• gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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    2 days ago

    I genuinely do not consider that to be controversial.

    Fascists should be afraid for their safety, as a general rule. When they’re not, it’s a problem. As we can see now.

    • Wilco@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      Agreed, these are masked criminals and we have the right to share who they are.

      • 5too@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        They’re also ostensibly public employees. ICE is not a spy organization, we should know who they are

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        And even if they weren’t criminals, they’re claiming to be law enforcement which normally requires you to identify yourself.

    • IninewCrow@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      There’s a reason why they hide their faces and want to hide their identities … they know what they are doing is wrong. They’re gambling on the idea that if their fascist government stays in place, they’ll be rewarded … but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society if no one knows who they are.

      If what they are doing is justified, moral and can be easily defended, then they would have no need to hide themselves.

      • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society of no one knows who they are.

        It should be trivial for a theoretical subsequent competent government to identify these people, but I’ve just about lost all hope that anyone will face consequences for doing fascist shit.

        • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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          1 day ago

          They should be allowed to grow and change like anyone else. This thread is so full of hate I dont know how anyone here thinks they are an example of a “good” citizen.

          If any of y’all ran the government, we would be so much worse off right now.

    • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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      1 day ago

      For the record, fascists will always project that they are afraid for their safety. Playing the victim is how they gain power. When one of them is targeted, it doesn’t create fear to dissuade the rest, it empowers them to play it up for support.

        • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          As long as you accept that you are playing into their strategy to instigate a civil war which they’ve been working toward years, if not decades, sure.

          Alternatively, we could opt to listen to experts on fascism, recognize the systemic issues that give rise to it (like economic instability and wealth inequality), make a concerted effort to address those concerns, win over the working class which the left has neglected for the last 60 years, and bring the temperature down for centrists thereby cutting off the primary weapon of fascism…

          But we’ll probably do it the dumb way.

          Edit: for the record, I’m fully convinced there are psyops going on here on Lemmy, and the people like you trying to push us further toward violence and civil unrest are either them, or useful idiots helping them.

          • WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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            16 hours ago

            It already is a civil war. One side thinks having the moral high ground means not having to show up.

            What you’re suggesting is a shaky strategy for fighting standard GOP misbehavior two, three decades ago. Wake up and look around.

            • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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              15 hours ago

              I’m not trying to be mean, but I do think you need to hear this: touch grass. This is a big deal to Americans, but it’s pretty much politics as usual for like 70% of the world. Recognize that the fact that we get to think it’s a big deal is part of our entitlement.

              I get it, trump is testing limits, he’s got ICE rounding people up, he’s trying to deploy the military into states, he’s painting innocents as terrorists. And I’m telling you, it’s not popular. He doesn’t have the support to pull this off, he’s doing what he’s doing not because he’s strong but because he’s weak, desperate, and he knows it.

              Right now, he desperately wants this to devolve into violence, because like any demagogue, he can’t be a functional politician, he can only fight invisible enemies. He’s trying to provoke a war in time for midterms. Don’t give him what he wants. Stand united in peace with the vast majority of people who don’t want this to continue.

              • WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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                10 hours ago

                MAGA is gaining ground against you every fucking day and has been for years with zero opposition.

                People like you are the reason.

                “I’m not trying to be mean.” 🤣 of course you’re not- you’re not capable of it. If you were, you might have a shot at being useful. I promise you nobody is horribly hurt by milquetoast “mean words” from a coward who won’t lift a finger to stop his neighbors from being kidnapped.

                • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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                  4 hours ago

                  First off, Trump is one thing, but MAGA is losing ground. Source. As soon as trump entered office, the MAGA movement stalled and has started trending back down. This is because he’s been given the every lever, and as expected, he’s botching it.

                  Second, you’re interpreting what I’m saying in the way you want to hear it. Absolutely go protest, get naked and stand in front of a tank, douse yourself in oil and set yourself aflame on the whitehouse lawn, sound the alarm so that everyone hears through all the noise. And like always: defend yourself and those around you from criminals using whatever means you have.

