• Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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    5 days ago

    “Criminals they forced into the United States” = “Invasion”

    “Repatriation” != “Deportation”

    Repatriation is what happens when you return a POW to their country of origin. Deportation is when you return a criminal to their country of origin.

    POWs are not entitled to access to the criminal justice system. They can be held indefinitely without charges, or returned to their country of origin, without judicial oversight. Since deportation is a judicial process, POWs are not subject to deportation.

    POWs are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of US law; Trump is arguing that the children of “invader-immigrants” can’t be citizens.

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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      5 days ago

      The term repatriation is not in any way exclusive to POWs. It was, for example, used extensively during COVID when talking about voluntary repatriation of expats to their home countries.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        5 days ago

        True. I should have been more clear: Deportation requires the involvement of the judicial branch. Repatriation has no such requirement. “Repatriation” is a more generic term for returning to one’s country of origin.

        I did not mean to suggest that “repatriation” was exclusive to POWs, and I apologize if I gave that impression. I meant to distinguish between judicial and non-judicial.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        4 days ago

        POWs do not need to be charged with a crime. Indeed, under international treaties and laws governing armed conflict, POWs generally can’t be criminally charged for simply participating in hostilities.

        They can be held without charge until the conclusion of hostilities. They are not entitled to the protections afforded to the accused, because they are not accused. They are not entitled to access to the criminal justice system.

        By describing them as “invaders”, he is suggesting that immigrants be treated as enemy combatants.

  • d-RLY?@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    Maybe the US should take back the US members of ISIS that have been left (along with the people from the other nations that joined ISIS) for the Kurds to keep.

    • reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      Well you see, we have long and storied history of fucking over the Kurds. You wouldn’t want to tarnish that record would you?

  • Thoven@lemdro.id
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    3 days ago

    Even after all these years, I physically cringe every time I read “ReTruths”

    • 3dmvr@lemm.ee
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      5 days ago

      A lot of these actually are criminals why should we have to keep them?

      • Snowclone@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        It’s really simple if you have a basic, or very tiny, ability to think about it for two seconds. Let’s see if I can help. Criminals being deported are a huge problem for any receiving county, you see, they often don’t have any legal pretext to imprison or arrest them, if they committed crimes in anther nation, it’s unlikely the can collect evidence, or call witnesses to a legal process, also, it’s quite rare to have laws that apply to actions that occurred outside all legaly boundaries. It’s it illegal if an American goes to a county they don’t have documentation to be in, then commit crimes outside the US against other people without any way for the US to detect or prove these actions? So if Colombia has an American who kills dozens of people in their country, and is charged and sentanced to life without parole, and then the decide YEARS after the fact to put them on a plane to LAX and throw them off the plane with no other effort, do you want to let that plane land? That’s fucking insane. The solution to this problem already exists. Instead of being a fascist stupid fuck, you can create an extradition process where we can accept the Colombian legal process and transfer them ourselves to a US prison without dumping serial killers at an airport on their own.

        Being a threatening authoritarian isn’t solving this problem, and thinking every country in the world will simply accept people who have been convicted an sentanced in another nation is fucking stupid. And thinking they can’t manage to exist outside US economic good will it’s also stupid. If he think burning every ally in Latin America is going to hurt them more than us, he’s as dumb as everyone already knows.

      • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        actually are criminals

        Where was this disdain for criminals at voting time?

      • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        5 days ago

        Yeah, why shouldn’t we send all Republicans to another country? Or how about those criminals guilty of being Jewish, or black, or gay? Or how about the crime of “looking too Mexican,” like the US did to US citizens during Operations Wetback 1 & 2.

        Also, love how you even say “some of them are criminals,” not all of them. Meaning that you’re okay with gathering up some amount of innocent people and sending them to a different country with nothing more than the clothes on their backs.

        • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          And let’s get this clear, sending someone back to their “home” country without a plan or an actual home to go to should be a criminal act. These people are often productive members of US society who pay more taxes than Aotus. They already have homes and family in the US.

          This is beyond despicable and crosses into the the realm of pure evil.

      • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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        5 days ago

        Ah yes, because criminals are subhumans who should be exterminated like the cockroaches they are. And if we can’t take the trash out back like we should we can at least make it not our problem and make sure the cockroaches aren’t in our backyard. That’s what you’re saying right?

      • gibmiser@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        We don’t actually know what is going on. We had a system that favored protections for people presumed innocent until proven guilty.

        Now Trump is moving so fast with a process that is not transparent and a rhetoric that is hostile and unsympathetic towards all immigrants. People are understandably suspicious that the immigrants were given a fair chance to defend their legal presence in the USA.

        Shit, I won’t be surprised when legal us born citizens get deported in a mix up.

        • halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          Shit, I won’t be surprised when legal us born citizens get deported in a mix up.

