Do we want to? Yes, I think we all do. However, we also don’t want to die, and assaulting federal buildings is how you die. Unless you’re Maga assaulting the US capital building, of course. Then you get presidential pardons. But if we do it, ICE will shoot us, there’s no doubt in my mind.
People are already dying, families at that. We know what happens when we have more numbers and we use them. Why we continue to allow this to happen is beyond me. Yet all I can get organized is the same 5 people to take action.
Maybe so but that’s not easy to achieve. I think social stigma, public humiliation, etc. is the easiest way to achieve this. Definitely support investigators who are compiling information on them.
Mate, if you know how to organize a hundred million people from an area as large as the US, I’m all ears. I sure don’t. I don’t know if anyone does. We have small groups doing what they can, but it’s not enough. I agree with you, we need collective action, but I’m at a loss for how to effect that.
I also understand the general frustration, both from inside the US and out, but these thinly veiled suggestions that we should go attack ICE agents or start rioting or whatever else that keep getting thrown around on Lemmy and elsewhere are not helpful, either. Yes, we’re all frustrated, but taking brash, drastic action without the organization behind it will not solve anything.
I don’t know if it’s more frustrating when it comes from folks inside the US or out. If someone is inside the US and calling for frankly suicidal acts, and yet are not performing those acts themself, they’re hypocrites, plain and simple. If someone is outside the US and calling for those acts… all I can say is, you aren’t helping at all, and if you aren’t willing to help organize or give us some ideas on how to organize, kindly keep those opinions to yourselves.
Killing just 1 healthcare CEO sent waves through that class of people. Maybe 1 instance of violence on ICE would not fix things but if Americans make ICE fear guerilla hit & run tactics, you could have ICE as scared as the guys clearing tunnels in Vietnam
Your country is already doing the same tactics. Why aren’t you out there doing what you think needs to be done there? Your right wing is building up to be the US.
My assessment is that it would not. If you feel otherwise then feel free to act.
I don’t think Luigi achieved much with what he did. He’s now in jail and UnitedHealth just hires someone else to do the same job. It’s also different because his act was not perceived as more personal than political. And it’s a lot harder for ordinary Americans to empathize with a rich ceo than working class ICE agents. A lot of Americans are waking up to the fact that ICE is the enemy but it’s still a minority. The reality is a lot of Americans personally identify with law enforcement and will feel attacked when they are attacked. This creates more reaction, violence and division when we really need people to be united.
Propaganda of the deed tried and failed 100 years ago and I don’t think things are too different today.
I am not proposing doing nothing; I am proposing ignoring and also calling out people who are making frankly bad suggestions, like joining a disorganized riot against a federal building staffed by murderers.
Do we want to? Yes, I think we all do. However, we also don’t want to die, and assaulting federal buildings is how you die. Unless you’re Maga assaulting the US capital building, of course. Then you get presidential pardons. But if we do it, ICE will shoot us, there’s no doubt in my mind.
People are already dying, families at that. We know what happens when we have more numbers and we use them. Why we continue to allow this to happen is beyond me. Yet all I can get organized is the same 5 people to take action.
There will be 100x more people dying if it continues.
Individually attacking ice agents or facilities won’t stop this either though.
Like I don’t know what I can do to stop it. It’s outside of my power individually.
People should be afraid to work for ICE.
Maybe so but that’s not easy to achieve. I think social stigma, public humiliation, etc. is the easiest way to achieve this. Definitely support investigators who are compiling information on them.
Individual is the key word here — Americans are incapable of escaping the individuality. Collective action is seen internally as an impossibility.
Mate, if you know how to organize a hundred million people from an area as large as the US, I’m all ears. I sure don’t. I don’t know if anyone does. We have small groups doing what they can, but it’s not enough. I agree with you, we need collective action, but I’m at a loss for how to effect that.
I also understand the general frustration, both from inside the US and out, but these thinly veiled suggestions that we should go attack ICE agents or start rioting or whatever else that keep getting thrown around on Lemmy and elsewhere are not helpful, either. Yes, we’re all frustrated, but taking brash, drastic action without the organization behind it will not solve anything.
I don’t know if it’s more frustrating when it comes from folks inside the US or out. If someone is inside the US and calling for frankly suicidal acts, and yet are not performing those acts themself, they’re hypocrites, plain and simple. If someone is outside the US and calling for those acts… all I can say is, you aren’t helping at all, and if you aren’t willing to help organize or give us some ideas on how to organize, kindly keep those opinions to yourselves.
Join those small groups and participate. You don’t need to be the organizer yourself; there are plenty of other roles that need to be played.
I understand but I’m only in control of my own actions. I can’t make the rest of America do anything they don’t want to.
Yes, it was not intended as an allegation, just an observation!
Collective action sounds like scary socialism to Americans.
Get out to a local protest with the intention of making contact with political organizers.
You can’t do anything on your own, find a local group that is making plans and help with that.
Killing just 1 healthcare CEO sent waves through that class of people. Maybe 1 instance of violence on ICE would not fix things but if Americans make ICE fear guerilla hit & run tactics, you could have ICE as scared as the guys clearing tunnels in Vietnam
Are you American? Cuz it’s super easy to tell others to commit suicide.
The IRA brought one of the most powerful governments to the negotiating table and they weren’t nearly as armed as the American people.
No I’m Canadian and many of us fear we will have to rely on the same tactics if your country follows through on their threats to annex us.
Your country is already doing the same tactics. Why aren’t you out there doing what you think needs to be done there? Your right wing is building up to be the US.
Do you have a source for a Canadian force acting like ICE?
That’s what building up means, they’re not there yet. Now’s the time for you to save Canada, get to it.
We don’t discuss our tactics. They make geneva conventions once they know them.
We’re burning the place for Sure this time, though, if we can get all the way to Florida.
My assessment is that it would not. If you feel otherwise then feel free to act.
I don’t think Luigi achieved much with what he did. He’s now in jail and UnitedHealth just hires someone else to do the same job. It’s also different because his act was not perceived as more personal than political. And it’s a lot harder for ordinary Americans to empathize with a rich ceo than working class ICE agents. A lot of Americans are waking up to the fact that ICE is the enemy but it’s still a minority. The reality is a lot of Americans personally identify with law enforcement and will feel attacked when they are attacked. This creates more reaction, violence and division when we really need people to be united.
Propaganda of the deed tried and failed 100 years ago and I don’t think things are too different today.
Sometimes the threat of not doing something is worse than it is of doing something.
I am not proposing doing nothing; I am proposing ignoring and also calling out people who are making frankly bad suggestions, like joining a disorganized riot against a federal building staffed by murderers.
It is pretty clear not ALL of you do.