Summary
Gender bias played a significant role in Kamala Harris’s defeat, with many voters—often women—expressing doubts about whether “America is ready for a female president.”
Some said they “couldn’t see her in the chair,” or questioned if a woman could lead, with one even remarking, “you don’t see women building skyscrapers.” Though some voters were open to persuasion, this often became a red line.
Oliver Hall, a Harris campaign volunteer, found that economic concerns, particularly inflation, also drove voters to Donald Trump, despite low unemployment and wage growth touted by Democrats.
Harris was viewed in conflicting ways, seen as both too tough and too lenient on crime, as well as ineffective yet overly tied to Biden’s administration.
Ultimately, Hall believes that Trump’s unique appeal and influence overshadowed Harris’s campaign efforts.
That’s a generous way of saying “Most Americans are overly sexist and/or racist and are willing to make up any reason to not vote for a woman of color despite any evidence to the contrary”
Just at the shop work at most citizens make below $15 an hour even trades jobs
Not just any fucking reason
Most US citizens are struggling with overpriced housing, sky high taxes, ginourmous energy costs, inflatated food costs, and all on below living wages
Fuck the Democrats and the Republicans both for exploiting the citizens
I’m glad the enlightened centrist take is always here to offer the right answers.
Just see the US underneath on the daily when on the job
The real US that is hidden beneath all the media sprinkles and the propaganda icing
Gets worse every election no matter which “party” “wins”
One party gets into power and throws shit everywhere. The other party gets into power and cleans as much shit as they can, but it’s on the ceiling and seeping into the walls. They never get all of it. Often they only get a small amount of it. It’s never the shit thrower’s fault though. Both parties are covered in shit.
Welp it’s about to get a WHOLE LOT worse. America is finished. Experiment over.
You may find it an absurd opinion, but I’d say it’s exactly why the Democrats can’t help but grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
They’re simply bad at showing off the good that they do and they spend their campaign time courting some mythical moderate Republican voting base that wouldn’t vote for them anyway by moving further and further right, disenfranchising their voting base. Who they then blame for their loss. Leftists don’t like voting for the lesser of two evils and vote with their heart, while Republicans vote for the nominee, regardless of their positions or values. And the stats show that the Democrats failed to motivate people to get out and vote. Trump actually lost 2 million votes compared to 2020. If there’s still elections in 2028, we’ll see a resurgence in votes for the Democrat candidate after 4 more years of this monstrosity, but people have forgotten just how bad it really was.
The economy does better under Democratic presidents. That’s a verifiable fact. Biden added 500,000 jobs to the economy and brought inflation down, started student loan forgiveness programs, and all kinds of other things. But the Dems didn’t talk about that, and the media sure as hell wasn’t when going to when they could blast Trump’s absurd claims instead. And when we did hear about it, it was through the lens of the economy as a whole, not what you average American experiences day to day. Inflation is down, but prices aren’t, and wages haven’t kept up in decades. According to the IRS, 51% of Americans made $15k or less in 2021.
So when Trump says he’s gonna change things, and Harris looks like it’s gonna be more of the same (no matter how much hogwash Trump’s claims are and things are only going to get worse), it’s gonna do nothing to alleviate the grievances leftists have had with the Biden administration on all sorts of things like the genocide in Palestine. They’ve heard the “vote for me or it’s the end of democracy!” song and dance too many times while seemingly getting nothing out of it.
They’re simply bad at showing off the good that they do
pardon me, but I think this is an extremely bad take. because the two things that were glaringly obvious to me over the last 8 years have been
- the total whitewash, sanewashing, and normalization of trump in every aspect by major legacy media and
- the total ignorance of any democratic accomplishment by that same media.
it is extremely hard for a party to proclaim their good things when the people who have the most exposure to the public outright refuse to tell people about it. pundits have complained bitterly about the democrats communication problem on network tv but never seem to question those same tv networks why they won’t talk about what the democrats just did. and when democrats appear on those same shows and bring up their accomplishments themselves the hosts are completely disinterested in the topic and don’t allow the democrat to expound further on their accomplishments.
this country has a severely unbalanced media coverage and bias issue that no one wants to talk about because it exposes how much the media has been bought and bullied by the right wing. for at least 40 years it’s just accepted that what a republican says goes unchallenged while the democrat gets no positive press whatsoever. acceptance of the false “liberal media” trope is baked in and simply taken as fact. it’s no wonder why the news is distrusted and no one pays it any attention anymore.
