- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
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Linus Tech Tips really is scum. Yet more proof of that.
It was a matter of time until the public found out about this. They couldn’t think in the long term, by not accepting a bit of backlash, exposing the scam they unknowingly participated in they only opened themselves up for more later.
They are not only evil, they are stupid too, which is worse.
OP isn’t exactly giving you the full story there. I know for a fact I’ve seen a video on this. I remember thinking at the time “well duh”.
Same person that said ad blocking was the same as piracy.
edit: People downvoting me like I disagreed with him. Just saying how he looks at it. I think it’s a bit of a false dichotomy but they are definitely similar.
Have you ever heard his full stance on the matter? Because he clearly stated that this is not a judgment against using it. Heck, he’s been open about having sailed the high seas himself and still doing so for media he physically owns.
It’s just that gaining access to media while circumventing the payment (ads in this case) is basically piracy. Which is fair.
Signed, A uBlock User
I trust Linus is being sincere when he says “it’s not a judgement” but blocking ads is being compared to a criminal doing copyright infringement (illegal). The word used is one originally meaning for a person murdering others on boats (immoral), and it’s used because it’s pejorative. It’s unavoidably judgemental.
How much you want to bet he uses Ad block himself but it’s suddenly different when YOU do it on HIS content?
If I hacked a server to get content then I would be circumventing payment at it shouldn’t be up to me how it responds to requests, I don’t own it. Google trying to enforce playing adverts via software running on my property is an unjust overreach. The user choosing what displays on their own monitor is not “circumvention”, it’s claiming ownership over your computing. Google could choose to verify on their servers if I’ve paid (in normal currency) but instead their servers act like adverts are an optional donation.
It is. Taking from a service without paying for it, and actively avoiding the service making money via advertising is basically the same as watching a film without paying for it.
Both ways, you consumed a service and the people providing it got nothing, but it cost them something to create and provide it.
They are similar only if you presume there is an agreement of content in exchange for revenue from adverts. If you view the internet as a place for open collaboration, or oppose (internet) advertisement, then you wouldn’t presume that agreement and it looks very different.
It…is? You’re copying digital content without paying for it. I use uBlock but I don’t pretend to have the moral high ground.
It’s… not? It’s protection against malware and profiling by shady companies.
It can be both things at the same time.
Pretty sure this was already posted yesterday when it came out. Or it might have been a different community.
Watching the full video is important though because they are scamming the consumer too, not just “”“influencers”“”. Someone made a great comment about how it’s just one greedy troll stealing from another and has no effect on the consumer since they still save money but Honey not actually giving you the best coupons on purpose is next level dickholery.
Lying about the coupons really should be the focus so people stop harming themselves using Honey.
I used Honey before thr PayPal purchase and it did have working discount codes, as well as a cashback thing that I redeemed a couple times. But I haven’t had any codes work for a long time.
I don’t have any love for influencers but they have the right to make money IMO, and it’s completely shitty behavior for honey to be taking that away from them.
It’s also kind of a protection racket against shops. “Partner with us or we’ll cut into your profits by spreading cheap coupon codes, but partner with us and we’ll protect you”
See, I’m torn. I’ve never used honey, so I was never scammed. However I do think them scamming consumers is awful.
Buuuuuuuut, I DO enjoy the fact that they scammed influencers.
Yeah I thought that too until seeing the bits about consumers getting shafted. Awful company, hope they get sued into bankruptcy.
They are owned by PayPal, so that seems unlikely
Small content creator makes informative, honest review of a product. Honey gets money on the commission. This makes you happy?
I never use affiliate links AND I don’t bother looking for coupons (let’s be honest, who does?) so I don’t give a crap, every now and then I’m saving money without taking it from anyone 🤷
I just look up price trends and that’s pretty much it for me too. Coupons rarely ever worked for me in the early days of e-commerce so I quickly stopped bothering.
idk, I find the coupon thing to be super easy. Just takes one search and maybe two clicks if you have ad blockers on. Mostly the only time is if I’m ordering something like pizza for a get together where no special applies. There’s a local chain in my state that had a coupon code for half off my order that wasn’t listed on their site (they might’ve given it to me if I called but who knows). Been using that for the past year and it allows me to convince everyone to go there instead of a national chain. I’ve also been lucky with some manufacturers coupons for products I’m ordering straight from them, it’s more rare though so it’s hit or miss sometimes.