          They’re already rounding up native Americans in these groups. It’s only a matter of time until they start deporting randomly to other countries because ICE was already an incompetent organization and has done that previously numerous times, speeding things up just means more fuckups. Which is of course, the plan. Because it’s not about illegals, or immigrants, it’s about non-whites.

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        5 days ago

        Basically nobody opposes deporting actual criminals (not political crimes). The problem is that it isn’t the cartel members and bank robbers who get rounded up when a factory is raided. And the mother fleeing persecution is treated the same as the drug kingpin.

        • 3dmvr@lemm.ee
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          5 days ago

          You’re asssuming they got mothers on this specific flight? I’ve seen nothing about innocents in this flight being posted, are these not straight up criminals on this flight? Can you show me articles I cant find any

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          Basically nobody opposes deporting actual criminals

          Deportation as a mechanism of punishment for state and federal crimes is generally bad policy. It is excessively draconian (it effectively renders them homeless, unemployed, and indefinitely denied their family and friends for… what? Too many parking tickets? Working construction without a license? Illegally camping?) for some. And entirely too lenient (deporting hardened criminals and cartel leaders like serial rapists or murderers effectively guarantees their release in states that can’t afford to jail them) for others.

          That’s why we’ll often extradite gang leaders into the US from overseas, when the crimes are severe enough. Its also why “sanctuary cities” regularly look the other way for petty offenses in order to avoid the mass economic disruption of ICE interference in municipal matters.

          Injecting immigration penalties into the civil justice system fucks with all the basic functions of local courts and prosecutors. It raises the stakes on minor offenses and gives the worst offenders a get-out-of-jail-free card.

          All that is assuming you even have somewhere to send undocumented criminals. For people who are functionally stateless - migrants who came over as children without papers, refugees from countries that cannot repatriate them or effectively no longer exist, Native Americans who the Feds don’t want to recognize as legal US residents - the ability to deport is little more than Penal Transportation. Nevermind how it routinely violates the 5th and 8th amendment, it mostly just means bribing a small, bankrupt satrap of the US to accept planeloads of random people, often without so much as a proper conviction.

          • vfreire85@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            it effectively renders them homeless, unemployed, and indefinitely denied their family and friends for… what? Too many parking tickets? Working construction without a license? Illegally camping?

            the u, s and a are actually deporting people over misdemeanors?

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        Because we’re not entitled to force some other country to take them!

        WTF did you think the answer was‽

      • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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        5 days ago

        Stop using that label as an excuse to treat people as subhuman.

        The state is rounding up people en masse and shipping them off to a foreign country. This process took a week. Due process is not present. This is some straight-up Nazi shit, and if you can’t at least mutter “fuck that,” then please shut up.

  • randon31415@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    If they won’t take them, maybe we could put all these Columbians in some sort of District. A District of Columbia filled with criminals. Wait, we already have that.

  • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Look, I know that immigration is a contentious issue, but sanctioning a country for not repatriating its citizens is a disproportionate response. Trump and Co. are really obsessed with immigration to even do this. It says a lot what values they have.

      • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        Yeah, I just saw the news that Colombia gave in.

        Trump is going all in. He’s reverting to the 19th century way of strong arming other countries over petty things. He’s reviving the old-school capitalist imperialism.

    • Treczoks@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Are those people really Columbian citizens? I would not put it past Trump to just command ICE to land the next plane full of “somehow latin looking people” somewhere south of the border.

    • qaz@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      He does that to strongarm companies into complying, because it works. It’s also setting an example for other countries to cooperate.

      • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        I suppose, but we’re talking about international diplomacy. And a modern one at that.

        Trump’s strong arming sounds so 19th century though. His open threat of taking Panama canal, Canada, Greenland, and renaming the Gulf of Mexico is so manifest destiny.

        • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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          4 days ago

          Trump’s strong arming sounds so 19th century though

          20th century too! If a government didn’t do what we wanted them to do, we just couped their government, and installed a dictator.

          I mean, how do you think Sadaam Hussein got into power?

  • NuraShiny [any]@hexbear.net
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    5 days ago

    He didn’t quite stick the landing on his “destroy the US empire” speedrun last term, but he wasn’t idle over the last 4 years and has come out the gate with a strong strategy this time around!

    • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      How does this destroy the US empire? It worked, Colombia caved within minutes.

      • Khoryphos [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        5 days ago

        Not by itself, but it’s representative of his overreaction to every little perceived slight against him. Correct me if I’m wrong; it’s standard to send and receive civilian planes for returning migrants. Colombia does not want its citizens being treated like criminals, detained aboard military aircraft. US media is declaring victory for Trump on a technicality. If this is all it takes for him to completely fill his diaper, he’s going to drone strike the first country to follow through with retaliatory tariffs.

        • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          They are criminals, because they were here illegally. It would be different if they were legal migrants, but they’re not.

          And it wasn’t an overreaction, it was a warning, meant to bend Colombia’s will. And it worked, immediately.

    • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      His base see it as him punishing Columbia and they’ll later be surprised at how much some things cost and blame liberals for it.

      • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        You’re behind the news. Colombia caved within minutes. No tariffs. The idea was to push them to take their citizens back, and it worked.

        • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          Once again the orange toddler throws a tantrum and gets his way.

          His cult is right about one thing - he gets shit done. It’s horrible shit, but he gets it done.

          • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            If you count spreading shit all over the walls getting stuff done then sure. Personally, I think he is just making a smelly mess.

            • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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              4 days ago

              Right now it seems he’s getting anything he wants. (gestures at OP) I hope there’s an end to that, but until then, yeah, I must angrily conclude, dude gets shit done. (Using the most reprehensible methods, and with shitty outcomes, but that’s what his base voted for, so I’m quite sure they have few complaints right now.)

              • Doomsider@lemmy.world
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                4 days ago

                And I will keep pointing out that getting shit done is not fucking shit up and making things worse. That is just making a shitty mess.

                I don’t care for the opinions of his supporters mainly because they have no real opinions. One Trumper I ran into today said good thing Drump is a making Federal workers go back to work because they are waiting on their SSD determination.

                You can’t make this level of brain dead up.

        • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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          4 days ago

          It was never about not accepting them. It was about them being treated with human dignity on the way there.

  • sunglocto@lemmy.zip
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    5 days ago

    Seems like Trump’s strategy is to now bully countries into getting what they want. "I want them out!!! I want Canada!!! I want Greenland!!!

    He’s basically the equivalent of the kid that flips over the monopoly table when someone bought a property before him.

    • Tangentism@lemmy.ml
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      4 days ago

      He literally is a petulant spoilt brat nappy wearing trust fund kid with unresolved daddy issues.

      • Petter1@lemm.ee
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        5 days ago

        That is the only logical step. You can’t make deals with someone who throws you under the bus at the next opportunity 🤷🏻

      • ryper@lemmy.ca
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        4 days ago

        They should start now. Countries should cut off trading with the US once Trump starts making threats in their direction, instead of waiting for him to make up his mind and do something. He’s too used to there not being any consequences.

        • tiredturtle@lemmy.ml
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          4 days ago

          It’s a good idea and countries started that with Russia though it’s still continuing. USA would just follow that model

        • folaht@lemmy.ml
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          4 days ago

          Won’t happen. EU is designed to serve the US, but we’ll see countries breaking off and (re)uniting with Russia.

          • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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            3 days ago

            The problem with that is that anti-Russian sentiment is highest in the East, so there’s no way they will break off.

            Also Russia is not China, they barely have anything to give in a trade relationship. Also, the Ukraine invasion is scrounging up bad memories in most of the member states, so there’s that.

            In Hungary, arguably the country closest ideologically to Russia, EU membership has had a consistent 70-80% approval. They won’t break off.

            Also, the EU is designed to protect EU business interests against international ones, so they will go where the money is, and under Trump, that may cease to be the US.

            • folaht@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              It’s highest in the North-East, lowest in the South East.

              There’s currently no direct land connection between Russia and Moldava/Slovakia/Romania/Hungary,
              and without it, there’s no potential protection.
              Georgia is already slowly turning around.

              Russia is an ally of China. What they have to give is the same as the EU (Germany) has to give with the US as their ally.

              So far the EU has done everything in power to not protect EU business interests and favor US business interests over anything else.

              • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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                1 day ago

                Are you from the Eastern EU?

                It’s not like that. The EU invests insane, Marshall-plan amounts of money into its Eastern member states, and it very visibly goes into infrastructure. Even stuff that is stolen by corruption is just money that goes into shit nobody needs, but still gets.

                Every second playgorund, every motorway and new line of rail, every scientific lab and every second pub has a big-ass sign next to it saying “Built for a kajillion Euros by the EU”.

                Relations with the US are also independent from relations to Germany/France/the EU, especially since the US doesn’t like to deal with the entire EU at once, since they can’t flex their muscles as much. The US also doesn’t really understand it, look at the new chip restrictions cutting the free market zone in half. All that also goes for China by the way.

                Russia is simply incapable of giving a better deal than the EU. It can’t afford and is not credible to even want to spend as much as the EU. Also, Estonian, Hungarian, Bulgarian and Polish are official languages in Brussels, would they also be in Moscow? It’s just not comparable. And nobody needs Russia to trade with China. In fact, the big BnR rail line China/Serbia/Hungary is doing - the one that sparked the current protests that might mean the fall of the Russia/China aligned Serbian government - specifically avoids Russia. Most of current Chinese trade actually is mediated by the Netherlands and Romania/Bulgaria.

                All I’m saying is that from the Eastern European viewpoint, if the EU/US and China/Russia are both a bundle deal - I believe they are not - then everyone will choose the one that doesn’t have Russia in it. If it’s not, the US and China are not necessarily different as a trading partner.