Summary
Elon Musk called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme” on “The Joe Rogan Experience,” claiming it’s unsustainable due to long-term obligations exceeding tax revenue.
Critics, including Sen. Bernie Sanders, accused him of pushing privatization to benefit the wealthy. Musk also made false claims about Social Security mispayments.
His comments come amid looming Social Security cuts and restructuring. The Social Security Administration warns of potential fund shortages by 2035.
Democrats advocate for raising the tax cap on high earners to strengthen the program.
Elon Musk called Social Security a “Ponzi scheme” on “The Joe Rogan Experience,” claiming it’s unsustainable due to long-term obligations exceeding tax revenue.
Being a Ponzi scheme requires fraud. In a Ponzi scheme, the fraudster fraudulently claims that an investor is making a larger return than he is, then – for a while – pays him back from future investments from other investors. It is intrinsically unsustainable.
Social Security isn’t fraudulent. It states explicitly that people contributing to Social Security are providing the funds to people who are withdrawing from it. It may not be sustainable to maintain a fixed level of benefits at a fixed level of taxation if the fertility rate is declining, but the lack of sustainability isn’t what makes a Ponzi scheme a Ponzi scheme. It’s the presence of fraud, which does not exist for Social Security.
I remember that the Social Security Administration website used to have a page up explicitly describing why it wasn’t a Ponzi scheme.
Social security is never going to “run out” it’s continuously funded, that’s how it works. America lacks curiosity and an attention span beyond a couple seconds. Conservatives loudly accuse (while projecting), demand detailed explanation and then immediately become disinterested in the explanation they demanded - mostly because they can’t comprehend the basic concepts and their eyes glaze over. For the most part they are unserious, homicidal and suicidal and just looking for an excuse to have an outburst.
Don’t let them leech your energy trying to explain or debate. They don’t know or care what you are talking about.
It can run out if the amount if money being distributed exceeds the amount of money being collected. Such as when there are a large number of retirees (the “baby boomer” generation is much larger then the one preceeding it) or fewer workers (eg. if immigration slows or birthrates drop).
The point is that it won’t. Your internet could turn off next month if you don’t pay your fucking bill… But you pay your FUCKING bill. There’s no validity in your position. It’s an OLD right wing propaganda talking point - you’re either ignorant of that or complicit in it. Either way, do better.
It’s basic economics, if our population declines (either because people have less babies or immigration declines; both of which are currently happening) there will be less money going in to social security. While that’s happening, the number of retirees is greatly increasing.
In terms of your internet service analogy, this is like losing your job at the same time your internet rates get raised. You can’t pay your bills if you don’t have any money.
It’s basic BAD FAITH economics. Your point about “less money going in” is a self fulfilling prophecy by the GOP - They dismantle finding sources for the social safety net programs actively and then loudly complain that those programs are doomed.
In the “America great again” years that the lead poisoned boomers are longing for, we had income tax for the highest earners around 90%. So Reagan, bushes and trump give out huge tax cuts to the wealthy, gut the IRS so that money isn’t coming in and then ignorant and/or deceptive little foot soldiers like yourself rush in to carry water for the lie and try to create fact through repetition. You are wrong, period, end of story. The only Epsom is of you ate being used and are unaware or if you are willingly perpetuating this bullshit in bad faith.
Your bad position is SO played out in fact, that here is a clip that is a decade old explaining how you are wrong and trying to prop up an old, tired lie. https://youtu.be/k3dK-z9F4C0?feature=shared
Shame on you, bud. You seem smart enough to know better.
You’re making a strawman argument. I never said social security couldn’t (or shouldn’t) be saved. Nor did I argue that the Republicans aren’t at fault for its problems. Obviously raising taxes to increase the amount of money going in to social security would fix the budget issues.
Your posts give a real “old man yelling at clouds” vibe
Your posts give a real “Publicly arguing technicalities for the sake of it in furtherance of the downfall of modern society on behalf of oligarchs with an end game to kill off poor people and refine their bodies into biodiesel” vibe.
You don’t seem to understand that your lack of that stated context of good or bad alongside your defense is very telling. Quit doing work for the bad guys, or if you continue, have the balls to openly count yourself among their ranks.
“My defense?” “The bad guys?” You’re being very adversarial, and I’m not sure why you keep trying to make me your enemy. Posting on Lemmy isn’t good for anything except venting, and if you want to be a keyboard warrior you should find a community where conservatives gather. You still won’t be doing anything productive, but at least Lemmy will be a little more peaceful.
Should have listened to Al Gore: Lockbox
What a different world we would be in if Florida didn’t fuck up in 2000
What a different world we would be in if
Florida didn’t fuck up in 2000jeb bush and the Supreme Court didn’t steal the election in 2000heck we would be better off vis a vis climate change if we made the push towards nuclear George HW Bush made in 1988. Doing nothing was the worst choice.
Had FL simply not allowed Jeb to chair the committee to elect his brother in FL…
We should make 10 nukes and retire all armed forces. Then we just tell the world… We got 10 solutions to your problem. And just focus on getting more of those nukes up in space. That should make enough money to pay for social security, back rubs and happy endings. Probably toss in some NPR and educational funding.
you would know
Fuck you, Incel King. Go eat your own shit and die.