                  But we are at the ideal time to appeal to MAGA. Look at all the Republicans breaking from him over the shutdown. MAGA is to the right what Occupy WallSt was to the youth before the rich steered it back to a left/right old/young thing. There are systemic problems, and people are seeing that targeting the “woke” isn’t going to solve it. They are soon going to be forced to demand working solutions. He can only blame Biden for so long.

                  Of course, nothing i say will convince some people. There are a class of horny idiots who desperately need to act on their frail emotions, give trump what he wants, and go out in the streets with MAGA to aggressively suck each other off. You are free to be in that group if you want, but know that you’re not helping anyone but yourself and the fascist movement. (Of course you and I both know that the only fingers you’re lifting are from your keyboard to downvote someone you disagree with 🤣).

          • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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            21 hours ago

            We cannot address any of the root causes of fascism while fascists control all the levers of power.

            • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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              21 hours ago

              The fact that we’re able to have this conversation means we still have the power that matters most. And the fact that they hold all political offices means they get blamed for any unrest. It’s why every incumbent in every election in the world in 2024 lost support, and it’s why trump is so afraid of the midterms.

              Meanwhile, Bernie and AOC are holding successful rallies in southern states, and local candidates like Graham Platner are gaining traction. The right has spent decades shifting blame away from the rich, and it seems people are finally getting wise to it. It sucks that they had to see how bad it could get with their own eyes before figuring it out, but that’s just how humanity works, it seems.

    • VieuxQueb@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      You got it, if your job is to terrify and kidnap people, you should also be at least afraid for your life !

    • foggy@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Way more controversial that my tax dollars.oay people that are trying to conceal their identities…?

      Like surely. I don’t see an argument between clandestine tax dollars thugs and a desire to clarify that clandestine bullshit.

    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      ICE agents arent fascists. They are americans who want a high paying job. Its an awful job and only barely worth it with a six figure salary. If people took more of a stand against working there, they would raise the wages until people want to.

      In a way its a good thing these people are mostly doing it for money, which won’t much matter in a civil war.

      • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        You are clearly not paying attention to the crazy hiring spree ICE is doing, and the ads they’re posting to drive it, or the sort of people that they’re hiring, or their predominant beliefs.

        Willful ignorance is a hell of a drug.

        • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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          1 day ago

          I know what they are doing, and I know the type of people working there. They are not unforgivable or unredeemable, as much as it makes you feel good to say so.

          Lemmy and reddit both have a huge bias towards black and white thinking, which I think is shortsighted and immature.

          • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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            1 day ago

            If a fascist wants to become not a fascist, good for them, and yes, they should be embraced for turning their backs on that insanity.

            That absolutely does not mean that fascists should be treated with kids gloves, or given the benefit of the doubt. Ever.

            You get empathy when you walk away from that shit. Not before.

            • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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              1 day ago

              I simply dont think we should make them and their families scared to live in their homes. Thats not the point of all this, and its not going to change anyone’s mind.

              I will not condone what ia being done but I’m also not going to condemn the people doing it.

              • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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                1 day ago

                It must be pointed out that a lot of the people doing it, especially recently, are racist, fascist assholes. So yeah, I’m absolutely going to condemn the people doing it. And I think your attempt to morally fence-sit on that topic is at best comically naïve, and at worst deeply disingenuous.

      • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        ICE agents arent fascists.

        How did you decide that? All polling disagrees with you, so what do you know that we don’t?

        • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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          1 day ago

          Yeah its unfortunate that people are susceptible to making actions against their own values. Fortunately people never stay the same and constantly grow and change.

            • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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              1 day ago

              Well I guess you just have never made a mistake in your life. Good for you, goodest boy/girl. I hope you get many pats on the head.

      • CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Billionaires are just following the american dream, they found a high paying job is all. Its not their fault they did evil things along the way!

        Come on y’all, let’s not pick on the poor fascists!

            • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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              1 day ago

              I dont think you know what bad faith means. Its definitely not when you think someones contradicted themselves.

              I asked who we were talking about again because this post and conversation is about ICE agents, not billionaires.

              Unless there are some billionaires larping as ICE agents, then I dont see how thats relevant, and I dont care to start off on some tangent for no reason.

              If you think I’m wrong though feel free to explain why.