Is it bots? Are those humans whos mission is to cause chaos? Is the weird behaviour caused by the creation of the concept of lemmy?
Somebody please explain to me wtf is going on.
They answer destructive comments, assuming shit, demanding shit. Are they trolls?
Are they being paid for causing chaos? It’s insane
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It’s a combination of tankies and some more level headed leftists. They do have a decent proportion of OK users and the occasional decent meme, but the frequent genocide denialism and too many tankies have resulted in a lot of blocks and bans.
I’m sort of new to Lemmy, having only been here a few months, and I started my first account here in world, the one I am commenting with.
What I found is that world has many cool and fun and interesting communities, but for news ( world or USA centered) is really centralist USA based. World has cut off access to many other cool and interesting communities that may have different viewpoints here and there.
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
Me migrating to another instance still allows me to participate here in world, and I simply ignore what I don’t like here and elsewhere.
Honestly, world has as many issues with gatekeeping and power hungry mods as instances and the only way to get the full lemmy experience is to pick and chose what fits best with oneself
I think the few experiences by trolls here from other communities is more of a walled garden thing, and if world has a more inclusive mix this would solve a lot of issues .
You say be more inclusive of tankies and I say learn about the paradox of tolerance.
It’s not wall to wall tankees , this is only a minority. Which for the non tanker, can be avoided and ignored.
I was talking more of a general problem by deciding what I wanted to censor myself rather than letting others do it for me. Baby and bath water analogy and all that.
And this extends way beyond tankees and piracy.
And since people are talking about hexbear, it does have the best Syrian news coverage
If you call out genocide denialism you get banned. That’s enough for me to consider it wall to wall tankies
Yep. If you have nine tankies sitting at a table and a person joins them you have 10 tankies sitting at the table. It works the same as it does for fascists.
It’s like saying that there we’re good people in Nazi germany. Therefore we should have tolerated Hitler. Why?
insert cutesy pic of young Stalin
If you call out genocide denialism you get banned.
Which is the reason I stopped participating in some of world’s news and political communities, but because of a different genocide.
But I certainly did not go running to a community that promoted denial of other crimes. Instead I use the power of lemmy to pick and chose healthy communities.
Each instance has communities which are toxic.
That’s true in general.
Indeed I’ve witnessed Palestine denial on .world, but I’d hardly call it the prevailing sentiment on any mainstream comm there. Each time the comment would be ratioed and loudly disagreed with, which is encouraging.
I will acknowledge that .world mods have some serious pet projects and issues which is very concerning.
It’s something that is sporadically done, by some people based on the phase of the moon or what they feel like; but it’s tolerated by the other mods.
One does not see it much unless it happens to oneself or it’s read about elsewhere. However it certainly has an effect and perhaps is one of the reasons there are cycles of low engagement ( or at least lower than normal). Often people like me who have issues with it just quietly go elsewhere, which I more or less done.
But once I moved away, choosing a non political server as my new home, I was exposed to all the communities world blocks, and it was then I realized I had been censored
I feel the same but ive given up on Lemmy. Probably need to find another platform for more grown up discussions.
Even reddit is far better. Hate to say it but it’s true.
I think any large collection of people online are going to have issues similar to here; and while the distributed social networks have a distressing tendency to bunch up and get tribal, it’s better than only one instance, such as Reddit.
That said, I think these can be improved later
Tell us if you find a better alternative.
You won’t
Its a people problem, not a platform problem.
I know. But there are different platforms catering to different people, interests etc. I’m part oft some Linux, Free Software, special interest forums. And there definitely are communities with a very different atmosphere… So I wouldn’t say it’s impossible just because people are people.
Yup, that’s pretty much spot on. I don’t really have a problem with .world myself. I do hear a lot of complaints about admin powertrips, but I’ve never used .world so I have not experienced this myself.
The problem is that the tankies are running the instance and get off on banning anyone that doesn’t toe the line of the party ideology.
The “Just Kidding, but maybe not” kind of memes are both common in the tankie group as well in the right-wing group, which makes me thing it’s just the same people with different costumes, also known as a reskinned model.
Sounds like political compass shit, left or right, but primarily in the “authoritarian” top half
It’s that horseshoe again.
Far left and far right, hand in hand, both reminiscing for a 1950s that never existed. One in Russia and one in America.
