If everyone just said fuck it and stopped paying their insurance, it would crash not just those companies, but domino into taking out the entire stock market.
Like, these companies are worth so much, and they invest in others and people invest in them. If their entire revenue stream is stopped at once that’s it.
Which makes it kind of a nuclear option, one I’ve intentionally not mentioned and haven’t seen anyone else either.
But the day may be coming
Corporations mainly pay for health insurance. Imagine employee’s reactions being told they were getting cut off. Not going to happen.
If the employee cancels their plan, the corp ain’t going to keep paying.
I don’t know why someone would read my comment and imagine I meant corporations should cancel their employees insurance…
But I think that’s what happened here
You have a point I missed!
We don’t get to drop out of plans at a whim.
I’m on VA, so I admittedly don’t know much.
But to my knowledge marketplace can be cancelled at any time, thru employer may only be certain times.
But I do know you can stop any non court ordered payroll deduction at any time…
Some dumbasses even do it for OASDI and tax withholding and then act shocked when they get the bill at end of year.
Interesting idea, but you’d need to get employers on board. Many of whom are publicly traded companies.
Surely people will have better access to health care once the system has “crashed”!
Well yeah? Once it crashes you can rebuild it properly.
Well, the people who survive can rebuild it as they see fit, anyway.
I have no reason to think that the general public will suddenly be more organized than the surviving oligarchs.
If only the oligarchs survive, they’ll quickly die off from having nobody to actually keep the world running.
This is one thing that really scares me about automation and AI. Without a doubt, they will replace as many of the functions that humans are responsible for with automation and software as is possible. Once they have things up and running, there’s nothing stopping them from doing whatever they want and not caring about the human cost.
A big salty tear.
When someone stops paying their insurance, they stop getting healthcare. Most people don’t want that.
It’s kind of like saying “If everyone said fuck it and set their car on fire, then oil companies would suffer”. Yes, but they aren’t the only ones who would suffer.
When someone stops paying their insurance, they stop getting healthcare.
When people pay their insurance, they don’t get healthcare either.
No, they generally do get health care. In fact, most insured adults give their health insurance an overall rating of “excellent” or “good”, even if they are in poor health.
It’s true that there are horror stories, but those are not the majority.
Which is why there was so much sympathy for the UHC CEO and why his killer is universally hated.
29% of people have “very unfavorable” views of Luigi Mangione, compared to only 13% of Brian Thompson. The vast majority believe his murder was not justified.
It sure is neat seeing under which circumstances lemmy regards polls as reliable.
Were you one of the Lemmy users who thought Trump was “universally hated”? If so, you were in for a big surprise there too.
Reading the rest of the survey makes me belive that americans either don’t know what a good insurance company looks like or that they must lie to themselves
Which is exactly why we’ll never have single payer: It would crash the economy and put millions out of work.
Downvote me all you want but it’s the exact reason Obama gave for not pushing single payer
How?
For the same reason not paying our insurance will crash the economy: Big parts of it would go out of business.
The obvious solution is to put a plan into place to transition to a new system over time. There’s no reason it has to come all at once, unless there’s a viable way to do that without collapsing markets.
The conclusion to any problem is never, and should never, be “Welp! The problem is too big to fix now! Guess we’ll just leave it as it is!”. Every problem has a solution. Most problems have more than one.
Further than that, as a recently unemployed working class person who was paycheck to paycheck before my freelance gigs dried up a month and a half ago (slow season started early this year), fuck the stock market. Why should I worry about the extractors losing money when they have already created a system in which, through no lack of effort on my part, I have nothing left to lose. I’m in the top 10% of technicians in my city, in a very niche field, in one of the largest cities in the US, and I can’t afford my bills because my industry is dominated by a single monopoly. Anyone who doesn’t serve the monopoly directly either serves it indirectly, or feeds on its scraps. Small company owners (I’ve worked with many) justify paying people just slightly more than the starvation wages the monopoly doles out. Unions are gaining ground, but it’s very slow progress and they haven’t really expanded far beyond entry level positions yet, which I leveled out of well over a decade ago.
Fuck the stock market. Fuck the rich. Why should I care about them when all they do is extract?
I don’t disagree with you but I do not believe our government is capable of a decade-long transition to single payer.
Why not? All they have to do is make a single payer option available. Make it functional and accessible, and people will switch to it as their current insurance policies end, or when they move to their next job. The health insurance stock market will likely initially dive, then stabilize into a long downward slope. I’m sure the feds have all kinds of “quantitative-easing” tools they can use to make the process less painful for the ownership class. Whatever pain they do feel would be a necessary consequence of the wrongs they have committed being made right.
Is “the economy” code for how hard you can fuck yourself in the ass with no lube?
