It saddens me to see you being downvoted by the Wayland evangelists when it is CLEARLY not a (EDIT: feature complete) replacement for X11 yet. If I could upvote you twice, I would.
I’ll never make the claim that X11 is perfect, but my use case requires features that are either not built into Wayland yet or simply won’t be built into it in the future.
I’m sure it’s a fine product, but asking me to change my workflow to use it is a non-starter. When it reaches feature complete support of X11 functionality, I’ll consider changing.
Like I said, I use Linux in my classroom, and I heavily use global shortcut keys set via script for individual lessons, with fullscreen opening of applications that don’t have automatic support and shortcut key based window switching all without mouse input to create a seamless presentation for my students.
Global shortcuts and wmctrl, which form the critical backbones of this system, simply don’t work in Wayland.
And to suggest it’s just a perfect transition is wrong. I don’t use Steam Link, but if I did? Doesn’t work in Wayland. Everyone constantly bemoans that applications should be rewritten for Wayland, but one of Linux’s advantages is eternal backwards compatibility so software can actually be FINISHED.
Wayland isn’t the kernel and it shouldn’t be held to the standard of the Linux kernel, but do you remember when Linus Torvalds publicly screamed at and berated a developer for a change to the kernel that broke a userspace application and then having the sheer GALL to suggest the application developer was at fault? Wayland evangelists could stand to be a little more understanding that people don’t like it when you break functional userspace applications, force developers to work on stuff that is FINISHED to get it working again, and then blame them for not getting on board with your changes. You know who does that? Google.
Look, Wayland works for you and that’s fantastic. Use whatever you like. Linux is Linux and one of the most beautiful points of Linux is freedom of choice. What I take exception to is the people in this thread who are acting like anybody who isn’t on Wayland is crazy and insisting there’s no good reason to still be on X11 just because they personally don’t understand why someone would need features they need. Anyone expounding that “Wayland is a 1 to 1 replacement for X11 and superior in every way!” is either being intentionally disingenous or a cultist. You know who insists users are wrong for having their own use cases and workflow and wants them to change to their preferred system because THEY don’t think the other use cases matter? Microsoft.
I’ll be happy to make the switch to Wayland… when I do a system install or update and it happens invisibly and I don’t suddenly have to wonder why all of my custom scripts no longer work.
Xwayland should work basically forever, so there’s no reason to rewrite anything. In time those features will get implemented, but I’m guessing you will need to change the scripts to use something other than wmctrl unless that particular program gets updated
I appreciate the information, and I’m willing to give it a shot again when I next need to do a distro switch or a new installation, but until now my experiences with Wayland have basically been a stream of broken things over several days as I try to reestablish my workflow in a new desktop environment. The time it all goes successfully is the time I’ll be sold.
It’s not that I have issues - it works just fine in the domain it’s designed for. It’s that the Wayland system does not provide feature parity with X11. I make extensive use of window manipulation using xdotool and wmctrl for my daily use case, and those are both unsupported on Wayland. It’s a fine system for users whose use case fit with its design. It is not a feature complete replacement for X11.
That’s a fair point, and it’s the Waydroid team’s unquestioned right to use whatever technologies they want to build their software on.
But just throwing it out as a solution to a general Linux question when there’s a VERY good chance it’s incompatible with major distros is omitting critical information.
Thankfully nested compositor, while not perfect, work really well for most use cases.
You won’t get native multi-window support, because I don’t think there are any nested compositors that work like that. There was a project in the past, but I’m pretty sure it’s dead now. However, if you looking for something like a blue stack, it’s alternative where you’re only trying to play one game at a time, then waydroid with a nested compositor will work fine.
I apologize for the rock writing. I’m using speech 2 text.
Just off the top of my head, Linux Mint, which I know because Waydroid is incompatible with the machines I use in my classrooms. Even if it were compatible, unless the lack of global hotkeys has been addressed changing is a non-starter.
Global hotkeys have been addressed on KDE, but no applications actually support it — one of the reasons being that no other desktops support it. Typical chicken-egg problem.
linux mint(cinnamon stable ,experimental has some wayland support),mx linux(non kde version but am pretty sure kde 5.27 doesnt have wayland out of the box if they follow debian stable release cycle),antix,debian is what i can get from my head
Major, MAJOR caveat here.
True considering 90% of linux desktops are still x11 only outside of kde and gnome (they use x11 as fallback)
So, 90% of Linux users are using Wayland already?
No I mean 90% of desktops support x11 not users
It saddens me to see you being downvoted by the Wayland evangelists when it is CLEARLY not a (EDIT: feature complete) replacement for X11 yet. If I could upvote you twice, I would.
If only x11 worked well in the first place. But its many flaws are never going to addressed because the developers only work on Wayland
I’ll never make the claim that X11 is perfect, but my use case requires features that are either not built into Wayland yet or simply won’t be built into it in the future.