The political compass has got to be the most bullshit metric, I’m according to the compos a left libertarian. It doesn’t account for theory and for people who are marxist and understand that communism has not yet materialised. Anyway just a slight annoyance i have.
The Political Compass doesn’t actually mean anything, you cannot simplify political views to a grid, moreover nobody is “authoritarian,” people have different views on centralization vs decentralization. For example, Marxists believe in a fully publicy owned, centrally planned economy, whereas Anarchists believe in full horizontalism. I would describe the Marxist system as having more potential for democracy, as you have a unified system and thus your votes and voice covers a broader area, whereas an Anarchist would disagree, most likely.
“reskinned model”, lol, interesting application of the concept. I like.
If you go far enough left, you end up back on the right.
I would argue authoritarian ‘leftism’ is just a misnamed right wing ideology wearing the sheepskin of socialism, where as Anarchism / Libertarian Socialism is the ‘real’ far left.
Lol I literally got banned from ml for “horseshoe theory”
Horseshoe theory
Authoritarians are authoritarian first. Left or right is an afterthought. No horseshoes required.
That is the base of the horseshoe theory.
Only if you have a juvenile concept of political Spectrum. That only extends across one dimension. Leninists are barely nominally left-wing. In practice most of them are State capitalist and not at all left wing.
In practice social Democrats and even Democratic socialists tend to be more left-leaning than leninists. And don’t feel a reactionary need to Slaughter or imprison those that disagree with them regularly. I mean if we are going by the providing social benefit to your chosen class of people qualifies a socialism. Then that would make the Nazis socialist. Which they most definitely we’re not.
Why would democratic socialists be less left-leaning than social democrats?
The order was not meant to be significant. And purely just a construct of a stream of consciousness speech to text. Though you aren’t wrong.
Yes, the theory comes from the superficial observation that the actions of the nominal extremes look very similar. And when your head is being crushed by the boot of authoritarianism you don’t care if it is the right foot, or the left foot wearing it.
At one time there were many concepts of what Socialism is, and at the time nazism was A socialism, of course completely opposite of the concepts that survived.
Hardly. Lennonism still exists. It’s highly similar. In fact Lenin and Stalin helped Hitler invaded Poland. And exterminated their own ethnic polish population in Russia. Leninists still defend these actions to this day and hypocritically criticize “the west”.
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Please remember that some people don’t know the lingo yet.
New people for example. New people who might come to this thread trying to learn about the different instances.
They’ve got Google.
The fringes of the political “wings” (left and right) seem similar to me, not so much in policy but in the rabid, simplistic attitudes and outright derision constantly sputtered.
Well put!
Policy is similar too, they want civil unrest and violent overthrow of current governments
I just don’t get all the anti-hexbear hate I see on other Lemmy servers. Questioning your mainstream/western/capitalist beliefs and arguing about it shouldn’t be ground for blocking them. I have yet to see any egregious behavior from them. Sure, I see somewhat outrageous takes on their own hosted communities, but have yet to see them cross the line on other servers.
Tribalism is a hell of a drug, and generally speaking people don’t like it when you support fascists that aren’t on your team.
That said, I don’t think my instance is federated with them so I only see their comments in rare circumstances, and even then half their takes are straight from RT
According to https://midwest.social/instances, it does not appear that your instance has blocked hexbear (see blocked tab), so your not seeing much of them seems to reinforce the idea that blocking them doesn’t seem justified. (Edited for clarity).
I block them through the app too lol
That’s definitely not perfect though. You won’t see the instance itself but they’ll pop up in comments
Questioning your mainstream/western/capitalist beliefs and arguing about it
I wish that’s what they actually did. Instead we get 12 year-old Twitch chatters pretending to be wiser than thou punching down
I have yet to see any egregious behavior
Lucky you!
But that’s another complaint without providing actual examples. I could just as easily complain about the same things from liberal lemmy.world posters.
How about the comment further up - “daily dot world self-soothing thread” ?
I don’t understand. Are you referring to another comment on this thread? I don’t find another comment here doing a search for either daily or soothing. Link?
A reply to the original post, from a lemmy.ml account. I blocked them, so I can’t link you to it.
I see, thanks. I’ll see if I can find it.
Fair enough. I wish I had saved the thread that time I got piled on by 40 Hexbear and .ml users acting like children when they misunderstood my point about communism. It would’ve been a great example of their pretentious and shallow meme culture.