“The economy” is code what for every single fucking one of us participates in. This notion that the economy only applies to the rich is sophomoric, and I’m being generous calling it that.
So every other country with universal healthcare just doesn’t exist or?
And that has what to do with what? Cute quip though.
If we remove a million+ jobs, yes, that will fuck shit up. Y’all have an 8th-grade understanding of the world. Upvotes means you’re right, downvotes bad.
As to what OP posted, it’s like Obama said, we’re not starting on a level playing field, we’re starting in a ditch. Other countries started healthcare after WWII, did the right thing, for many reasons I won’t go into here.
Sorry, forgot where I was.
“SIMPLE ANSWER GOOD!”
I don’t know why I’m getting grief for agreeing with OP that eliminating health insurers would crash the economy.
To me this is fine but most people won’t like it which is why single payer won’t ever happen without a revolution.
Is not liking it the same as crashing the economy?
I always figured a great deal of those people would move to government work. They already have the expertise.
The problem is that there are large parts of those companies that are replicated multiple times that would be made redundant.
Each company has an IT department, legal department, marketing department, and claims department, among a lot else. Most of those would be redundant or unnecessary in a single payer system.
Part of the reason single payer is more cost effective is eliminating administrative overhead. And “administrative overhead “ is code for jobs.
Any job that gets between a patient and the care they need is a job that needs to die.
And what will you do with all these unemployed people?
Checkmate, guys. We can’t endanger some jobs in order to help everyone. Sorry. Guess we’ll just keep doing this failure of a system that keeps a few rich from the rest of us struggling.
No answer huh? I’ll send a million beggars to your doorstep. Jesus Christ you people are children. Can we actually talk about how this works?!
No doubt. I’m an antiwork radical and think nobody should have a job. But the one thing both political parties and the public seem to agree on is “more jobs” so anyone who says “less jobs” isn’t going to get elected.
And that seems logical! But we’ve talked about combining the local city and county for cost savings. Turns out, it wouldn’t be too big a deal.
Not like if we doubled the population we’d need the same amount of people approving construction planning. We’d pretty much need double. And that’s one of 1,000 examples.
But you’re spot on with admin overhead! That would indeed drop. Not by half, as in my example, but it would certainly drop. The biggest drop would be profit. And we can all agree healthcare shouldn’t run like private enterprise.
I’m totally with you. Yes, got single-payer would slash thousands and thousands of jobs, maybe a million or three. And yes, that would fucking hurt. It’s like the Obama quotes you posted. We didn’t start on a level playing field, we started in a ditch.
Lemmy hates our sort of discourse. “NO! It’s all very simple! Why won’t you talk simple!”
I’m 100% on board with Medicare for all and have been since 2016. I’m just trying to recognize logistical and political speedbumps
Lemmy: NO! SIMPLE ONLY!
You’re fighting an uphill battle.
The stock market has survived fire sales before and it will survive it again. Oops we got too large to easily stop has never been cause for anything except getting the stick out and beating them down to size.
-
Privatize ALL the health insurance companies.
-
Reduce inefficiencies (fire all the parasites that don’t do actual work, like the CEO’s, etc)
-
Continue operations as normal, but now with 100% guaranteed claim coverage.
-
Over time, phase out the need for people to “deal with insurance” at all and make the whole thing transparent.
-
I’m not suggesting you’re wrong, but isn’t there an obvious inefficiency here that reduces the standard of care provided?
Like if a national healthcare system doubles the number of administrators involved, there will be less money available for actual health stuff.
Yes, and the inefficiency of private health insurance creates thousands of jobs and powers a $2.2 trillion industry.
I’m not sure how that puts people out of work? Still need people to process the claims, they would just work for the government vs the company. Which for them would probably be better long term getting federal benefits and retirement.
It’s only a couple companies at this point. There’s been so many members over the years. Economy would be fine. We probably had more tech layoffs this year than would lose their job from closing these leeches
But that would go against small govt and the GOP cannot let that slide.
what he really meant is that non millionaires dont deserve world class health care
It’s neat watching lemmy’s centrists acting like they object to the idea of letting people go bankrupt and die, in that order, for insurance companies’ bottom lines.
Democrats killed the public option before a single Republican voted on the bill. Joe Lieberman was enough of a Democrat to run for VP, and you don’t get to disown him just because he did what you wanted but don’t want to admit wanting. And it’s not like he did what every centrist wanted by his lonesome, either. Ben Nelson was instrumental in killing the public option.
Biden promised that he was going to revisit the public option. Like so much of what he promised, it was always a fucking lie.
Telling the truth that their favorite political sports team actively hates them just much more subtly always gets them upset.
No matter how much you use their preferred sources, reasoned arguments, direct quotations, there’s always someone or something else to blame or they do illogical comebacks and then claim they won. If I wanted that, I’d be a Republican.