It’s not a Ponzi Scheme when there’s nobody standing to profit you dumb fucking idiot fuck. It’s been getting funded for almost 100 years, and has only recently been under fire by assholes like you who accumulate wealth and remove it from being eligible for such a social safety net. Now you’re worried we’re coming for yours and Rogan’s money to fund it, and we will.
Y’all need to stop listening to these morons pal around and podcasts. They mean to harm you and your families, and take away the already middling social programs that benefit you, not them.
It’s not just recently, conservatives have been threatening social security for decades.
Recently as in the last few decades. Reagan pretty much started all this bullshit, and it’s been a tug of war since.
“If I’m not getting rich off it, someone else is.”
That’s how conservatives, from the rich to the poor, see the world.
Only recently?
Biden attacked social security in the 90s.
Is it possible that every single day I wake up, open Lemmy and get new outraging bullshit from this fantastic duo? Where they get those insane ideas? Don’t they get tired? Go to play golf or so
Where they get those insane ideas?
They’re not new. The Reich Wing has been saying this for decades, ever since Reagan started taking an ax to the program.
Send that nazi back to South Africa
Better off being sent up to join Willzyx
Put that thing back where it came from or so help meeeee
Unfortunately US Republicans are Nazi’s. Another sad thing is our society is too stupid to see the similarities as well as afraid calling a spade a spade.
US Republicans are Nazi’s.
Who?
It’s one of the most popular social programs in American history. It’s also OUR FUCKING MONEY ELON.
Popular… except i have grown up being told that ss was something i paid into but would not be available for me.
Lol Bro doesn’t know what a Ponzi Scheme is
The entire stock market is basically a ponzi scheme.
Push pensions, 401k, 529, HSA money into one spot and then rug the whole market every few years.
He doesn’t know what almost anything really is, despite all the bullshit he spouts. He’s the human embodiment of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Oh, so SS is a ponzi scheme now? Well then, I hope you do something about that, Musk. And then I’d like my tens of thousands of dollars that were taken from my paycheck back, please. After all, if I paid into the system and I haven’t used any benefits yet since I’m not at retirement age, you should be able to pay me back after you seek recompense from all the “mispayments” going on, right?
This is the billionaire class trying to do a rug pull. Don’t believe their accusations of fraud and abuse, they’re doing anything they can except raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it. It’s your money. You paid faithfully into the system. If they mismanaged the funds by borrowing against it to fuel military quagmires all around the world, that’s a “them” problem. Hold the government accountable and do not let them cancel your retirement entitlements.
I understand what he is saying. It kinda looks like one at first glance, because contributions from current workers go first to pay current retirees.
But what he misses is that we did it that way on purpose. The end goal was to make Americans more secure as a country. Americans could work at their jobs and be confident that they would be taken care of in their old age by the younger generation as a whole, Americans taking care of each other. I understand that the money I pay in now is going to support my parents and their generation, and I really dont mind. We’ll see if these dimwits ruin it by the time I need it.
Everything with these MAGA idiots is zero-sum. If they are paying money to anyone, they need to be the ones getting the benefits from it, otherwise it is a “scam”. The problem with zero-sum is that there always have to be winners and losers. And if the people in power are always the winners, what does that make us?
I understand what he is saying. It kinda looks like one at first glance, because contributions from current workers go first to pay current retirees.
But that’s how private insurance and retirement plans work too. The only difference is that private ones also benefit some rich CEOs at the top who have a vested interest to not distribute the funds.
He is in charge of this debacle. He needs to give it more than a first glance
The existence of disability insurance (SSDI), in and of itself, is enough to refute this “ponzi scheme” bullshit.
There are people who have never paid a cent into Social Security, yet receive benefits.
Imagine that with an actual ponzi scheme… Instead of giving Peter’s money to Paul, you give it to Sally who’s paraplegic, can’t work, and has paid nothing into the fund.
Conservatives think the government should be run like a business. You’re not buying or selling anything, the point is to serve the people you fucks.
How should it be run, like a Keynesian, an MMT, a monetarist, something else?
MMT is how it’s currently run, and that’s fine if we didn’t schizophrenically fuck up that path every four years by trying to pretend taxes pay for spending like a business.
Realistically, though, the government should just distribute the resources necessary for life, utilizing whatever means necessary to obtain and redistribute those resources equally without harming anyone’s basic human rights.
Money, currency, etc is for trading with outside forces. That’s what it was developed for. Trade with people you don’t trust. For the majority of human history local economies ran entirely without currency being involved, with it only being needed for trade. It was fine, it was better locally.
We can even more easily implement a sharing or trust based local economy now that computers are a thing, and we can easily distribute and equalize necessary resources for the same reason.
Except then you couldn’t obtain capital, and couldn’t rent things. And without rent you can’t become obscenely rich. So we can’t have that.
Personally, I am starting to think a nation should have ‘internal’ and ‘external’ currencies. The latter is for engaging in trade between nations and corporations. The internal currency is just to optimize the supply and demand of things between citizens, corporations, and the government, but the income is fixed. This theoretically would prevent inflation, since income doesn’t change for even the most wealthiest members of society.
By doing it this way, the internal currency can have different rules and values from the exterior. What I have in mind is a ‘wealth band’ of sorts, using Universal Ranked Income to make income fixed for a job class. There can be absolute caps on wealth, at $100k for income, savings, and assets. Something like the following:
