It’s who their owners say to hate, so they hate them. Could be anyone and for no or any reason. They’re cultists and they do, say, hate, and fear who they’re told to.
Because most people don’t actually know any trans people, and find unfamiliar things to be weird and scary.
But also because terrible people have weaponized those feelings for personal political gain. Most people probably wouldn’t give a fuck, even if they found them weird, if talking heads weren’t stoking the flames of bigotry.
What?
I’m going to get all sorts of fun responses for trying to empathize with those with whom I disagree (instead of just writing “dumb bigots”) but here goes:
First, remember that even gay marriage is fairly new to America, it’s been around for less time than the MCU.
There are a lot of folks who almost have mental whiplash, gay marriage went from illegal to “you could get fired for being vocally uncomfortable about it” in fairly quick order.
Now, to make things even more wild for those folks, mainstream culture is pretty insistent that gender isn’t even a thing anymore. Add in some pretty wild news stories/videos*, worries for their kids and the notion that the Left refuses to say there might be any issues whatsoever and you can kinda see where a backlash could crop up.
- eg: trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc, a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition, some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject etc.
Can we compromise? No trans people in sports and trans people have their own unique prison or cell block and young teens can take puberty blockers and estrogen so they don’t need to try to pay 150,000 in facial feminization plastic surgery at 18 or 19, money of which they can only get quickly from sex work and not going to school? Sound like a good compromise?
I don’t know what the answers are!
A lot of this stuff is mostly at the state level which seems almost reasonable.
I imagine the big actual fight on this would come down to when are parents able to over-ride their kids wishes and vice versa. It’s a shitty battle for trans kids; if you don’t let them access medicine early, it puts them on a brutal path as you pointed out. But I also can’t imagine conservatives would be chill letting their kids alter their sex at such a young age. (From the parents’ perspective, what if this is just some teenage drama with lifelong repercussions?)
We don’t let kids get tattoos (and thank Christ for that, otherwise I’d probably have Wolverine fighting the Zerg on my chest or something) this seems bigger.
I dunno, like most real world issues, it’s tricky. And at the fun intersection of children and a rapidly changing perspective of gender, well damn, there are going to be some ugly fights.
I just don’t think it’s as much of a random fad for kids as conservatives worry.
the analogy of “oh i want a cool new weird haircut/strange tattoo” = same as getting hormones and genital altering surgery seems incorrect to me
kids are not that stupid at that age and gender is mostly hardwired. i just don’t think kids of that age would take it trivially
many trans kids exhibit extreme opposite gender behavior from very early ages. I am not talking about boys liking pink or not liking trucks, i am talking about boys crying because they can’t wear dresses and hating the male parts of their body. There is something that happens to some XY or XX brains in utero that causes the default brain wiring that causes certain behavior to be the opposite of what it normally is. This shouldn’t be that unfathomable. There are animals that contain DNA from before certain evolutions (like tailless animals having tail DNA) and it’s just turned off. The idea that epigenetics, prenatal hormone levels, and endocrine disruptors can’t alter sexual identity development isn’t really supported by data, and even though the exact way transgenderism occurs isn’t fully understood, it’s not caused by some evil Satanic vodoo or a liberal Hollywood plot.
The only reason why this isn’t accepted as true is an anti-science mentality caused by religion, and your response is biased by religion or conformity whether you realize it or not.
I just don’t think it’s as much of a random fad for kids as conservatives worry.
I agree. And the science might as well!
But I think Conservatives look at recent research, especially anything touching social sciences, as the product of what they view as an extremely liberal academic elite. Admittedly, I am similarly skeptical of most reports and analyses by the Heritage foundation and the like even when they share their methodology.
A charitable version of the conservative parent viewpoint might be something like “if my kid is genuinely trans, of course I’ll support them. But I am a parent and know best about how to protect them, even if it is from themselves.”
At the end of the day, I think a lot of conservative parents are opposed to the idea that government, or experts, or whomever could over-rule them about their own kids. Especially on a subject about which they probably feel somewhat uncomfortable.
I also don’t think religion is a requirement for close mindedness, though there is significant overlap.
Which I don’t get because they’re all about rape as a jail punishment
mainstream culture
Talk to any random person on the street and they don’t fucking care about identity politics.
Extremists are not the mainstream no matter how much they shout about it.
No, most people aren’t going out of their way to hurt trans people, but those loud extremists are creating a negative connotation in some people’s minds. That’s no different from racism.