CBS morning news would always start off with a Trump droning sound bite EVERY FUCKING DAY. And then maybe a 3rd of the time they would play a Harris clip, but always after the mandatory Trump sound bite clip. Even though their viewers did not want to hear Trump.
I agree, the media has an absurd right-wing bias. You need simply look at the view ratios between the posts of right-wing and left-wing politicians to see how leftist messages are filtered out. And that’s not even getting into stuff like the company that bought up something like 500 local news channels after 9/11 with the sole intent of running more anti-Muslim broadcasts.
But even beyond that, when you look at the Democrats during the campaign, it’s all maintaining the status quo rhetoric or shifting away from what their base wants to court the nonexistent moderate Republican, not showing how they’ve moved towards what their voting base wants.
Dems and Reps are both corporatists (though you could argue Reps are moving towards some neo-feudalism) neither is willing to severely curtail the big money interests. I think you’re right that people are genuinely hurting and anxious. People are also probably sexist and racist. Harris had a hell of a lot of disadvantages to overcome in the president’s race and she didn’t.
Mostly though, reality doesn’t matter anymore for probably a supermajority because people are so checked out. Just vibes - and the vibes are bad
Dems and Reps are both corporatists
Here’s why we know this is bullshit. Reps keeping cutting corporate taxes. Biden raised corporate taxes. Harris was going to raise them more.
Saying someone is a ‘corporatist’ is a meaningless generality. Focusing on tax rates always provides crystal clarity on whether the label is real or not. Cutting their taxes is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd top priority of corporations. If they cannot get a politician to do that, they don’t control that politician.
Persuadable voters seemed really focused on prices. It’s hard not to be condescending here. Eggs are expensive because of bird flu. Rent is high because not enough housing is being built, mostly limited by local issues. Gas is high because of Putin’s war. Anyone who thinks electing Trump will bring those prices down because they were lower last time he was president is fucking clueless.
I’m interested to see how much of a factor unenthusiastic Democrats were. Trump got about the same number of votes he did in 2020, but Harris got far fewer than Biden. It looks like a bunch of people who voted last time didn’t vote this time. For them, the concerns the author dismisses might have been more important.
I’ve talked to a lot of people, and I never once heard anyone complain about her gender. In fact, I was rather surprised that I didn’t hear anything about that. It was 100% complaints about the economy, and no matter how I tried my best to explain how not only are the price of things not Biden’s fault, but we would have been much worse without Biden, it was like talking to a brick wall.
I believe that there were a fair number of people who just couldn’t check the box for any woman, but we’re too afraid to admit it publically (or even to themselves). While their complaints about the economy were legit, they might have also been a convenient excuse to hide the misogyny.
And didn’t Obama confront this head-on? He told Black men “Look, you may not be inclined to back the woman here, but backing that man in particular would be a disaster”. And he was dismissed by many as lecturing too much.
I highly doubt he people who couldn’t check the box for a woman were part of the 10 million who showed up for Biden but not Harris. People made it perfectly clear what would get them to show up, and instead of listening she spit in their faces… Anyone who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for a woman was almost certainly a Trump voter start to finish
but we’re too afraid to admit it publically
we’re???
/s
Haha, that was a typo, but I’m leaving it anyway, it’s fitting
looks like a bunch of people who voted last time didn’t vote this time. For them, the concerns the author dismisses might have been more important.
We also made it decidedly less convenient by making mail voting more difficult, and then the media kept blasting a “going out to vote might get you assaulted by Trump supporters” narrative that frightened people.