I’m sorry to hear that you had that experience. I can imagine that the tendency of some people online to pile on is only magnified and strengthened when socialists and communists who feel that their ideology has been unjustly maligned and distorted for the last several decades finally find a group of people who think like they do.
Because they turn everything into a debate. I don’t want to constantly be called a “lib” just because I don’t think communism is the solution. These people would turn everything comment section into a warzone, even after I left all political communities. Even meme communities and communities about random unrelated topics became a minefield. I come here to destress and read some interesting stuff about topics I enjoy, not to be piled onto by 5 commies and be called a filthy lib for daring to say anything that doesn’t fit their view. I’m left-wing myself, but to them everything to their right is evil. I’m happy I don’t see their poison anymore
Ok, I understand you feel that way and believe that you’re being sincere. I just rarely get to see actual examples to back up all the complaints. Like someone else commented on some other thread I read today, I see 10x more complaints about hexbears and tankies than I see actual bad behavior from them.
I think generally it’s calmed down over the past 12 months and don’t see so much shitty behaviour like we used to. There would be a tendency for them to jump onto a thread and swarms of them would dogpile onto people spamming them with pictures and antagonize people.
Thanks for providing a bigger picture of the pattern.
Setting aside the content of their comments, I have often found their commenting style to be obnoxious or rude. They’re free to do their thing of course, but since I’m not into it, I’ve blocked that instance. Over time I’ve seen fewer and fewer comments from hexbear users, and I imagine that’s because some instances have chosen to defederate from them.
Yes, a lot of instances have blocked them, and I have yet to see a proper justification for it, other than that they confront people’s beliefs. As for being obnoxious or rude, I would love to see some example exchanges that make people think that. Unfortunately that has been difficult to come by so far. From what I have seen, they call people liberals, fascists, etc, and in turn people call them tankies, etc. Seems fairly even to me so far.
and in turn people call them tankies,
It’s hard not to when their first message is a dismissive “another fucking lib 🙄”. You try to be civil but every comment after that is along those lines. It only sounds fair when you don’t consider the rest of the context.
Understood. If it is as you described and some of their responses were disproportionate relative to your posts, then that’s regrettable.
I don’t have sample exchanges at the ready, but I take issue with the gigantic stickers, the unwarranted confrontational tone, and the childish namecalling.
I understand that the gigantic stickers thing was actually a bug that has been fixed several Lemmy versions ago. I haven’t seen a giant sticker/emoji from hexbear in quite a while. I can sort of understand what you’re saying about the confrontational tone and namecalling though.
It’s a firehouse of falsehood kind of thing. Fragment people’s concept of reality to the point where people can’t even have a conversation.
The “question your beliefs” crowd is just people trying to create an alternate (and false) narrative so they can control you.
And that’s all hexbear ever does. People not as naive as you are about these things find them to be a waste of time and they do nothing other than interrupt actual conversations based in reality. Which isn’t healthy for a discussion forum.
I suspect that your perspective of the world (geopolitically speaking) is very different from mine, so it would probably not be a constructive use of our time for either of us to go into the details of what you wrote.
you should go ask them
All responsible server admins have them defederated. Hate speech and genocide denial, that is almost certainly against the law in Canada, Germany, and other places. We defederated lemmygrad for the same reason.
My instance is hosted in Germany and does not seem to defederate from hexbear, I’m subscribed to !history@hexbear.net from this account.
I’m sorry to hear that, you should fix that.
I don’t want it to. I think instance admins should be defederating from spambot farms, but not much more than that; if there’s a chance some of its users want to read it, they should allow its users to.
That is, I want my instance admins to engage in moderation, but not censorship. I think defederating from extremist politics (whether far-left or far-right) is usually censorship, not moderation.
That’s not what censorship means. As per defenderating from spambot farms… That’s half of hexbear really
What do you mean?
You’re going to have to be a bit more specific. What’s what needs clarification?
What do you mean “half of Hexbear is spambot farms?”
If that is so, I have yet to notice it in the wild.
So basically spambots are fine as long as they are spouting something political?
That’s the opposite of what they said.
Hexbear isn’t driven by real people, it’s a politically-motivated, organized effort to spread disinformation.
I specifically chose my instance because it’s not blocked or being blocked by too many instances.
I’d rather judge myself what I want to be exposed to.
