Inportant fact to consider is that: Political gerrymandering is a “non-justicable political question” according to the supreme court, meaning the courts claim they have no constitutional power to decide this, and its up to congress (via passing a bill with the president’s approval) to decide if it should be legal, and in the mean time, it’s currently legal.
Republicans have been gerrymandering in red states.
Democrats in blue states on the otherhand, are either currently using non-partisan or bi-partisan commitees/commissions to draw the districting maps, or are in the process of switching to said methods of drawing the districting maps.
This mean that the house would become tipped in favor of republicans.
California and New York surely has a lot of red districts that we can gerrymander out of. The question is: Should Democrats do that? Should Democrats play dirty like republicans have? (Again, supreme court have said that political gerrymandering is legal)
Because I fear that we would have republicans perpetually in control of the house even if Democrats have the most votes nationwide.
Being the more virtuous party doesn’t work, so yes. Yes to all of the dirty tricks, including extralegal. Anything to preserve some kind of sanity because the alternative is unacceptable.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Four legs good,
Two legs better!
Yes, of course they should. Have the past 40 years not taught us anything at all?
Maryland is a good example of gerrymandering in a blue state.
That state has like 8 seats.
Meanwhile, California, New York, Washington, Colorado, New Jersey, uses Non-Partisan Independent Commissions to draw the maps. These commissions aren’t gonna gerrymander.
red states, on the otherhand, almost all are using the republican-dominated legislature to draw the maps. They gerrymander the shit out of them.
Democrats are so bad at this gerrymandering game.
Ny tried to do it but courts stopped it
California uses a jungle primary though, which disenfranchises minority parties.
Cool, this thread is about gerrymandering though.
Yes, absolutely.
The American left has a terrible habit of playing nice instead of playing fair.
Congressional gerrymandering should be regulated nationwide or not at all. Instead, we’re stuck with this asinine “no gerrymandering except in redcap occupied states” situation.
Yep. You play by the rules on the ground. Gerrymandering shouldn’t be a thing, but as long as it is, the Democrats should use it to their advantage.
Q: Should (insert political party here) disenfranchise voters for the benefit of (insert political party here)'s political ends?
A: No.
If you have no principles you have nothing.
Spoiler alert: if you are the only one with principles and you have no teeth you don’t have anything either.
The thing is that they’ve got teeth. E.g. redistricting, along with the plurality of powers granted to the countless offices across the nation that they hold.
Ohh THATS why we keep reading about R gerrymandered districts being struck down, then delayed, redrawn, struck down, and delayed until they are used again for the next election because no time for with literally zero recourse after consolidation of power. Pretty sure that list now includes in the last 5 years NC, OH, and VA minimally.
Where teeth?
I would say no, because I’m of the opinion that the practice needs to be done away with altogether. There’s no reason why somebody’s vote should count any more or less than their neighbor’s. If they both live in an area that will be affected by their vote, their votes should have equal weight, period. I’ve yet to hear a single compelling argument for why we still do this today.
No. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
High roading your way into fascism, a liberal classic.
The reality, however, is that Dems do gerrymander when they can, because you will simply lose if the other side does it while you don’t. That’s why anti-gerrymandering efforts need to be legislative and apply to everyone.
Moral integrity does not cause fascism.
LoL
Democrats have been gerrymandering since they discovered it was legal. Sure a republican was first way back when, but as soon as they realized it was legal the democrats were doing the same thing. And of course both sides complained about the other doing it when the other was in power as if they were not doing the same. Once in a while someone puts some restriction in place but this is a clear case of both sides are doing it.
Very-blue New York has an anti-gerrymandering law so severe that that it netted Red three seats two years ago.
Very-red North Carolina just ignored court rulings and gerrymandering their way to three extra seats this year. And then there’s Texas.
While both sides SHOULD play by the same set of rules, they aren’t. Not even close.
Democrats are so bad at it tho.
For example, some of the blue states, California, New York, Washington, Colorado, New Jersy, uses a Non-Partisan Independent Commission. These commissions are not gonna gerrymander maps.
Meanwhile, every red state has the republican-dominated legislature draw the maps. They gerrymander the shit out of them.
What on earth makes you think they don’t already?
The math:
https://gerrymander.princeton.edu/redistricting-report-card
This isn’t too say there are zero instances, obviously. But Democrats are gerrymandering in the same way that my 8 year old is a sculptor.
They do, just really bad at doing it.
They’ve been passing anti-gerrymandering laws in several safe-blue states, meanwhile republicans in red states are doing the best gerrymandering they can.
Democrats and their “Norms and Traditions”…
🤦♂️
There is still some gerrrymandering going on in blue states, just not as outrageously.
What they should do is push for voting reform. There are tons of proposals for voting systems that solve the two party stalemate and the issue of gerrymandering.
If they really wanted to stop the insanity of the Republican party, that’s what they would do. Until they do, they are complicit in it.
It’s only a non-justicable political question when Republicans do it. That part is written in invisible ink, which is only visible if you sign your entity’s legal name diagonally across the written decision with a red pen.
Actually, Democrats can do it. At least federally they can.
But Democrats love “Norms and Traditions” and made their blue states harder to gerrymander.
Democrats have trapped themselves.
“Norms and Traditions”
🤦♂️
Yes. Play as absolutely dirty as possible.
That’s the only way to get laws to outlaw loopholes. There’s no incentive for cheat-to-win to stop cheating because the losing side gets really noble about it.
How soon we forget:
Fuck Donald Trump. And, fuck Biden, too. Neither of them give a fuck about you.