I’m fortunate to be well off, but I used to be below the poverty line in my city and qualified for social assistance (which I didn’t know about until a coworker told me). Having been in most of these voters shoes a little over a decade ago, I can tell you that don’t care about trumps rhetoric, he can stand there for an hour blathering non sense, but at the end of it he will say “I love you, I know you are hurting and I’m going to fix that”.
Then a long come the democrats telling these people who are living paycheck to paycheck or still in their parents house that they are privileged racist ass holes who could never understand what is like to struggle as a rich minority woman from California. Then the most unrelatable person in the world gets chosen to replace Joe Biden and rich democrats and dumb ass celebrities like Cardi “I brag about how I used to drug, rape, and Rob men” B start telling working class men that they are stupid and racist if they don’t vote for Kamala.
A lot of people couldn’t vote for a wannabe dictator, but they also couldn’t vote for someone who despises their very being.
a rich minority woman from California.
She worked at McDonald’s growing up. Trump was the rich guy. Anybody not liking Harris because they thought she was “rich” was an idiot. She likely has far less net worth than most presidential candidates do.
Yep, never denied Trump was rich. Only problem is people believe he actually earned his wealth.
Also, I worked 3 separate manual labor jobs to make ends meet until I was able to graduate from college, yet I am now called a rich privileged white male. Dems want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to labels.
This is an incredibly important statement. You’ve perfectly summarized exactly how non-Harris voters felt. The opinions you share in here may or may not be true and the Lemmy population certainly doesn’t like hearing it, but this was the thought process that brought trump to office.
Frankly, the way to save America is to attack corporations. Regulate, regulate, regulate, put money back in the hands of the voters. Whoever does this has the vote.
Don’t even have to actually do it… Trump sure as hell won’t… Just have to say it
You’re right. Americans as a whole are more stupid and racist than was previously thought.
It’s true but not for the reasons we may default to believing. That they’re just stupid, bad people who hate because they don’t know better.
Multiple times, I was told that Harris was a “communist”, “clueless” and that she had “thrown black men in jail for carrying one blunt”. One Latin American voter told me at length that she had “seen it all before in South America”.
Those are all verbatim quotes from Fox News, redstate, talk radio, the massive ocean of right-wing bullshit that these fuckers dunk themselves in daily.
We’re losing to this garbage propaganda because we don’t invest in and understand media. As a nation, we don’t understand it at all.
It’s really that simple.
Resisting garbage propaganda requires effort, and when that garbage propaganda is being sprayed at you through a firehose, not everyone has the resolve required to resist it.
Lies and liars don’t have to defend themselves, because the message they send does not depend on being true.
Absolutely true.
Removed by mod
No, Trump voters are EXACTLY as stupid and racist as was previously thought… The mistake was thinking anyone was going to change their minds by meeting them in the middle, and thinking they could do so in a short amount of time without understanding how to really use social media propaganda (just bullying everyone while ignoring their legitimate demands was not a good strategy) shows how stupid the Dems are as a party
That is a completely accurate depiction of what every member and supporter of the Democratic party has said, which has certainly been much more hurtful than Republicans’ repeated threats to rape and kill us /s
I haven’t heard of any republican threat to raise and kill everyone, but a lot are unhinged and I’m sure it happens. But it’s not a central platform of the Republicans, while being condescending of working class men is a central campaign point of the democrats, in fact it was so bad that black and Hispanic men showed up in record numbers to vote for Trump
I mean, no offense but the fact that you haven’t heard this just might mean you’re deep inside an echo chamber. It’s hard to have an exact measure of these thing, but Republican threats and celebrations of violence and sexual assault are at least as central to their party’s platform as being opposed to bigotry is to the Democrats party’s from where I’m sitting.
And I’m not sure why you think being opposed to bigotry is an attack on working class men. Like, if we want to talk about the working class and poor people, let’s talk about the fact that transgender people are more likely than the average American to be living in poverty because of the discrimination they fave.