It’s genuinely bothersome that the defaulted “Not evil party” has a bunch of mindless zombies who will agree with everything like the “Actually Evil” party, but they have enough IQ points to reason their way why they love a party that doesn’t know they exist, and would gladly have them removed from the country if it meant a bit more money or 0.1% election gains.
Delay, deny, depose
He really has talent in choosing all his picks. “Ummm who could be the worst person ever to fill this role?”
Being serious, it seems like he picked his people from a couple of pools.
- Republicans with a lot of social media clout.
- People plausibly accused of being Russian agents.
Don’t forget name-recognition (even outside the social media spheres.) When’s the last time so many cabinet picks were names the average American already knew? It’s not like we’re the most informed group of people. Yet out of all the millions of people in the United States, what are the chances that the best people for these jobs are ones the public has already heard of?
Trump has gotten as far as he has by treating his own name like a brand. It’s not surprising that he prefers to associate with others who’ve done the same.
Every one of those terrible picks has been a deliberate, careful choice to destabilize the country.
Except the NASA guy. He’s probably pretty good. But his job is to funnel contracts (and therfore billions of dollars) to spacex.
Anyone decent will be fired for not doing terrible things or quit because there’s too much pressure to do the terrible things (cf Trump’s first term). Most of them are happy to do the terrible things this go round, though, because they were identified in advance for being willing to do the terrible things.
Why should only the military pay for overpriced stuff they don’t need?
deleted by creator
Somebody call Luigi.
He’s tied up.
Nah, we talking about the real Luigi
Waluigi
WARLUIGI
Just think: you all did the right thing, holding your nose at the polls, voting for Fetterman to block Oz. And now you have both of them.
Brain damage causes conservatism.
Nah, I probably have some decent brain damage and am solidly progressive.
Same here. My brain injury made me even more radical. If anything has me wondering if I’ve gone paranoid and insane seeing all this coming danger while the rest of the world just goes about their business.
Hmm yeah fair point, I’m in the same boat.
Proposed amendment: enough brain damage causes conservatism.
We better lay off the concussions, got it haha
Not fucking happy about it. Worst possible outcome.
Lol ah the American Dream.
Life, uh, finds a way…
Did anyone read the article? I didn’t really understand it, the way he phrased it. I mean I’m not defending him or anything. He said a lot of other crap, but in the article it sounded like he was saying uninsured didn’t DESERVE the right to health, but rather didn’t currently(2013) POSSESS the right to health, because they were uninsured. He said that people should be screened for free. Not sure what kind of screening he was talking about but…
Is that the way you read it?
Your interpretation is generous, but let’s go with it. So hospital ERs should deny patients without insurance. Let them die, let babies die, let grandmothers die, all because they are poor. That is what you are saying he was saying.
And that, my friend, is immoral bullshit. People like that are a plague on society.
No I get it. I’m not defending the celebrity medic. I’m just saying that I think the title may have been misleading. But quite seriously I found what he did actually say a bit confusing. That’s all.
That’s not the way I read it, but I can see where you’re coming from:
Give them a way of crawling back out of the abyss of darkness of fear over not having the health they need, and give them an opportunity, cause they don’t have the right to health, but they have the right to access a chance to get that health.
Comes across as “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” rhetoric to me.
America Last. WTF, the Government of Putin wants an epidemic to break out. How many people in the red run welfare counties would be affected by Dr. Oz’s plan? Indeed, a shit ton and they voted for it.
I’ll make it much simpler to understand. The only thing putin wants. Is America out of the way. Whatever form that takes. So that he can pursue his plans in Eurasia.
Oz went on to explain that most people have misread the Constitution and Bill of rights, people can have life OR liberty OR the pursuit of happiness. Only the rich will get all three…
It’s an interesting perspective on a phrase that literally says “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness”.
Funny because you can only pursue liberty or pursue happiness when dead. Almost like the afterlife, religion is an instrument of class oppression
FFS, this guy thinks it’s a prix fixe menu!
And anti-healthcare weirdos don’t have a right to anybody ever respecting them.
Ha ha ha. Pop pop pop.
Under your plan, UnitedHealth’s revenue from Medicare Advantage would roughly double to $274 billion annually,” the Democrats wrote.
That’s the point.
I’d like to see another outcome, like the government withdrawing their contracts due to fraud, but regulatory capture is strong here.
I’d like to see another outcome
It wasn’t possible…
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/unitedhealth-group/summary?id=D000000348
They bought Kamala too, even if she won they’d be winning.
Shit like that is what depressed turnout. Moderate Dems just keep taking loses like that because their goal is as narrow wins as possible.
They want to be just better enough than Republicans that they can win. But they ignore that better candidates would easily win.
