, and nice try moving the goalpost.
Huh?
what do you think publicly repudiating Israel would do for the democrats’ chances of winning the presidential election?
Would probably improve them. Dramatically so if backed by actions such as stopping all weapons shipments
It makes sense for them to say nothing publicly while privately trying to tie down those loose cannons.
First of all, no. It doesn’t make sense to publicly do the opposite of what a majority of the population, including an overwhelming majority of your own base, wants.
Also, “loose cannons” must be a new fucking record for downplaying 75 years of apartheid rule and an ongoing genocide!
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what a majority of the population, including an overwhelming majority of your own base
Source for this? Polls I’ve seen suggest otherwise, but maybe you have access to data that others don’t.
The genocide is real. Those are words, and 100% more cynical than thoughts and prayers
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So your justification for supporting genocide is that it gives people better opportunities for career advancement? Well, now I’m convinced it’s a good thing.
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That’s true but as long as his political opponent has a more supportive stance on Israel, the Democratic Party knows that there’s a lot more room to support Israel without haemorrhaging too many voters who don’t align with that value.
That is not something I would take as fact. Questionable polling at best, and it’s laughable to say it’s what the American people want when they have no say in the matter. The powers at be will not allow candidates to be critical of Israel…ie the PACs that choose which candidates are on the national ticket. I’m sure if the American people were able to vote on this issue, funding to Israel would cease immediately.
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You’re either trolling or very naive
Just because Biden bitches about Netanyahu in private doesn’t mean he’s not supporting Israel unconditionally.
This comment is so puerile. Joe Biden isn’t a king. Take it up with the vast majority of Americans who have been supporting Israel’s genocide.
2/3rds of America support a ceasefire. This isn’t the will of the majority. Just the will of the rich.
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If he did actually support a ceasefire, he would have enforced it. Israel is America’s proxy. Biden holds the cards here.
They don’t care, they want to get Trump elected.
Biden: “Israel has every right to extend its borders as biblically dictated…”
I actually thought this was something he really said for a second.
I actually thought this was something he really said for a second.
yep, it was said.
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948
On the 6th of February 1948, during a Mapai Party Council, Ben-Gurion responded to a remark from a member of the audience that “we have no land there” [in the hills and mountains west of Jerusalem] by saying: “The war will give us the land. The concepts of “ours” and “not ours” are peace concepts, only, and in war they lose their whole meaning” (Ben-Gurion, War Diary, Vol. 1, entry dated 6 February 1948. p.211)
The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
Biblically or bibi-vocally?
Points gun at someone’s head.“Don’t make me kill you! If I do it’ll be your own fault!”
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/oct/08/israel-iran-live-blog-hezbollah-lebanon-gaza-hamas-war-middle-east-crisis-news-updates?CMP=share_btn_url&page=with%3Ablock-670564528f08f65f2b70021d#block-670564528f08f65f2b70021d
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-guardian/Israeli terroristic threats levied to innocent civilians. Must be a wednesday.
That’s a tad bit difficult since Hezbollah military rivals that of the Lebanese government. This is pretty much an impossible request and him saying that he’s going to cause Lebanon “destruction and suffering”
A yes, the classic “start a war with the people we don’t like or we will start the war for you”. Truly sympathetic shit.
This motherfucker’s threats sound like they came from fictional villains with bad writers, and yet, American politicians can hear him say this and still believe it’s totally normal and good to continue funding Israel’s unhinged war crimes and genocide.
I can’t support this. It’s like America’s little putin.
We have first genocide, yes, but what about second genocide?
It’s looking like the Oprah meme. “You get a genocide, and you get a genocide, and you get a genocide”
I simply can not comprehend how any politicians defend Israel and don’t have their reputation in tatters.
I think the same. Not sure what to do about it though. If our choices in this “democracy” are a criminal who wants to murder us all and end our democracy (Trump) or a political party that openly supports genocide (Harris), then its time for our system to find some third solution than voting for one of these two. Its hard to figure out how to do that though. We’re all absolutely being played, both dem and republican-- and they arent even doing a compelling job lying to us. Its an extra insult-cherry on top.
I’m from the UK and we have pretty wank choices. Last election it was pro Israel vs pro Israel. Unfortunately politics is like a bus, and you gotta ride the one heading closest to your direction. We basically were heading for Labour landslide so in some seats, people could choose another option.
In presidential elections, its a little diferrent. Trump absolutely would give unquestionably. He did this with recognising Jerusalem wholly as Israel capital. I’m not defending Dems, they’re shit. Joe has been poor on this. Kamala, we don’t know too well. We do know if she wants to be elected, she cannot outright say anything or AIPAC will throw everything against her.
First Past the Post sucks as an electoral system. Sometimes it’s about building support for the good forces in the lesser elections (state etc to apply pressure). The moment it looks like their power is about to go, they rethink their positions.
Wonder when he will attack Poland
Small Hitler can’t get enough.
The only way this possibility ends in peace is an airstrike resulting in Netanyahu’s death, which is rather unlikely
he’ll have to get his piss baby troops into Lebanon first. How’s that limited military operation going sir?
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Dont forget the purposeful murder of every journalist and aid worker they can find, very explicit and purposeful starving of a civilian population, and their attempts to frame the UN as a terrorist organization.
Notice that the schools, hospitals, residential blocks, etc in Lebanon are attacked without even a modicum of pretense. The justifications for bombing hospitals last year were clearly half-assed and false, but now they don’t even bother to give them.
So then dont couse the destruction…?