I will say that’s an easy to miss fact because society in general doesn’t like to platform working class people because they’re not as eloquent or pretty and the Dems tend to behave the same way, so we hear more about wealthy celebrity members of queer communities and other marginalized groups. At the end of the day, tho, if you do really care about the working class you need to care about transphobic discrimination (among all the other kinds of discrimination) too, because it is absolutely a tool the capitalist class wields to keep us divided and oppressed.
I think the difference is Trump punches up, and Dems punch down. It’s just that the folks on the bottom are more sensitive to it than folks on the top, so it translates into who they support.
Edit: Ten gazillion dollars says the downvoters have lambasted Trump supporters for being [insert epithet here] without even blinking. Meanwhile Trump bashes politicians, Hollywood, elites, Ivory Tower, DoJ, etc. It’s so incredibly obvious.
I don’t see how you could possibly see his attacks on migrants, trans kids, etc. as anything other than punching down.
Also, why are you holding the Democratic party accountable for down voters here or other randos online who say stuff about Trump supporters? They’re pretty distinct groups, and the fact is elected Dems bent over backwards to talk as nicely about Trump supporters as they could.
And I actually think that was a big part of what I think their real voter engagement problem was, which is that everything Dems say comes off like inauthentic over polished political bullshit to a lot of voters. I think simultaneously trying to say “Trump is an existential threat to democracy” and “Trump supporters are not garbage” sounds insane (like, if you’re supporting an existential threat to democracy you just inarguably are a garbage human being, sorry not sorry).
I don’t think we should make it a centerpiece of our message or waste a bunch of time on it, but if we get a direct question about Republican party supporters we have to respect our potential voters enough to say “Yes, they are garbage, roughly 35-40% of this country are bad people who are willing to hurt others to get what they want and that’s why it’s so important for the rest of us to put aside our difference and work together to stop them.”
I don’t see how you could possibly see his attacks on migrants, trans kids, etc. as anything other than punching down.
He’s “protecting” kids and “protecting” legal immigrants. Not saying I agree with them, but it’s 100% how disinfected working class parents and legal immigrants see it. “He’s not talking about us.”
Also, why are you holding the Democratic party accountable for down voters here or other randos online who say stuff about Trump supporters?
You mean like “deplorables” and “garbage?”
If you don’t see the entire liberal order referring to marginalized working class Trump supporters as…
- inbred
- racist
- illiterate
- stupid
- voting against their own self-interest
- ignorant
- morons
- hillbillies
- rednecks
- backwoods
- mouth breathers
…repeatedly through multiple societal megaphones, then you’re not listening carefully enough. Whether the party takes ownership of that snobbery or not is irrelevant to the fact that “the left” repeatedly and relentlessly punches down.
Yes, they are garbage, roughly 35-40% of this country are bad people who are willing to hurt others to get what they want and that’s why it’s so important for the rest of us to put aside our difference and work together to stop them.”
How’s that message working out for us?
It’s definitely true that white collar, urban liberals sometimes punch down at rural, blue collar white people. It does hurt them politically.
I’m having trouble seeing anything Trump says about anyone other than high-level elected officials as punching up though. Attacks on the sitting president are punching up by definition, but the challenger always does that.
It seems more to me that he’s telling people who don’t feel good about their position in society that there’s someone below them. That was the message of slavery, of apartheid, and of Hitler. I find it hard not to condemn those who were receptive to it.
Do you know any Trump supporters? I mean that sincerely. Because I do, and no, they’re not telling them someone is below them. They’re telling them there’s someone above them who’s keeping them down. It doesn’t help that the new dividing line between R and D is a college education. There are a bunch of rich, racist Trump supporters, to be sure, but blue collar workers without a degree are, on average, not going to be as well off as a college educated liberal.
I find it hard not to condemn those who were receptive to it.
Do you think that’s how you’ll win back their support?
She was a lackluster candidate, yet clearly the only reasonable choice. The problem is that the electorate is full of fuckbrains. Any fucking excuse would do - black, woman, price of eggs, whatever. Everything’s about to spiral the fuck outta control (let’s see what egg prices are gonna be like after tariffs n shit). Bitches wanted this in place of having a lackluster, mediocre, caretaker president. Alright. Play ball, bitches.