I guess server admins who haven’t defederated them are either with them ORRR they put more responsibility towards their users.
I thought the same thing, but got worn down by the constant negativity and rage.
Or they live in a country where genocide denial is legal. I live in Canada and my server is in Canada. I’m not willing to take the risk so my users can interact with assholes.
In your instance’ case, db0 has said IIRC that the Anarchists on Hexbear, while not aligning 100% with them, are generally good and worth being federated with.
There is an instance block feature you can use in the settings as a user, that seems to work pretty well for not seeing hexbear stuff
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I got a bit of harassment from hexbear users when I started using Lemmy, haven’t in a while now though, I have blocked around 30 of them and instance block
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Russian slash communist pieces of shit. Life is much easier if you just block hexbear.
Yeah but…how? How can you block from your account the whole of it? I keep getting communities belonging to hexbear popping into my feed, and I have to individually block each one of them. It’s rather tedious. Isn’t there a way to make a whole instance block from your account?
Some apps might have nicer blocking features. Or move instances to one that is defederated from them
I think most popular apps (boost, voyager if i remember, etc.) have this feature. I dont believe lemmy has this natively.
Note that blocking instances doesn’t mean you wont see comments from there. It only works on communities.
To be honest though, most of the problematic people only comment on specific posts/communities so blocking certain keywords and instances should fare pretty well.
Jerboa does, but not sure about doing it through a browser.
Yes, you can block instances through the browser. It blocks communites, not users. Users have to be blocked individually.
Voyager gives much blocking flexibility
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that’s insulting to 14 year olds
I was once an edgy online 14 year old idealist, my behavior was identical.
Are you new to the internet?
I’ve had contact to single toxic people. But never encountered such a mass of such toxicity and to suchan extend.
The community is based on fandom of a podcast that champions antagonizing liberals.
They encourage vocally expressing disagreement and disapproval and don’t have downvotes to facilitate that.
This runs counter to most instances that tend to prefer disagreement and disapproval be expressed quietly through downvotes.
So they tend to culture clash.
So liberals like quietly shutting up people they disagree with and leftists shout at each other to get their points across…
Sounds about right.
Nope, just good ol’ fashioned communists! Beware the red scare!
Demented illogical people. Also angry and bloodthirsty. Best to not interact. Waste of time.
Daily dotworld self-soothing thread.
Ah yes, another “insightful” comment of yet again an .ml user.
Please reply only if you believe that:
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year. There’s so much wrong there it’s kind of hard to know where to begin.
All I will really say for now is that they are perfect anti advocates for the things at the surface level they advocate for.
You would think having a healthy discourse and talking to each other, exchanging ideas would be better to proliferate a certain ideology.
All they do is try to insult or demand one is an all knowing being. Some read my comment and assume I’m from us and have to know every agency there is.
If they want to bring their ideologies out there they should stop trying to be destructive. All they accomplish is a negative image of their movement.
It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
Certain authoritarian ideologies and well, ideologies in general. Depend on rejecting ideas and evidence. Ideologies are ideal, but not real. So it tends to devolve into shouting and name calling. Leninists hypocritically haranguing liberals and vice versa etc.
I would definitely be down for some anarco communism. But I think it’s offensive to repeat the misnomer that ML is communism. Or ever has, ever will lead to communism. Anyone who looks to enact change through brutal, murderous suppression via a vanguard party. Could hardly exude a more juvenile thinking vibe. That “it’s okay/good when we do it” BS.
I learned something from your comment. Thank you.
Explains a lot of things that happen rn. Gaza, Ukraine, harsh cut between right/left.
Weird how an ideology that depends on rejecting ideas and evidence keeps adapting to new evidence and contexts.
I wonder why Cuban marxism is so different than Chinese marxism which is different from Soviet marxism, which is different from every south american country’s marxisms.
One might even think they’re taking a Scientific approach to Socialism.
Interesting how in every case, they betray their anarchist allies as soon as they get even a feeble hold of state power. There must be a really good peer reviewed paper that conclusively suggests that must be done. Scientifically.
It’s like a 14 yo has learned about communism and is now super edgy towards everybody because he thinks he’s hacked the system.
Yes. Exactly.
They existed on their own Lemmy instance for years before federating at some point last year.
So, they likely had their own way of interacting, commenting, moderating etc that worked for them, that they had used/built/developed themselves (I mean systems & rules, not software) for years.