If you’re sitting at a poker table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can’t tell what the product is, It’s you.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
Yeah, I feel like that’s usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn’t really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you’re getting downvoted by so many people who don’t realize you’re pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
They are getting downvoted for misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services and applying it to crowd sourced non-profit open source projects.
Truly open source projects don’t have suckers.
misconstruing something that is clearly a rule about profit making services
To be honest I don’t think that’s clear at all, it feels like it’s more a rule about being skeptical of free stuff online. And many for profit companies have open source projects that can be used safely even though the source is a for-profit.
It’s difficult for others to take advantage of you when you can learn what the software actually does and have it modified to work another way.
Linux (for the most part) is open source but I’d argue the inclusion of any proprietary software/firmware/drivers means something ultimately isn’t.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
No? The OS is the product.
I think the issue was with the original commenter’s phrasing. Facebook looks like a product. But the commenter meant “How the product is being funded”.
Of course, it gets hard when there’s multiple sources of revenue. You used to be able to spot ads and come to the conclusion that that was everything. Now an ad is just the tip of the iceberg.
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
I guess most people don’t have much knowledge about affiliate link URLs and how easily they can be rewritten to shift where the commission goes. I implemented SkimLinks on a hunch of websites so I’ve seen it before. Forum owners used to get upset about anyone posting product links in their comments because they night include an affiliate code. SkimLinks adds JavaScript to every page that rewrites those codes to the forum owner’s personal account. It will even insert an affiliate code into basic Amazon links that don’t have one. Once this came out, forums went a lot easier on Amazon links.
After seeing all this, the second I spot a browser extension that wants to get between me and Amazon, I immediately assume they will rewrite all the links for their own benefit. Otherwise what’s in it for them? This news isn’t much of a surprise.
The biggest issue that this video brings up is that businesses can filter out certain coupon codes if the discount is too high
LTT… toilet flushing! I had no expectations of paypal. To my shame I used them in the past,but deleted my account after reading how scummy they are. fuck paypal and anything affiliated with them.
Mid this year they also started sharing transaction data without consent…
Delete that account
Oh, I deleted it like 1 year ago. it was probably slightly more reputable back then. it does make it easier in some cases to have a centralised way of handling payments, but I’d rather struggle with inserting my cards each time.
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
This isn’t anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
That doesn’t include users being a victim? Honey gives users worse coupons when better ones are available, apparently that happens if companies do a deal with Honey.
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
Why do I feel like mentioning the LTT was very personal?😂
They’re one of the largest tech media companies and deliberately chose to sweep this under the rug instead of reporting on it. Then they took sponsorships from Karma, which is a competitor to Honey that does the exact same thing.
No, they are not one of largest tech media companies They have less than what 100 employees. Maybe you used the wrong term?
When did they learn about it? Where your proof?
- It’s the holidays and a lot of content of made awhile, I don’t expect them to make dedicated statement.
When did they learn about it? Where your proof?
Watch the video.
seriously… did you watch the video?
https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?t=785
Here. Here’s a link to the exact moment that entire chapter starts.
I watched it, but I’ll reserve my judgment until the next wan show because I don’t know if it has been mentioned before on an earlier show or how the problem has been interpret by staff.
… Ok well here’s the link to the moment (in the video you watched) where we have one **staff ** member giving an official response to how LTT interpreted the problem in a forum post on their website.
https://youtu.be/vc4yL3YTwWk?t=811
And here’s a link to their youtube channel where they talk about honey
https://www.youtube.com/@LinusTechTips/search?query=honey
You’ll notice. There isn’t one.
So for at least two years, they knew honey was stealing affiliate links and considered it a big enough problem to end their partnership, but did not consider it a big enough issue to make a video on it.
I dunno why you keep sending me a bunch of text and videos. I’m going to wait until the next wan show, so I can understand what really happened inside.
I’m down to listen to their response myself but as someone who tried really hard to explain away their last dumb controversy only to be proven wrong multiple times, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just pure negligence. Actions speak louder than words and their actions have shown they’re a flawed company like any other despite what their conversations on WAN show would have you believe.
Fuck Honey/PayPal first and foremost, don’t get me wrong. But unless there were legal issues around it, we also can’t ignore it if the biggest tech YouTube channel found out about one of the biggest sponsors on YouTube being a scam, stopped working with them for that reason, but said absolutely nothing to anyone else.
First of all, Lemmy has a lot of users for whom English is a second language. So maybe don’t be a jackass about correcting grammar.