Biden sucks, Harris sucks, Pelosi sucks, Sanders sucks. The circular firing squad continues. Foolish
I really don’t think that sexism was the leading cause of her loss, or even one of the top causes.
She alienated a sizable voter group in a swing state, and people who are struggling to buy groceries are not going to vote for a person who is literally in the second highest executive position in the ruling party, unless they make changes people can see, and have a good campaign on change. When I heard harris give speeches I always thought “well, you have a direct ear to the president and are one of the highest ranking democrats in the US. Why don’t you use this to make change now?
When I heard harris give speeches I always thought “well, you have a direct ear to the president and are one of the highest ranking democrats in the US. Why don’t you use this to make change now?
Well said!
Read the article everyone. This summary starting with gender bias is kind of bad. The main issue was the economy at the top.
This again is why I have so little faith now. The economy is such a cut and dry thing. Inflation went up in april after biden took office and obviously did not come from his actions when he had barely started. Inflation was largely tamed by increasing interest rates and looking at the fed rates from obama onward you can see where they dropped under trump and my satan I can’t believe folks don’t remember trump bully pulpitting the fed to drop them. he was whining insistently about them ruing his economy (which given his deep state rhetoric we know what he was implying). oh man then I would get folks with the inflation is caused by xyz. yeah its caused by a lot of things but the main way a president (really the fed) effects them in the short term (short term being years) is with the interest rate and we have a very direct example in the last few years. The idea that trump is the better choice for the economy is so friggin ridiculous.
The economy concern is straight up the issue, but the twist is that it has to be the economy as seen by people who don’t understand or don’t care about macro economics. GDP, inflation suppression, and all the other measures Biden did to help the economy wasn’t helping families buy groceries. And you can forget that trip to Disneyland. Buying power was still fucked. Now the carryover of those measures combined with the long-term bad but short term positive jolts of the next trump administration is going to increase buying power for just long enough for Donnie boy to take credit.
If you find yourself with extra money in the next 4 years, remember it’s borrowed against your future. Better to save it, or heavily reduce your debts than to get that new car it take that family trip.
“Wages may well be rising at all levels, but everyday inflation was more discernible to voters.”
Your wages only rise if you change jobs. If you aren’t willing, or able to change jobs, your wage increase (if you get one AT ALL) is not beating inflation.
Maybe in a world where unions don’t exist (so give it a year or two)… But no, that’s absurd.
What are you talking about? Unions work great in some countries, so don’t drag the whole world into your issues with it.
Eh, did you misread what he said?
Union representation is a fraction of what it used to be… or needs to be.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/01/24/labor-union-membership-by-year/72329342007/
"the rate of union members is the lowest in decades at 10%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
A combination of labor laws unfavorable to unions and an uptick in corporate-backed union suppression tactics are two insights as to why union membership is so low in the 21st century.
In the 1950s, 1 in 3 workers were represented by a union. Now it’s closer to 1 in 10."
Because she was a seventh-choice candidate?
Harris lost because she thought ultra restrictive border policies and handing out home mortgages was going to persuade voterers
I think both things play a factor, but ditching shitty policies and messaging would be a lot more straightforward process than reducing the number of raging misogynists in America
Oliver Hall, a Harris campaign volunteer, found that economic concerns, particularly inflation, also drove voters to Donald Trump, despite low unemployment and wage growth touted by Democrats.
This. This right here is the issue.
According to the studies done by the Federal Reserve, only 54% of Americans have enough savings to cover 3 months of expenses. That means nearly half the country is basically living paycheck to paycheck.
Dems say wages are on the rise? So is the price of food, with some items still 50% more expensive than they were at the start of the pandemic (and now in even smaller packages to boot). Many Americans are also still stuck working a laughably low federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. Why should they care about wage hikes when they haven’t gotten a raise since 2009? Meanwhile a large portion of the working class is in food service where the base rate is even lower and they have scrape by on tips — tips that are harder and harder to come by as fewer and fewer Americans are choosing to eat out.
