Maybe installing a government run by neo-Nazis was a bad idea?
Why aren’t Americans shooting at ICE agents. It’s that what the 2nd amendment was for?
“We don’t have to show you anything,” one agent reportedly shot back when asked for ID or a warrant.
“The crowd was unruly,” police said in a statement, claiming several individuals “put their hands on federal agents and Worcester officers.”
There’s no reason to believe that they’re federal agents if they refuse to show ID. And there’s no law against putting your hands on gang members kidnapping one of your neighbors while impersonating federal agents. These dipshits are out of control and fucking stupid.
I’m just pleading for them to do this to the wrong set of people who take 2A seriously.
Man fuck what that orange fucking pile of shit turned my country into. I hope he dies bleeding from the eyeballs.
This is not okay, and it is not a product of the legal system. When the system fails the people, it’s up to the people to deny the system its power. Good on those neighbors getting involved and pushing back.
Joseph Petty call and write the mayor and demand all charges dropped and these people released.
https://www.worcesterma.gov/mayor
Do not stop.
Soooo those 2nd amendment rights are a joke? Guns were bought just to show off at the range and with buddies?
Trump and his cronies are gonna get your guns its not a matter of if but when.
Rise the fuck up.
Trump doesn’t need to come after guns. It’s pretty obvious at this point that nobody is using them or ever will. Americans may talk tough about guns but they aren’t a threat to the fascists.
I concur. Any portion of society that would have the will of resistance has been convinced that only fascists have guns therefore it’s the fascists that have all the guns.
Right, but he’s dismantling the constitution piece by piece its coming, not a matter of if but when
There has to be millions like me out there that are willing to fight I refuse to believe 200+ million Americans are gonna roll over.
So when you all gonna use all those guns you buy to defend yourself
The people opposed to ICE aren’t the ones that buy the guns.
I don’t think that’s correct. Plenty of us on the left have firearms, we just don’t make it our entire personality.
I’d very much like to see a similar study done more currently, but I can’t turn one up from my halfhearted looking around.
You are wholefully incorrect. There is a lot of people on both sides that own guns. America has more guns then it has people. Sooooo no.
America also has more cows than it has people, and lego is the largest tire manufacturer in the world. While true that some liberals also own guns, for example I am a liberal and I own a gun, I’m not sure how it’s relevant beyond that (admittedly) situationally self-evident truth. Gun culture is centered around, and the vast majority of firearms are owned by, conservatives.
That has been changing. We’re not buying them as fast but we’re buying them.
Do you have a source for that? I’ve been digging around some looking for information but other than the national exit polls (which removed the question more than a decade ago I guess?) I can’t find any credible studies on it. It would be reassuring (well, kind of…) were you right, but anecdotal evidence and all that
That’s a shame
What a cop out. Every citizen has the same access. For years you have had very good reason to arm and train yourselves. Your country is where it is because you all refuse to fight for it. Rather blame everything you can.
Mmmhm.
Once upon a time, in a distant land, a person arrived near a police vehicle while a crowd surrounding the vehicle was argumentative and loud. They dropped a few caltrops and nudged them under the wheels with their toe.
Once upon a time, in a distant land, a guy with a cordless drill disabled some police vehicles in a speed-run. Sadly they had no RC car to mount it on (note: some cleanliness, testing and engineering skills required) or they could have called it a “rig” and proclaimed “drill, baby, drill”.
The one story I read had the person doing those things leaving their phone at home and wearing things to shield their face. Some of the stories I’ve heard also include the main character putting a small rock in their shoe in order to alter their gait to avoid potential detection based on it.
Cool stories…
This reminds me of V for Vendetta
A people should not be afraid of it’s government, a government should be afraid of it’s people.
And when the government isn’t afraid ofbthe people, what then?
They should have attacked the
ICEgestapo agents.Melt the ICE.
That’s next.
Those who abjure violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.
People should start learning how to make thermite and how to immobilize vehicles.
It’s way simpler than that. Gather styrofoam, rags and glass bottles from the alleyways. Get you some gasoline. The rest is known well. All you need is a shopping cart and a container to hold gas. If you have doubts watch news footage of the citizen response in Ukraine to Russian invasion.
So um… what’re you gonna do with the thermite?