Extremists on both sides are a problem, so when you say “those loud extremists” a reasonable person would have no idea who you’re talking about. I think you’re correct in either instance, but I doubt that’s what you where going for.
Oh. My bad. I thought a reasonable person would assume I meant the loud extremists that match the topic of this post.
There’s a reason conservatives campaign against “woke.” And most conservatives I know socially called the election a win against woke, even if they couldn’t exactly name a woke policy that Harris proposed.
Harris explicitly didn’t play identity politics, and I applaud her for it. I think the left is starting to realise even people who agree with them dislike being told what to think … one can dream right.
I like your dream and fully agree on Harris.
Sadly (though I am admittedly a pessimist and would love to be wrong) I think the Left elites/party brass are coming to that realization on identity politics. But I dont think mainstream/cultural Left is and unfortunately, I think Right and centre Right curious voters view the political and cultural Left as the same.
You were doing reasonably well, until you diverted to pure transphobia in the last paragraph
The listing of the news/videos they may have seen?
Not the list, but the way you described them, as if these were things that actually happen…
This is part of the thing. If we on the Left can’t have an honest discussion about things that do happen, then it is incredibly hard for anyone not already “on side” to take us seriously.
trans women being reassigned to women’s prisons and then assaulting the women etc https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/09/26/americas-growing-row-over-policies-for-transgender-prisoners “Tremaine Carroll, a transferred inmate serving 25 years to life for violent crimes, was charged with raping two women in ccwf and faces trial soon; Carroll denies the charges. In 2022 an inmate moved to Rikers Island women’s prison in New York received a seven-year sentence for attempted rape.”
This is a tricky issue, trans women in men’s prisons are also at risk. But to straight up deny these things happen and deny the existence of non transphobic concerns, well, that’s hard to take seriously.
a 6"2, 220lb woman practically murdering her handball oppoisition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SJYdXj7Kac&ab_channel=WilsonB9000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Mouncey
Murder was hyperbole, probably inappropriate. But damn, she is just so much bigger than her entire team and everyone on the opposition in all of those clips. (She also dominates in Aussie rules football.)
some fairly sketchy research practices by some of the authorities (WPATH) on the subject https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/27/research-into-trans-medicine-has-been-manipulated
The whole article is discomforting and worth reading. But, while WPATH (what is supposed to, and claims to be and independent science based organization) was creating their guidelines: “But an email in October 2020 from WPATH figures, including its incoming president at the time, Walter Bouman, to the working group on guidelines, made clear what sort of science WPATH did (and did not) want published. Research must be “thoroughly scrutinised and reviewed to ensure that publication does not negatively affect the provision of transgender health care in the broadest sense,” it stated. Mr Bouman and one other coauthor of that email have been named to a World Health Organisation advisory board tasked with developing best practices for transgender medicine.”
Again, I’m generally on board with trans rights etc but to say there aren’t issues just makes it that much harder to take us at face value.
This is a tricky issue, trans women in men’s prisons are also at risk
“Also at risk”
The fact that you equate cherry picked single instance anecdotes as comparable to entrenched violence and discrimination against trans folk as being somehow comparable is the part that makes it transphobia.
Murder was hyperbole
It was, yeah. Despite her “murdering” the opposition, from the very article you linked, Australia finished 5th.
There are 7 players on a handball team. She scored 23 goals across 6 games, for an average of just under 4 goals per game (3.83 to be specific).
The total goals scored by Australia in those games was 160, which works out to an average of 3.81 per Australian player across those 6 games. Her “murdering” of her opponents consisted of having a 0.02% higher average than her team mates.
The fact that you parrot lines like “murdering” and look at videos designed to make it look open and shut, whilst not bothering to investigate the reality of the situation is what makes it transphobic.
The whole article is discomforting and worth reading. But, while WPATH (what is supposed to, and claims to be and independent science based organization) was creating their guidelines:
An article posted on the economist, who has Helen Joyce, a vocally transphobic journalist as one of their senior staff. Linking to an article that has been mostly circulated on various transphobic websites, calling out WPATH for being biased and getting in the way of evidence based research? Whilst defending the Cass review, which has been widely called out by many international medical bodies for its own bias and inconsistent approach to evidence.
The fact that you’re worried about WPATH as the real issue here is telling…
You are misunderstanding.
Most reasonable, casual folks, who aren’t up on who Helen Joyce is or other trans poli sco lore, these are all fairly reasonable takes. The Economist is generally regarded as one of the most reputable papers around and for good reason.
I’ve also not presented my beliefs, just “here’s some pretty mainstream concerns.” I made that pretty clear in my opening statement (and pointed out that pretty much this exactly would happen.)