Dems say unemployment is falling? Of course it is, when many Americans have no choice but to work multiple jobs just to make rent. And speaking of rent, it’s up a average of 30% which is even higher than the supposed ~25% wage growth Dems were running on.
If someone is living hand-to-mouth, struggling to keep a roof over their head and food in their stomach, the last thing they wanna hear about is fucking GDP or employment rates or the stock market. Millions of Americans are getting screwed by the economy, and when Democrats run on a message of prosperity, that spits in the face of their lived experiences. Meanwhile Trump tells them that the system is rigged and they’re getting screwed. He points the finger at all the wrong things, of course, but at least he acknowledges that things suck, even if all his proposed “solutions” are all empty demagoguery.
Stop telling working Americans how great the economy is and start telling them what they want to hear, what they know in their bones is true: The system is rigged against you. The ownership class has spent the last 3 decades gleefully stealing our wages, raping the environment, and padding the pockets of politicians so that we all stay divided and distracted. Stop running for the economy and start running against it. Run against robber barons and union busters like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk. Run against the Kochs and the Waltons who’ve been fighting for decades to keep wages low and the keep the pockets of rich politicians full with hundreds of millions in PAC money. Run against Comcast, run against Starbucks, run against fucking Nestle.
And while you’re at it, stop taking economic policy advice from capitalist assholes like Mark Cuban. Stop flaunting all your celebrity endorsements — more rich people who understand absolutely nothing about the day to day lives of working Americans. And for the love of God… please, please stop running to the right at every opportunity you get.
So basically be Bernie Sanders…who they abandoned.
Pretty much, yeah
Author gave many reasons I saw on social media, especially the top ones she mentioned like economy concerns or that she is a communist which are the opposite of reality.
She concentrated on what people are saying instead of why.
We are living in a world where huge part of population abandoned traditional news such as TV, newspapers and is getting their vote about the world via social media through memes and influencers.
The biggest problem with it is that this unlike traditional media is open to foreign interference. We had report of American bloggers being paid by Kremlin ridiculous amount of money, we have evidence of bots being used to persuade public opinion, astroturfing groups on Facebook and other social media that were traced to Russia.
And we still did nothing to stop it.
Half of America lives in a different reality. And it isn’t just America but those efforts are happening also in Europe and other Western countries.
Is this low unemployment and wage growth in the room with us?
Unemployment is “low” because shitty gig economy jobs are counted as employment. And wages might be growing, but are lagging far behind inflation.
The majority of Americans aren’t sexist and racist, they are living paycheck to paycheck and some unlikable rich black woman from San Francisco isn’t going to be able to relate to a poor white man from Nebraska or even a Hispanic dude from El Paso. And you would think “neither should a rich ass hole from NYC”, but he at least pretends to care about them. Democrats have been demonizing the working class for over a decade and they are starting to reap what they sow.
I voted for Kamala, but she was a terrible candidate. She made no attempt to empathize with the plight of the majority of the working class voting base and instead was more worried about capturing the vote of rich trust fund babies that are being misgendered.
Unemployment is “low” because shitty gig economy jobs are counted as employment. And wages might be growing, but are lagging far behind inflation.
As soon as Trump takes office, the nuance you’re evaluating these numbers with will be lost. I’ve lived this thing before, Trump may use economic conditions to his benefit rhetorically and may even disagree with the numbers while he’s out of power, but the instant he’s in the same numbers will automatically signal to him and his cult of supporters that everything is great and people should stop complaining.
Correct, there is zero chance of ever getting through to these 75 million people… But there was a very good chance of getting through to the 10 million who stayed home but had voted last time, and at least some chance of getting through to the 50% who regularly don’t vote… But the Dems never go after those people, they continue to insist on wasting everyone’s time by only going after the imbeciles with actual policy changes (they go after the 10 million with bullying and fear mongering, which clearly doesn’t work)
Maybe and maybe not. Maybe I actually don’t give a fuck because all of this “but they didn’t actually improve main street” online shit also disappears during Republican administrations. I’ve been through multiple cycles of this shit and the people whining about the dnc online are just another level in Dante’s Inferno.