No seriously, I used to do aluminothermic welding, trust me when I say it’s an extremely frustrating substance to use. And on top of that, it is incredibly conspicuous. Unless you both know what you’re doing and what you’re doing can only be done by introducing a huge thermal mass (for example, screwing up a precision bearing surface on a piece of equipment. Note that you can’t really cut through material with thermite without using a burnout mold), there are way better ways to accomplish the task. It’s just not a great choice, and everything a theoretical citizen resistance would feasibly be doing could be done better, faster and safer (for you) with either some gasoline or bolt cutters…
Citizen sabotage was taught by the CIA as an effective way for insurgents in a country we wanted to topple to hurt their defensive and warmaking power.
The best tactic in this regard; incompetence.
Just get a job where you help them. But be bad at it.
Lose papers. Email things backwards. Leave messes. Pour the wrong chemicals in the wrong thing. Send messages on Monday instead of Friday. Spoil supplies by making them wet and letting them rot.
add journalists and random civilians to military operation group chats
Isn’t that a little too obvious though?
Good thing the enemy has already done half the work in this regard
A man of culture I see.
They won. They got exactly what they wanted, plus anybody who tried to intervene got arrested along the way. From the headline I thought it would be more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZcoXdZeabA . There’s still massive problems here and our version of ICE have got away with a lot but thankfully nowhere near this stage
It’s a start. People see others standing up, so they will, too, and it will grow. Eventually we will reach a tipping point.
We should praise the act of defiance, without regard for the outcome. They won this time, but not without a fight. Soon they will have a fight every time. Then they will have to choise between escalating, or finding a new strategy. Either way, they are being forced to react involuntarily.
It’s better that we’re all arrested rather than do nothing but watch.
But what if they made Internet posts about guillotines while they watched?
I completely agree and think you can’t arrest everyone but I don’t see that happening though. Look at the numbers on the street. If more people surrounded them so they could not physically leave, it might be different. What I see is a few brave people trying to stop them and not succeeding, and everyone else staying inside or filming from afar
That’s why guns exists and your right to use them also exists. The 2nd amendment has never been more important then now…last time it was in the 1860s…
There were more than 25 people on the scene protesting and asking for warrants etc. this was on very scant notice. I’d call that pretty decent turnout. Then there was a much larger march down the streets of Worcester. Read some of the independent reports. They corroborate and tell an aligned narrative.
Yep cause the moment they arrest everyone the leeches will die like every other fucking parasite without a host.
“We don’t have to show you anything,” one agent reportedly shot back when asked for ID or a warrant.
Actually, yea. You do. Or its just assault and kidnapping. Official paperwork is not privileged or secret. That idiot should be fired along with his chain of command.
Fired? This guy will be promoted. Shake your head. Fight back.
Am I allowed to shoot in self defense if this happens in a stand your ground state?
Yes. Will the court decide in your favor? Who knows, but I’d wager probably not. It’s better to try it and find out then let this happen though, or probably a better idea would be to get out ASAP and try to become a ghost if possible. Eventually this won’t be tolerated, but people need to see others stand up before they will usually.
Helpful neighbor: “No, I’m with ICE and I’m arresting you motherfuckers.”
*We all get to pretend to be ICE or whatever the fuck if there’s no requirement to prove who you are
Actually no. https://newrepublic.com/post/194442/trump-doj-memo-ice-arrest-search-warrant
Civil liberties have already been suspended
Just because Marmalade Mussolini or his DOJ wrote a memo doesn’t make it legal. The use of the Alien Enemies Act is already highly contested in federal court. (It remains to be seen if/when courts will enforce their rulings, but just today a Tufts University student was released from ICE custody as a result of a judge’s ruling.)
Actually, yea. You do
For now.
No. They do no matter what. Once they tread on the Fourth the grumblings about resistance, rebellion, or revolt become a legal defense of our Constitutional rights. These people immediately get “promoted” and become a demest8c threat to the Constitution. It would then become open hunting season on ICE, with defending the Constitution becoming the legal defense. The only reason it hasn’t happened yet is because ICE is targeting weak willed areas. They are moving fast and they also happen to be getting a large percentage of illegals with only occasional “mistakes”.