Secondly, in case you happen to be in that group of people ‘largest media company’ in this context applies to their reach, and not to their actual size. They are ‘large’ because they have a large audience, generate a lot of revenue, and are worth a lot of money. LMG also comprises 10 different YouTube channels with maybe 10 billion views between them.
Look I’m not correcting grammar, I’m not native English speaker myself + I’m very dyslexic.
But when someone says the biggest tech media companies, you put them in same category as Disney, Apple and so on, which makes them very small.
Sometimes people exaggerate and if you point out what they said is inaccurate then they get mad you’re not addressing their main point.
People are going mad anyways, doesn’t really matter especially here on lemmy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People are putting the blame on creators, instead of PayPal/honey, when creators are the victims too. We don’t know the full story from LLT from their side if “deliberately chose to sweep this under the rug instead of reporting on it”
If I’m questioning it, I’m going to get negative feedback because the narrative is they are to blame because they are “big”.
LTT says to have not known users were being mistreated at the time they dropped the sponsor, and that they didn’t discover it but were informed.
I don’t really wanna watch a video… but how do you “steal” affiliate links or coupon codes?
If you are doing affiliate marketing for a company and they give you a coupon code for 10% off called GET10OFF and that code gets used, the affiliate marketer gets the sale no matter where they got that code from?
I’ve slept since I watched and am not great with tech, but iirc the link with the affiliate code when clicked takes you to the site. Then honey has a pop up that, when clicked, replaces the link with their own, swiping the commission. Hope that makes sense - most people likely would not catch it. The Linus tech tips was used as an example of even a tech channel with lots of employees taking quite a while to notice themselves, and even when they did, it wasn’t quite conclusive for some reason?
Another thing the video touched on is that honey would claim to search for coupons but often opt to show what the partnered companies want. So, could be there’s a coupon for 50% but they only show 10%.
Ah gotcha. So what I said about coupon codes would be valid, but affiliate links are different than the coupon codes. Also crazy they hide bigger discounts.
Edit: But I guess they could find a company offering a coupon code, then sign up themselves knowing it’s an option now, and then show that code instead.
He says that when you click on an affiliate link, a cookie gets stored on your browser that lasts for 30 days, saying that the source should get the commission for your purchase. Honey has a popup in checkout, even when there are no codes, with a big “Got It” button to close the popup. Clicking the Got It button replaces the old cookie with a Honey cookie, giving the commission from your purchase to them instead of your source.
and thats only one of the problems he mentions in the video
I assume it looks for affiliate links and replaces the original with it’s own affiliate ID.
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
This isn’t even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren’t scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven’t quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it’s buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
I don’t mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first–you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more–but at least it’s clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that’s an immediate red flag.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn’t use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn’t just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered “yeah, but where do they get their money?” I always figured it was just a way to take people’s data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, let’s be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. It’s basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon product’s country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didn’t work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
There’s a good one for Amazon called Keepa that shows you the price history of the item. Helps a ton keeping prices in check during sales like Prime Day to see how much you are actually saving, if anything.
Also nice to see how much you could potentially save if you just wait for the next sale or if there was already a price decrease. Often times it looks like I’m good buying without waiting for any sale as the sales only knocked off a few dollars, at most.
Thank you for the recommendation, looks neat. Tracking prices of different conditions is a nice touch. I’ll have to scrutinize it further when I make my next online purchases and chuck it into Edge as I made that my dedicated shopping browser.
Triple Camel does this too
Nice! Thanks for the recommendation, I love having alternatives in case anything unexpectedly goes down.
It’s funny how Edge got lambasted for it when they introduced that feature, but it’s legitimately super helpful and non-invasive.
I had no idea it was, I don’t keep up with browser news. I just wish they didn’t migrate to Chromium. It became my main browser for a brief period before that.
I just used it randomly when I was working and doing some shopping for a computer in my downtime and decided to try out the feature. That and the AI are super good when combo’ed to shop smart. Managed to save $800 off a quality laptop.
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
Also pcpartpicker to track pc parts. Isthereanydeals for game prices.
everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Enshittification correctly defined.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
“Hey Honey, we’ll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off.”
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasn’t worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesn’t fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we can’t have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. There’s no place for ethics in that combination.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didn’t realize they were playing both sides. It’s fucked.
I deleted my PayPal account a couple of months ago already. Problem solved.
Literally just watched that. I agree with his consideration that that’s fraud.
I haven’t trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they can’t even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