We get it, you guys love Bernie and think Bernie would’ve won everything. Carry that energy forward for another decade if you don’t wind up in a Trump camp first.
Bernie and AOC have been advocating for Americans to build a movement to get progressive policies passed by building from the bottom up, but instead everything is the mean old dnc’s fault despite the fact that there is no movement, no community, and so all you’re left with is career politicians trying to form an alliance out of everyone that doesn’t want to vote fascism. There’s a reason Democrats can’t run a coherent campaign, they don’t have a fucking coherent constituency.
They absolutely don’t have a coherent constituency, that’s for sure, but they certainly could have a large enough constituency to put Trump and his entire army of ignorance and sleeze to bed once and for all, but they only cater to a very small segment of what could be their constituency, and for many of the people who could be their constituency it often feels like they’re actually catering to the enemy rather than to them.
That’s exactly my point. To appease one section of their potential voters they have to piss off others. We can second guess them on which decisions would’ve led to a victory, but the fact remains that they come across as incoherent and inauthentic because they have to walk a tightrope to keep together an imaginary coalition between things like American Jews who support Israel and Palestinian immigrants. They fail because they aren’t representing a coherent set of people. They’re representing sometimes conflicting ideas. American atheists and Catholics. Muslims, some of whom believe that women should be subservient, and “childless cat ladies”. People in this country are overall much more regressive socially than online progressives want to admit.
When it comes to the conflicting ideas they need to pick a side. And the other side has to decide whether to show up or not, we know which side always shows up, maybe they should take a backseat for a bit, they’ll show up anyway.
Like if you think women should be subservient, you’re not on our side. If you are okay with arming a terrorist nation to carry out genocide you’re not on our side. Easy peasy ones.
I think we’re actually finally at a truly 50/50ish ratio of regressive to progressive in the US… That’s why things are so tense between the progressive actual left and the regressive “left” DNC. Yeah there’s still misogynistic bigoted people here, but definitely way fewer than 100 years ago. And they should ALL be on the other team.
I think for a lot of people the choice ended up being between a quick leap into fascism or the ongoing painfully slow fascism temperature being risen one degree to keep the other guy from blowing it to 100, and I think more people than I’d have hoped decided to let the bandaid be ripped off
Less people than you think thought that was the choice. Americans are big time ignorant of politics and even on this site we had people asking if this was a normal election.
According to those who voted, this election was about the economy. 🙄
Most people probably couldn’t tell you the first thing about fascism or even capitalism.
I wouldn’t say 5 million people thinking this way would be out of the question though… Would you? And are they polling the people who voted for Biden but didn’t show up this time? Because that data would be wildly valuable
It really wouldn’t shock me if a lot of the loss could be attributed to the fact that they couldn’t mail it in from the couch as easily this go around. I also think that people in this country are not as progressive socially as some of the most ardent people online like to pretend. Some simply didn’t want to vote for a woman…which is part of what the article says.
I think the movement is there, it’s just kinda in the back of most people’s minds because no one is leading them effectively… Which I get, Bernie and AOC are obviously too busy to also be organizing a movement completely dependent on small donations and somehow figuring out how to use those to get the word out through the torrential downpour of bullshit we experience everywhere, but I wish they would choose leadership for that movement that can lead more effectively
I think the movement is there, it’s just kinda in the back of most people’s minds because no one is leading them effectively…
Are you suggesting this movement only exists in people’s minds? I think I’d agree.
A couple of national pseudo celebrity politicians are not going to personally organize the type of movement you’d need to make any actual progress on anything in this country.
They keep telling us we need to build it, and then we keep deferring to celebrities and politicians at the top because we don’t want to build it. So we lean on the dnc. You get who shows up. I’m in CA and I looked during the pandemic for some mutual aid whatever in my area. There was one and as far as I could tell it shut down before I even knew about it.
