- They help individuals channel their frustration, isolation and desperation
- They are a show of strength
- They typically lead to more political involvement
- They have already produced wins
- They must remain nonviolent to be effective
- They must be in small towns in the heartland, not just big coastal cities
Find one near you at nokings.org
This post uses a gift link, but some people do seem to be prompted to register. I can’t change SF Chronicle policy about that. They also have a history of sending lawyers after people who post archive.today links to their articles, so whatever you do, don’t plug the URL into that site.
Some months ago I was giving a coworker shit for not doing much of anything. No protests. No volunteering. No donations. Just works his mid six figure job, plays video games, and dates his works-at-google girlfriend. He admitted maybe he could do more. I said I could nag him the next time a big protest happened. He said sure.
Well, I messaged him with a quote from that conversation. He was like “oh it’s Saturday?” And then no further responses until I followed up a day later. He’s not going to do anything.
The other guys from that group also don’t do anything.
Something about rich white straight (-passing) men comfortably just keeping their heads down and not even doing a half assed minimum bothers me.
But I guess there’s nothing to be done. I’ll be doing my best.
Get a woman in the group to invite spouses and girlfriends. The men will mostly follow.
A handful will decide they like cybertrucks more than sex
Yes.
Now get out there.
I’ll be there tomorrow with the frog guys!
They are empty vessels/pressure release valves provided by the oligarchy to prevent organic protest from rising that would actually threaten their existence.
Actually, they are extremely effective methods to put flyers in hands. It’s where people sign up for mutual aid groups or find union advocates
It’s a networking event. The protest aspect is just to pump up the energy and set the theme for the event. This is how you turn liberals into leftists, and connect them with local organizations.
I feel like both are true. They are pressure releases that keep fast and dramatic change from occurring and the elites do prefer we do polite protests instead of the guillotines we should be building.
But they are definitely great for turning libs into leftists and networking. They have produced some benefits.
How come one side apparently MUST remain nonviolent but not the other
Just look how stupid the administration is sending troops to Portland because all of the “violence”. If Portland was more violent then they could carry the narrative rather than people dressed up in costumes. People will remember the frogs and the absurdity of the situation.
They don’t have to, but data shows over and over that non violent ones more often end to being more successful at regime change.
Benefits for the non violent:
- more people are willing to join protests
- much harder to use force to squash protesters (they can still try, but that often motivates more people to join, that is what for example happened in Euromaidan)
- it is much harder to frame that those protesters are there to hurt ordinary people
- sends signal for good people in power to do the right thing and that we have their back
- validates people that they aren’t alone and that it is a lot of us
We actually have more power than them, they only succeed if we get scared and think there’s nothing we can do. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I’ve seen many statements to that effect. I have not seen political science studies that support it though.
Because there is none. The state always preaches nonviolence to keep us passive and not a threat to the status quo. They want peaceful from us but subject the working class to violence with every action.
Not much history to support it either.
Solidarity movement in Poland was a peaceful protest and last to end of the communism there.
Color revolution (including orange revolution in Ukraine)
Euromaidan (it was peaceful, although the government wasn’t).
Statistically peaceful protests succeed 53% of the violent ones succeed 26%
Note though it isn’t just showing up one day and be done, it’s about having a sustained protest with at least 3.5% of population involved.
Because of propaganda and state power. It’s not a symmetrical conflict.
It certainly isn’t
Basically, if we start shooting, that will result in a military response, and the US military is really good at massacres.
“Give me liberty or give me 40 more years of wage slaving consumerism and hoping my demographic isn’t next”
Not sure if you are aware but the military are already responding
They are fucking begging for violence to break out so they can start a massacre. They’re doing some heinous shit. It can get infinitely worse.
Has to be better than letting them slowly boil the frogs
What we want is to create a broad understanding of popular support for antifascism so that the military takes the side of the people. A huge public rally is part of that
Im aware. The Guard did in a few Republican-controlled places last time too. But what they did was stand around instead of massacring the crowds. And that’s a good place to bem
There’s an Adam Friedland Show episode where he pitches Richard Kind on a movie about the story of The First Jew to die in the Holocaust. And its just a guy complaining about how long he’s been waiting to take a shower.
That’s the energy a lot of these protests give.
The Germans didn’t have any kind of huge protest movement. They executed people for doing things like holding a private dinner in honor of Einstein.
Big protests are a key part of how we avoid that situation.
The Germans didn’t have any kind of huge protest movement.
That’s well before the Nazis had power
Both should, one does. Don’t sink to their level.
“When they go low we go high” got us Donald Trump
If your country doesn’t sink to their level soon you won’t have the right to protest them any longer
Until when? The world wars are clear evidence that eventually violence is the correct response.
Where’s the line?
For me there is no line. I do not have a military super power at my disposal.
If the US military is on one side of the violence, there is no force on earth I’m aware of to counter that.
We have to protest peacefully and in larger numbers to be sure if that time comes, they are on our side.
You’re 98% of the way there.
There is only one force on earth that can counter the US military, and that is the US citizenry.
Despite how little power people think they have, the citizens of the united states in large enough numbers can stop the US military dead in it’s tracks. Preferably through democratic means, but they could also do it physically if they wanted to.
Americans outnumber their military by over 100 to 1, and with enough cultural pushback, you’d see a lot of those military members resigning, refusing orders, or just strait up walking out on top of that.