You’ve clearly encountered these arguments before (definitely didn’t watch the video which is fucking sympathetic). I’m not making these arguments.
I’m saying that reasonable people, who read one of the most reputable papers in the world can in fact have reservations on some trans issues. I can disagree with them but it’s not just bigotry.
Yes, they’re designed to seem that way.
Which is why I earlier stated that my issue wasn’t with listing them, but specifically, the way you presented them.
I’ve also not presented my beliefs
You used the word “murdering” to describe a transgender woman playing sports with other women, despite her playing at a level comparable to them.
You absolutely presented your beliefs.
U are literally denying objective reality at best it weakens ur arguments at worse it makes u look like a grifter.
Bruh check out the guys post history, read their comment history, they arent exactly a trans ally
I don’t recall posting about trans anything, can you refresh my memory?
Edit: Oh, it’s you! Are you making this assumption because I disagree with you and condemn the advocating of violence on republicans and democrats?!?
This aligns with what I have heard from folks I know in that world. Fear motivated by exaggerating one off and isolated incidents. The information silos in the conservative world (especially news) is frightening.
Because queerness (trans, gender non conforming, gender fluid, agender, bigender and related) threatens hierarchy.
In western society regardless of how ‘progressive’ some parts of it have gotten, for the majority there’s still a strict hierarchy. Man most important, then woman, then children first boys then girls. Trans people completely disrupt this hierarchy by being able to change what they are and those who cling to hierarchy freak the fuck out over it.
Then there’s the sexual panic, a straight man who’s insecure is gonna freak out if the woman they think is cute actually has a penis.
Meh, I don’t know if it’s strictly a hierarchy thing. I think it’s probably more “just” a heteronormative thing. Closed-minded people who don’t like things or people that are different. Fear of difference. I’m just speculating, here.
I can also see the sexual panic aspect.
That’s cuz it isn’t hierarchy, it’s tradition. People have a hard time warming up to things that are very different from the norm.
Yes! Screw the patriarchy
I don’t agree. For ages in any life or death situation it is woman and children first. Men are the strongest of the bunch, any respectable man is putting his children and wife onto a lifeboat before themselves. You’d have a hard time finding a father/husband who wouldn’t.
Your little scenario explicitly presumes that the man would be the one in charge, making this decision.
Who else would be in charge of a man making the decision to let others go ahead of himself? It is a self made decision, and a selfless one. So of course he is the one making the decision. A woman could just as easily make this decision, if she did would you still be saying “well of course she did, she’s the one on charge!”. I hope not. You just don’t like the fact that when shit hits the fan, oftentimes men are the ones who step up and help others and even sacrifice themselves. Have whatever qualms you will with men, but at least give them credit where they deserve it.
You will never succeed trying to get through to the woketivists
If that were true, then it would be trans men getting the most attention because they’re the ones cheating their way up this hierarchy. In my experience, 99% of the hate is directed at trans women.
If the transphobes thought trans men were men then your comment would be accurate. But they just see them as confused women and easy to just ignore them like they ignore cis women.
(You are right about trans women bearing the brunt of the hate, and I think so much of that is sexual panic from cishet men about finding a penis owner attractive)
Removed by mod
Their systems of power rely on having an “in” group and an “out” group. Overt racism is less acceptable these days because now there are brown Republicans, but transphobia? Very in.
They’re just choosing a new group to “other” so that we don’t realize they’re coming for everyone who doesn’t fit into their narrow worldview.
This
In a less direct way one standing theory is that it’s tied to cultural issues with gender relations and due to the lack of a cultural role for us (at least in cultures where that applies or where those roles were damaged during colonialism, which was very common). Then there’s also the oversexualization of trans people.
For the first one Julia Serrano does a good job going into a lot of detail for a big chunk of it, but the quick summary is that there’s two axes of sexism: traditional (one sex and that which is associated is better than the other, traditionally prioritizing the masculine over the feminine) and oppositional (that that which is associated is deeply connected and immutable). All sorts of people run up against oppositional sexism, from cis gay people to dudes who like to sew. But it’s likely necessary to reinforce traditional sexism.
