What
Buy our fighters jets or we invade with fighter jets ?
What absolute fuck is wrong with this country
This is just…bonkers.
Yeah but they also threatened to invade Greenland / Iceland (because apparently they’re the same country). That didn’t end up happening so I don’t think Canada has a lot to worry about.
wut.
If you don’t buy from me, I’ll bomb you.
Could we possibly exchange the F-35s for store credit and purchase some to send back info America?
I mean it’s always been like this basically.
But less publiclyCanada could do something really funny and start buying chinese anti-aircraft missiles.
Close. We should build our own, and if we happen to violate Chinese IP along the way, oh well.
Or just work with MBDA and Thales to set up a domestic production lines for Meteor and SAMP/T. And then collaborate with Europe more on aerospace and defense. And then make some deals with Korea and Poland for some of their hardware that they’re currently churning out. And then set up a joint production and rapid iteration project with Ukraine, since they’re essentially the best in the world at that shit these days. And then talk to France, Germany, Sweden, and/or Japan about getting some attack subs and perhaps SSGNs.
There’s lots of possibilities once you free yourself from the economic yoke of the US. We did kinda wreck your defense aerospace industry (the Avro Arrow was the absolute tits, and it’s a damn shame we crushed the project). But now’s a great time to reinvest in that stuff.
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Does Canada have the kind of military aerospace background to speedrun a program like that? Genuinely don’t know.
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Buying from America’s enemy sends a very different message. Just building your own missile looks like America’s vassal having pout; it’ll be used against NATO’s(read America’s) enemies anyway, essentially doing what Trump asked all NATO members and increasing their contribution to America’s sphere, for free. Cozying up to the other superpower signals that Canada actually prepared to break it off if the US doesn’t cut yall a better deal.
- Does Canada have the kind of military aerospace background to speedrun a program like that? Genuinely don’t know.
60 years ago we did. The Avro Arrow program was unexpectedly killed just as production was getting read to ramp up. Why? Who the fuck knows.
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We still do. That was a nascent effort, not some built up military industrial complex and it stil exceeded all rivals at the time.
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Why? Being a supplicant to a bully.
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Lockheed and Boeing have a history of bribing officials, both legally and illegally. That time a porn-star 9/11’d a yakuza’s kitchen was revenge for this.
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Going from supplicant to one abusive superpower to another sends the wrong message. Carney’s Davos speech spelled it out for you.
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Yes. We have virtually all the skills, expertise and knowhow with a few notable exceptions. (Submarines, we could build them but at great cost and a learning curve.) We could build nukes in a year if we wanted to. The delivery system would take longer than the payload, but we could do that too.
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Chinese goods are cheap because market function and the profit motive was not of central concern, neither human rights, labour rights or environmental rights. Your claim of “cheap” is badly distorted. There were costs born by the Chinese peoples across each of these domains that don’t show up on an invoice, but the bill always comes due and is paid in full. Your definition of “cheap” is a perversion of full cost accounting to suit a narrative.
one abusive superpower to another
So don’t put yourself into a situation where either can force abusive terms on you, not that China’s terms have been abusive, as evidenced by the development of countries who take chinese loans vs the eternal “developing” of countries which accept western “help”. I’m not even advocating entering China’s sphere, just having the threat available that the US can’t push any terms with no fear of consequences.
Chinese goods are cheap because market function and the profit motive was not of central concern
Correct, building the means of production was. Now they’ve done that, one unit of labor goes a lot further when you’re regularly setting up complex, automated assembly lines in days. If market function was the central concern, China would look like India or Africa; still exporting cheap resources and labor while your own people starve.
human rights, labour rights or environmental rights
Maybe 25 years ago when they had children working in machine presses and rivers that turned funny colors, it’s a different country now.
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Isn’t that similar to the shit that got Turkey kicked out of the F35 program?
Yes, except Russia instead of China.
To what extent it was the US sending other countries a message “Buy American or else” vs “We think you’ll let the radar systems send data on F-35s to Russia”, we don’t know, but if the second was a genuine concern, all the better for keeping F-35s away from your airspace.
So if they don’t buy any we’re just gonna give them out free? That’s dumb.
The Art of the Deal.
With a pilot, apparently.
“Give us money or we will attack you” is generally not something you say to an ally you want to keep. Trump is literally insane, trying to start WW3.
In his narcissistic mind, everyone else is just there for him to exploit. He literally can not comprehend any other way to do things.
It’s extortion, the only thing trump knows…
This is just robbery, we weren’t able to make our schedule and modified the price. “$27.7 billion in cost – up from its initial $19 billion.”
Yet expect them to just give us $7 billion dollars because we failed to meet the contract?
Duh. That’s how extortion works.
You think the mob ever delivered anything on time and under budget?
“Buy or weapons or else…” Maybe we should look for a more reliable supplier and close our airspace to their jet fighters.
Call his bluff.
That’s technically a declaration of war, right?
NORAD already has shared skies provisions. US jets can fly into our airspace as needed to intercept foreign attackers. We can do the same with them.
None of this constitutes a threat, despite Hoekstra’s weird, fumbling attempt to deliver it like one.
He basically said “If you don’t give us your business, we’ll have no choice but to protect your airspace even harder!” Oh, wow, scary. No, please, don’t do that.
Not even close.
They’re suggesting that Canada won’t be able to defend its own airspace so US will have to be able to operate more freely in Canadian than they already do. They are saying that the NORAD agreement would need to be updated to accommodate this.
Pretty sure that is the exact explanation that Russia uses when it violates Finnish and Swedish airspace.
And neither Finland nor Sweden are at war with Russia despite it. Bullshit tactic used by fucking putin yes but act of war no.
You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war.
So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about.
Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia.
Just because our politicians won’t accept it. We are currently at war with Russia. Have been for years. At least that’s what the Russians tell their own population. Then we have the constant sabotages in and around our territory by “totally not Russian military” people. When was the last time anyone formally “declared” a war? It isn’t the 1800s anymore.
For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw.
You know, like you do to allies when the commander in chief isn’t a Russian asset.