A general strike that lasts a month will stop all of this nonsense.
Wasn’t that long ago in the evolutionary timeline that humans diverged from sheep. For safety reasons we still want to be part of the biggest flock. Seeing huge numbers of people at protests stirs something in our DNA.
Fuck yeah they do, see you there comrades
See you out there folks!
I’d love for protests to have wins, someone teaches what they are.
What i see: politicians fervently getting in photo op moments vs fixing this cluster fuck w living in. I swear every dem wants to get arrested for the gram…while I actually need them to unify on voting agendas.
They typically lead to more political involvement
Only because people have started to become affected personally by government policies. Many of those who voted for Trump regret are also in No Kings protest.
I’ll happily welcome anybody who flips because they recognize how awful Republican policy is. That’s important if we are going to have a durable majority
Thats why these parades will do nothing, they are ‘protesting’ a cog in the machine instead of the machine. Our current state didnt form in a vacuum over the last few years, its been building for decades. With Democrats being as complicit in its rise as Republicans.
Republican policy has always been awful but these people thought it will only affect certain groups until they got affected.
“we’re experts, we studied administrations where the government was comprised of people that gave at least 1/3 of a fuck what the population thought so naturally my opinion can be applied to an administration that gives absolutely no fucks whatsoever about the population.”
They care enough that they’re trying to talk it down. Having a big chunk of the population turn out to tell off a dictator is a key step in how they lose power
Dr. King’s policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That’s very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none.
Kwame Ture
I don’t think they are concerned about it in the slightest as far as it making them consider changing anything for the positive, they’re utilizing it as a way to brainwash the base into believing that America is full of traitors so they’re much more accepting of the increase in political persecution they’re going to push towards.
The brainwashing is much harder when its your own community turning out
Um yes, what kind of stupid question is that?
Well when the news is telling you symbolic actions are effective, doesn’t that mean the liberals have already accomplished their symbolic goals? I’m sure you are all quite satisfied with the results, but it has not stopped a single raid so far. You need to intimidate ICE, not “expose them as hypocrites”. That is what the ONLY people who have stopped raids have done. But if you weren’t willing to do it under Biden, why would you start now? I have zero confidence in these movements.
Symbolic actions lead to practical ones — My friend group has been canvassing for Yes on California Prop. 50. Making popular support visible gets more people on your side, so we are all taking a couple hours to attend the rallly.
Symbolic actions keep us passive, it keeps us from demanding better. Did the material conditions of black neighborhood get better with the symbolic action of adding an MLK Blvd 20+ years ago?
The white man will try to satisfy us with symbolic victories rather than economic equity and real justice.
Malcolm X.
Symbolic actions actively take up time and energy that could be devoted to material actions, particularly if they are as disorganized as this. That connection exists in your mind. There’s nothing stopping you from skipping the rally and going in directly canvassing more. Also, referendums fall squarely within the democratic system which elevated the guy you’re calling a dictator. It’s time to remember Hitler got elected. Gerrymandering laws won’t stop them throwing people into camps. This whole thought process is disjointed. These people are breaking the laws what you’re voting on state constitutional referendums to change! Did you forget this is a federal system and they are breaking federal laws too?
It’s truly comical that people talk about the No Kings Rally like it’s going to decolonize the U.S. and then you look at their actual messaging and its Hillary Clinton-tier wine mom sloganeering from the DNC. You guys have gotten me reading Baudrillard again. That’s how bad this is. I’m reading fucking Baudrillard. I don’t even like Baudrillard dude.
I have to disagree here: symbolic actions are how you get people hooked on action. Big ones like this have a significant bandwagon effect. Its very much a good use of a couple hours
Well, I wish you luck during the next election when you all go around hoping marginalized communities forgot you did nothing but cheer yourselves on. Nobody in the hood forgot the things Kamala “Do Not Come” Harris said, here that is where the Haitians are.
This is a shocker to you I know, but the “I’m just a widdle guy who doesn’t wanna hurt anybody 😭🥺” rally is not going to inspire anyone who had their family members kidnapped. Why do you love being a joke to the right wing and coddling them?
LoL
I’m doing something and getting others to join me, taking advantage of a public low-risk event to get others started down the same path. You’re sitting around complaining.
Yes, very lulzy, isn’t this whole situation funny? I already understand being asked to act against the fascists is a joke to you. You’re doing something for the democrats. You won’t lift a finger against ICE. What’s going to change other than your self-image during multiple fronts of ethnic cleansing? You won’t guilt trip me into coming to your liberal complaint parade. Its purpose is to reassure fascists you pose zero threat to them. Go and dance for them, go on!
I know what you say to the marginalized when you campaign. “We’re all you’ve got. 😁” The democrats are much like someone who got all their bones broken in a huge avoidable car accident and still thinks everything is fine due to shock. Things will never be the same. These strategies failed under Bush too. That’s why you imitate them. They’re safe. You have zero expectations for yourself other than telling people how right you are, scolding them. This is why the party has failed voters.
You keep saying about what they shouldn’t do, yet you have not listed even one thing you’ve already done that is better than things you’re calling as performative. If you want to prove your point, just list these things and explain how they’re more effective than protesting.
The situation isn’t a joke. You are.