Then there’s the lack of cultural space. It’s being built, but it isn’t done yet and until it’s been uncontroversial for some time it’ll be at risk. It’s the issues of “I don’t know how to treat them” and “it’s against god”. It’s people angry that their understanding of one of the most vital parts of their culture is being called to make space for something that’s new to them
Then there’s the oversexualization. Trans people all throughout the world have a long history of resorting to sex work to survive. That means that to many people our existence is seen as inherently sexual. I grew up where trans people only appeared on tv as tragic sex workers, jokes of erotic disgust, or Springer style freak shows, and the next closest depictions were as murderous erotic crossdressers (which many saw as the same thing). And so now here I am, one of them, demanding you treat me as an educated professional and a peer and a decent chunk of bigots will see my face as inherently pornographic and therefore unfit to display around children. They hear about teenagers wanting to transition and think of it as sexualizing them. And for a certain portion of people they’re mad that a porn category and type of exotic hooker is demanding rights
There’s more, and I didn’t say it all the best I could (typed it out off and on over a while between doing things as well as it being something I mostly break down in discussions with other trans people). But yeah, we’re different and we challenge basic understandings of some of the foundations of society and culture, but our liberation helps break down the issues you’re already facing and a lot of the time the requests we’re making make life easier for cis people once y’all get used to us being around.
They’re an easy minority to scapegoat. In the US they make up between 0.5% and 1.6% of the population. A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia). They’re just people trying to find their place in the world and live their lives, same as most of us.
A sizable portion of straight people associate being transgender as something sick and weird and a sexual deviancy, so it’s easy to target them and to try to associate them with actual objectively bad things (ie pedophilia).
I find that disgusting and totally incorrect, but actually I would be fine if that’s what they thought and that’s where they stopped.
But they want to pass laws telling other people how they have to behave, and how they have to do things.
The most unamerican and unpatriotic, anti-freedom thing that I can possibly think of, is people passing laws to define something as intimate and personal as gender identity and family planning. Like can’t they just fuck off and let people be how they want?
It’s extremely weird. And these fucking bigots think because they won the election they’re not weird anymore, but most of the country did not vote. These people are still weird as fuck. If everyone voted they would get crushed and laughed out of town.
They got like 1–2% more votes than Harris got and only got ~1 million votes over 2020. Had Harris gotten the same number of votes as Biden she would’ve won. It’s not that the country went more Conservative, it’s that Democrat voters are unreliable and failed to come out. There’s hardly a “mandate” to speak of, these people are still weird as shit, nothing changed.
Not that it really matters as a legitimate cause to dislike trans people, but the 2023 Nashville shooting at a school was done by a trans person.
Because fascists need a ~scary other~ to scapegoat to erode everyone’s rights.
As others have said, one did shoot up a school (and the MSM hid the manifesto & details forever). As your comment proves, they found out the shooter was trans & they tried to memory-hole that real hard. But that’s besides the point; evil & depraved people will be evil & depraved people. Doesn’t matter, trans or not.
Main conservative talking points against trans people: They do not produce children, trans people are categorized as having a mental illness that should be treated instead of chopping off body parts, they really don’t like when health insurance money and/or tax dollars pay for elective surgery & treatments, fully transitioned people have their genitals mutilated & they’ll never experience an orgasm, once they’re chopped up a not insignificant number of trans people experience regret (permanent consequences for acting on temporary feelings), and trans people are more likely than the general population to have depression & commit suicide.
With well-intentioned conservatives, it’s actually coming from place of care & compassion. They don’t want people to hurt themselves, deprive them of families & fullness of sexuality, or see them despair post-op & kill themselves.
Because the science ia highly debated and we are yet to come to a real consensus on the issue. From what ive seen most people really dont gives a fuck about being anti trans they give a fuck about trans intervention with children.
A lot of conservatives want to simplify life because they have a simple mind.
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People fear new unknown things (as perceived by the individual), especially when it comes to bodies and human form, instinctively.
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It doesn’t conform to their strict societal standards as crafted by thousands of years of culture and history. The authorities have always persecuted and cracked down on anything that threatens the patriarchal standard.
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Minorities make the easiest targets. Trans people are an extreme minority.
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Some people think it has more to do with sexuality and sexual urges, so their perception is that it is perversion.
Projection is also a common way for people to deflect blame for societal ills. Religious zealots will ignore and even shield sexual abusers present in their own institutions and divert that animosity to outside groups that make convenient targets. They are ok with the abusers within their walls because they are seeking absolution through religious systems. They are not ok with queer people because they need to scapegoat a group to explain why things don’t seem to be getting better.
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After it became less acceptable to explicitly hate the gays in public they needed a new target. There’s a lot of people who like being riled up with hatred, who are fearful and need a bogeyman, etc. It’s either human nature or something deeply embedded in our culture. Eventually they will move on and find a new target to focus their hate on.