I’m sure it’s a fine product, but asking me to change my workflow to use it is a non-starter. When it reaches feature complete support of X11 functionality, I’ll consider changing.
What is the use case that doesn’t work for you? Mine was Nvidia and now it’s working on gnome at least
Like I said, I use Linux in my classroom, and I heavily use global shortcut keys set via script for individual lessons, with fullscreen opening of applications that don’t have automatic support and shortcut key based window switching all without mouse input to create a seamless presentation for my students.
Global shortcuts and wmctrl, which form the critical backbones of this system, simply don’t work in Wayland.
And to suggest it’s just a perfect transition is wrong. I don’t use Steam Link, but if I did? Doesn’t work in Wayland. Everyone constantly bemoans that applications should be rewritten for Wayland, but one of Linux’s advantages is eternal backwards compatibility so software can actually be FINISHED.
Wayland isn’t the kernel and it shouldn’t be held to the standard of the Linux kernel, but do you remember when Linus Torvalds publicly screamed at and berated a developer for a change to the kernel that broke a userspace application and then having the sheer GALL to suggest the application developer was at fault? Wayland evangelists could stand to be a little more understanding that people don’t like it when you break functional userspace applications, force developers to work on stuff that is FINISHED to get it working again, and then blame them for not getting on board with your changes. You know who does that? Google.
Look, Wayland works for you and that’s fantastic. Use whatever you like. Linux is Linux and one of the most beautiful points of Linux is freedom of choice. What I take exception to is the people in this thread who are acting like anybody who isn’t on Wayland is crazy and insisting there’s no good reason to still be on X11 just because they personally don’t understand why someone would need features they need. Anyone expounding that “Wayland is a 1 to 1 replacement for X11 and superior in every way!” is either being intentionally disingenous or a cultist. You know who insists users are wrong for having their own use cases and workflow and wants them to change to their preferred system because THEY don’t think the other use cases matter? Microsoft.
I’ll be happy to make the switch to Wayland… when I do a system install or update and it happens invisibly and I don’t suddenly have to wonder why all of my custom scripts no longer work.
Xwayland should work basically forever, so there’s no reason to rewrite anything. In time those features will get implemented, but I’m guessing you will need to change the scripts to use something other than
wmctrlunless that particular program gets updatedI appreciate the information, and I’m willing to give it a shot again when I next need to do a distro switch or a new installation, but until now my experiences with Wayland have basically been a stream of broken things over several days as I try to reestablish my workflow in a new desktop environment. The time it all goes successfully is the time I’ll be sold.
what issues are you having on wayland? I run nvidia+intel and it’s completely fine (way faster on old machines too)
It’s not that I have issues - it works just fine in the domain it’s designed for. It’s that the Wayland system does not provide feature parity with X11. I make extensive use of window manipulation using xdotool and wmctrl for my daily use case, and those are both unsupported on Wayland. It’s a fine system for users whose use case fit with its design. It is not a feature complete replacement for X11.
No issues at all ngl I wish all the lightweight desktops supported it :(
ig support is a big issue but I use sway on old computers and it runs really smooth
I get that you might want to stick to your favorite desktop though
i am saying lxqt and jwm and stuff like that lxqt has some experimental wayland support but jwm doesn’t but its possible for them to add it.
@mycodesucks @Mwa Wayland is so stable what r u talking about
No issues at all ngl I wish all the lightweight desktops supported it :(
It’s in the name
That’s a fair point, and it’s the Waydroid team’s unquestioned right to use whatever technologies they want to build their software on.
But just throwing it out as a solution to a general Linux question when there’s a VERY good chance it’s incompatible with major distros is omitting critical information.
Thankfully nested compositor, while not perfect, work really well for most use cases.
You won’t get native multi-window support, because I don’t think there are any nested compositors that work like that. There was a project in the past, but I’m pretty sure it’s dead now. However, if you looking for something like a blue stack, it’s alternative where you’re only trying to play one game at a time, then waydroid with a nested compositor will work fine.
I apologize for the rock writing. I’m using speech 2 text.
I’m on pop, with a working wayland for quite some time now. Excuse me fon being out of the loop, but what major distros don’t have wayland support?
Just off the top of my head, Linux Mint, which I know because Waydroid is incompatible with the machines I use in my classrooms. Even if it were compatible, unless the lack of global hotkeys has been addressed changing is a non-starter.
Is global hotkey like push to talk in an app working when another is app is focussed?
Global hotkeys have been addressed on KDE, but no applications actually support it — one of the reasons being that no other desktops support it. Typical chicken-egg problem.
linux mint(cinnamon stable ,experimental has some wayland support),mx linux(non kde version but am pretty sure kde 5.27 doesnt have wayland out of the box if they follow debian stable release cycle),antix,debian is what i can get from my head