We don’t know if they’re actually getting any “illegals”
There’s a court case right now. He’s suing the ability of federal judges to make essentially precedence matter.
If he wins this case in the Supreme Court, All executive orders are law until they are challenged in court, and if one person wins a judgment, It will have zero effect on other like cases.
So the playbook is he writes an executive order that ice doesn’t need to show warrants, ice doesn’t show warrant, each individual that is f***** over by this executive order has to take it to court individually, assuming they’re not already in a South American prison.
We’re a couple of judgments away from absolute dictatorship.
It’s also reported that Trump’s people are working on suspending habeas corpus. This would remove your right to challenge your arbitrary imprisonment in court. So they will be able to disappear anyone, forever, with no reason and no legal recourse. Effectively Trump will then be an absolute dictator.
Habeas corpus (/ˈheɪbiəs ˈkɔːrpəs/ ⓘ; from Medieval Latin, lit. ‘you should have the body’) is a legal procedure by which a report can be made to a court alleging the unlawful detention or imprisonment of an individual, and requesting that the court order the individual’s custodian (usually a prison official) to bring the prisoner to court, to determine whether their detention is lawful. Relief, when available, is generally governed by equitable principles.
One of the few criticisms of Lincoln is that he suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. I expect that the MAGA Nazis will be invoking Lincoln’s name in this regard. They love to claim that they are the “Party of Lincoln,” and therefore he would support their treason.
They can make whatever laws they want. This is a constitutional matter. It can only be changed by a 2/3s majority vote of the house and senate.
ICE can say they don’t need a warrant. Fuck them up if they don’t have one … a warrant is required.
The president can say ICE doesnt need a warrant … fuck him, he doesn’t have the authority … they do.
The Supreme Court can say ICE doesnt need a warrant … fuck them, they do not have the authority … a warrant is still needed.
Source: The Constitution
If nothing physically stops them from doing what they say they can do, then they can do it, and the constitution is meaningless. This is what is happening, they are proving the constitution is meaningless.
The Constitution is essentially enforced by the Honor System, which is easily ignored by people who not only have no honor, but consider it a weakness that should be ruthlessly exploited. A petson with ethics and integrity can be easily bested by someone who ddoesn’t respect those qualities.
Eventually ICE will stumble upon someone with a strong interest in the Second Amendment and get themselves physically stopped. Because ICE’s actions are unconstitutional they will be considered illegal, thus whatever is done to stop them will be legal.
It is only a matter of time and this story will be in the news. MAGA thinks they can tread upon the Constitution, but the Constitution lays coiled and has sharp fangs.
The Constitution only has meaning because you all say it has meaning. All of its enforcement comes down to the Executive branch. Congress doesn’t have enforcers, the Judiciary doesn’t have enforcers. Systematically, all of the people in the Executive branch that would stop this are being forced out. The people in power have decided the Constitution has no meaning, and it’s too late to stop them. Killing some ICE agents is what they want so they have the justification to declare martial law and subjugate the entire country by force.
I applaud your optimism. But anyone resisting ICE with armed force will be killed by a SWAT team and immediately branded a terrorist by all the media.
I’m curious. Do they have toshow it to bystanders? To the person they are arresting sure. And I would think to family of that person… but maybe not. I doubt they have to show it to randos on the street. But, I think it is safe to assume they didn’t have it. Even if they did, thier history means they have blown any credibility on that front. As for ID. I do wonder about that. Anyone know the actual laws?
If they are expecting you to follow some sort of directive they do.
Based
without showing a warrant
I’m so tired of the legalist caveat, implying a Trump judge rubber stamping warrants for these gestapo shits would have made kidnapping and torturing a woman and her infant child acceptable.
We also need to stop using the word “arrest” when it comes to ICE. As you said, these are kidnappings.
But it does highlight that any random brute could put on a mask and do this with no authorization whatsoever. It’s a fundamental human-rights and rule-of-law breakdown to fail to present a warrant. I agree that a warrant doesn’t ethically make the arrests anything short of monstrous, though. That kind of legalist can suck eggs.
But it does highlight that any random brute could put on a mask and do this with no authorization whatsoever
I believe this a part of the plan.
The war for ethics has been lost decades ago. Legality is fickle and often unjust but it’s all that people have at this point.