All movements only exist in people’s minds, until there’s something for them to set in motion, a plan for them to execute.
The thing we need to build is a political movement. As you pointed out, very few people have any idea about anything, let alone politics. I think the movement is bigger than just 5 million, that’s just the nihilistic part… I’d think maybe 15-20 million are truly onboard to some degree in their minds, and even more to a lesser degree, they just don’t know what their supposed to do because they aren’t politics experts. Also whenever a true leader emerges they end up getting elected, (and apparently later they then get pushed back out by big money and Israel, who knew?) but once they’re elected they’re legitimately too busy to lead anymore.
People lean on the DNC because the DNC leans on them… The DNC demands loyalty from people who’s loyalty they could get by actually doing what they want, instead they’re chasing after loyalty from people who’s loyalty they could never possibly get. It’s insanity, and it’s insulting. And the more they do it the more the lines between them begin to blur until they’ve moved so far to the right that the group to the left of them starts to look big enough to go without them… If someone could unite them. But, the same people who own the media companies pay for the Dems campaigns… the Dems control all the levers of political organizing on the left and like 6 companies control all the levers of mass communication, so the politically illiterate group kinda need the Dems apparatus to be able to make their thing work… And the more the Dems refuse to cooperate, the more it starts to seem like maybe they’re truly just not on the same team.
And wages might be growing, but are lagging far behind inflation.
To be very fair real wages grew during Biden’s administration, but probably not enough and definitely not for everyone.
I think that the problem is that the metric used for measuring the wages growth is an average:
In a society where most of the wealth goes to a few, an average is not necessarily a good measure:
I like this image from this article from the fed
They have the following remark below this graph:
For example, about 57 percent of the WGT sample had positive real wage gains during 2019, whereas during 2022, only 45 percent of people had positive real wage growth. Put another way, despite higher median nominal wage growth, the share of people with positive real wage growth between 2019 and 2022 due to higher inflation fell by 12 percentage points.
Edit, from the bottom of the article:
Your own wage growth experience might not look like that of your neighbors or your colleagues, and it might not resemble that of the person with median wage growth either.
Wanna bet the places and sectors that are doing worse than median wage growth and inflation are rural and manual labor things? That second one especially I think could explain why some gen z men voted the way they did.
If I interpret the first figure of this article correctly, the 25% poorest of the population have always been ‘shafted no lube’ (pardon my economists jargon), but were about to have a wages growth above inflation; before the fight against inflation was finally won (well done, joe) and the slaves slaved again.
“I can only think of one occasion when someone mentioned stricter taxes on billionaires or any similar policies. The atrocities being committed by Israel in Gaza only came up six times in more than 1,000 calls. The idea that Harris was not leftwing enough seems false”
The problem with this anecdotal evidence is that the campaign almost certainly put this kid to work only calling likely Republican voters… An absolute waste of time, and of course these are the things those shit brains would be saying… If he had been put to work calling people who had voted for Biden but were less likely to show up this time he would have gotten a lot more genocide, she’s not progressive enough, and tax the rich messages
On ok… So that’s anecdotal evidence, but not your terminally online ass seeing everyone on Lemmy upset with it and assuming that was any indication of real world demographics?
Got it.
Nah, we’ll have to wait for someone to poll the people who showed up last time but sat it out this time to know for real why they did it
Exactly. On the fuckin head.
Just goes to show how deeply-run this “focus on courting the fascists” was in the campaign.
There real problem is that at least 20% of the US population are evil sociopaths.
Sucks man. I was really hoping to get to the Grand Canyon before they start strip mining it for uranium, but I might be fleeing with my family before we become the rape capital of the globe. India is still king, but judging from the chuds who vote for him, it won’t be long before we surpass them. I won’t have that for my wife and daughter. They deserve better.
Look at a population density map of the US and India and take comfort in the fact that we do not live in close enough proximity to each other to ever take the title of world’s rape capital. MURICA, BITCH!!!