And they federated shortly after the Reddit API exodus.
So an echo chamber of extreme left wing users suddenly getting to interact with a whole bunch of new people, and an inrush of more mainstream users. It made for an interesting 6 or so months.I haven’t had any bad interactions with them directly, however I have seen and disagreed with a lot of their behaviour.
Not sure if I have their instance blocked, or if my instance has defederated them.The thing is they see anything remotely right of them as equal to being a card carrying SS Nazi. They have no capacity to consider shades of gray, incremental progress, etc. It’s all or nothing, fuck you if you don’t abide.
If you aren’t dogmatically against absolutely positively every single detail of life in the west, you aren’t good enough.
.world ain’t exactly the glass hill to throw stones from yathink?
No server is. All of them are imperfect. However world is better than hex or grad. It is a simple fact. Regardless of whether you like it. Granted it is a low bar. Being heavily devoted to a heavily disproven ideology sort of puts you on the back foot to start with. But leninists have never let that stop them. But we absolutely do get a mix here on world since it isn’t an echo chamber. Leninists and fascists alike.
Being heavily devoted to a heavily disproven ideology
China is the largest economy in the world and has brought nearly a billion people out of poverty. Within a single lifetime, the USSR went from peasant farmers experiencing regular famine to putting people in space. And then capitalism brought back famine in the 90s. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than America.
Well when you kill a bunch of your people to do it, kinda negates the whole argument, eh?
They killed far fewer people under siege than capitalism does when it’s running entirely unopposed and with half the planet being immiserated for its benefit. Every year capitalism causes about 846,000 excess deaths in America alone.
Thankfully those of us on world have not had to deal with them for the better part of a year.
.world was never federated with hexbear, .world defederated “preemptively, as a last resort”
This perception is common on .world because some liberals have been lying about hexbear to encourage censoring the left even before then.
I must have misremembered lemmygrad then. Same difference. I’ve encountered hexbears on other servers. It’s one of many reasons I don’t log into Midwest.social for instance. Well more that their hardware is overloaded. But federation with grad and hex is still a good reason.
Quoting your other comment:
China is the largest economy in the world and has brought nearly a billion people out of poverty. Within a single lifetime, the USSR went from peasant farmers experiencing regular famine to putting people in space. And then capitalism brought back famine in the 90s. Cuba has a longer life expectancy than America.
If it talks like a tankie and quacks like a tankie…
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If the opposition has inconvenient facts, just tell the audience opposition is an asshole you shouldn’t listen to.
Which is exactly what you do, so well done on eating your own dog food.
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I’m not sure if the “this interpretation” reference is about the “preemptive defederation as a last resort” or the “lying” bit, but the first doesn’t need an interpretation because it was stated in the post:
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected. We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons.
The “lying” bit… I’m not sure where that comes from. It’s not the best “informed rhetoric,” that’s for sure.
The most obvious lie being claiming that hexbear was federated with lemmy.world and were just so awful they had to be defederated.
Hahahaha, many of us have had first hand experience of hex - they attack people for the littlest ring, insult, denigrate, etc.
So stop your gaslighting.
What little thing are you being attacked for? The worst I’ve experienced was being called an atlanticist in a discussion on North Korean military preparedness.
Hexbear is sweet. Those people care more about the average human than liberals could ever imagine. If you dont understand them, try learning instead of being confused forever. I post this knowing I’ll get dunked by .world, but this is what solidarity looks like.
Ah spoken like a true Tankie.
Hahahaha, right, right, which is exemplified with them telling people to die, right?
Take your gaslighting elsewhere.
Unfortunately we are supposed to be circle jerking the same opinion here, didn’t you get the memo?
They care about the average human
Just 2 months ago they were celebrating the death of inocent civilians in 9/11 as if it was a holiday.
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my ex and i incorporated 9/11 jokes into our sex life five years ago. it’s been long enough
I don’t mind jokes on the topic. It definitely wasn’t some jokes, tho, they were actively celebrating it, wishing each other a happy 9/11 and hoping for a similar event to happen soon.
I don’t know, for me it went past the “just a prank, bro” scale.
Can’t say I’ve noticed a problem tbh.
I can’t either.
Me neither. Of course I have the instance blocked and every user I see comment; so that probably helps.
Inb4 tankie I think hexbear is pretty cool
