A lot of people who are aware of Framework are linux users, and the average non-techie user probably doesn’t even know they exist.
Also:
Framework calls the Laptop 13 Pro “A laptop for Linux” in its official marketing, adding that it “is designed and tested for Linux compatibility from the ground up”.
If you market your product to linux users, surely you will attract a lot of linux users.
Just let good news be good news brother. We need more of it in the world right now.
And they say Microslop only does bad things lately. What do you call more people switching to Linux to avoid their enshitification, if not a good thing?
Linux is legit pretty easy now comparable to Windows. It’s application preferences and familiarity that keeps people at bay. New to computer user, I don’t think they’d struggle anymore with a gnome or kde linux desktop than with windows. to do the regular stuff people do. Browse the internet. Save their photos/documents in some folders
I would guess literally 99% of people could switch to Linux Mint and be more than happy.
I installed Cinnamon the other day, because I remembered it to be easy to use. It is.
But. It looks dated to me. Could really use a facelift. Maybe it’s just me, but in light of modern user interfaces Cinnamon is functional, but not a looker anymore. Zorin OS and Gnome in general, for example, show how it can be done.
Maybe just me…
No, it’s not just you. Mint and Ubuntu get thrown around a lot by people recommending them to new users, and they’re fine, but they are a bit dated.
I usually push new users to KDE Plasma if they are most used to Windows. It helps that Plasma is also my preference and I know how to help them with it, but yeah. I think it’s most likely to make intuitive sense to Windows users.
In my opinion both Cinnamon and Plasma are the GOAT, but for new users I think Cinnamon is the best, because from my experience it is trouble-free, and very easy to use, especially for Windows users. I have it on Linux Mint that is installed on one of the family laptops (I use Debian with Plasma myself).
Eh, don’t know about that. Probably a very large portion of people would need word/PowerPoint/etc… For company document compatibility.
For sure a lot of people though could easily get by with LibreOffice.
Not anymore. Most corporate environments I’ve been in use Office on the web or Google Docs.
MS Office works in a browser, and LibreOffice opens Word/Powerpoint files just fine. Been using LibreOffice for years while my coworkers send me files made with MS Office. It’s simply not a blocker.
web office products from microslop have reduced functionality in comparison to desktop variants, which is most obvious with Powerpoint. However, for sleek designs, canva might work better already, just the interoperability of the m365 office suite between multiple users at once keeps it at the front of the market.
Not surprising, the venn diagram of people who would buy a Framework (or even know it exists) and people who would choose an open source OS (or even know they exist) overlaps quite a bit, I imagine.
Framework computers aren’t really targeted at the average consumer.
It makes sense that the kind of people who value hardware which they can easily and freely maintain and upgrade also value software which they can easily and freely maintain and upgrade.
For sure Linux being a free option vs Windows being a paid for one also helps.
Tbh the shocker for me was people buying Framework laptops with Windows on them at all…? Wut?
Businesses that have to be complaint with industry standards are unfortunately stuck using Win or MacOS
Quite well aware, as in, more aware than I want to be lol - but why would these be buying Framework tho? Overlap of folks wanting a Framework laptop at orgs forced to use (only) Windows, at orgs willing to then buy Framework laptops seems real small. And I mean, buying it with Windows installed does suggest what you’re saying.
So hey, I’m wrong about a lot, such is life lol, maybe it makes sense.
I can’t tell you for sure, but Framework does have a business team and they seem to support automatic onboarding with Intune Autopilot too. One usecase that came into my mind is that when employees demand a new computer because theirs feel slow the tech can just drop in the board into a new chassis, reinstall the OS and the marketing guy is none the wiser. Plus, frameworks are cheaper in the long run.
We order DIY Framework 13 for work. Assemble them ourselves, install Windows and import it into Intune.
If we could, we would use them with Linux.
Why buy Framework? The 13 price is pretty much on par with other laptops. We get easily replaceable ports and people get to choose exactly which ports they want. Easy repairs and instead of “throwing out” the laptop, it can get an upgrade. Sustainability.
I’m also halfway trying to talk myself into taking the plunge (admittedly not with windows, I spent a good bit of my career locked into it and I’m done lol).
You seem open to share some details, by which I mean, I feel less potentially rude to ask - care to share how long you’ve been working with em (the Frameworks)? And any details therein, how it’s been, any frustrations?
Longevity matters a lot to me, at least in the medium term (and it’s not lost that me buying their ish would help them do that in a tiny way lol), so I’m gun-shy. My current approach is simply to buy old business class Dell things for my household, there’s ~no chance I’ll find myself unable to buy parts cheaply. I do also treasure giving old machines further life, very sustainable, feels good.
Whatcha think? Time for me to upgrade my approach (slowly 😅), or best to wait it out a bit and see what develops?
The first few Framework laptops were bought back in 2024. About 30 people have a Framework now, while the rest has Lenovo’s.
Nothing but issues with Lenovo. They even have a built-in reset button on the bottom for when they freeze and not even the power button works… They are between 2-4 years old. The USB-C ports in all of them are trash.
No issues with any Framework’s so far, except one had an issue with connecting to a TV through a Lenovo dock.
Thanks!
I’m so happy Framework appears to be doing well.
I’ve already replaced the keyboard of my 5yo OG 13 and plan to Frankenstein this thing as long as I can. I secretly hope the mainboard fails so I’m forced to upgrade.
Maybe after RAM prices recover…
does not surprise me. Framework appeals to users, who love DIY. The same applies for Linux.
If you‘re not into Linux/DIY, MacBook gives you a much better offering for the same price. If you‘re a masochist wanting Windows, you simply have smooth other options for lower price.
Honestly I’m surprised they ever didn’t have a Linux first stance. Its literally the perfect fucking user base for em.
When they started out, Linux had a lot less mindshare than it has now. Also Microsoft will absolutely retaliate against you, if you promote anything but their crapware. For a small manufacturer that can be a problem.
They’ve always designed around ensuring good Linux support with their component choices and support of fwupd, but their marketing focused on being repairable and upgradable, unlike companies like System76, who explicitly sell their laptops as Linux laptops. It seems they’ve recently started advertising their Linux support more, possibly due to their partnership to have Ubuntu pre-installed, possibly due to seeing just how many Linux users they already had or possibly due to the number of people switching from Windows to Linux.
They always were Linux-friendly. Some hardware choices like the fingerprint reader were directly related to Linux compatibility. Firmware and UEFI updates have always been available on Linux. They sponsor a lot of FOSS projects (some of them unfortunately linked to nazi dipshits, stirring a lot of controversy, but 99% of them are clean).
They may not have explicitely advertised Linux before, but they dropped a lot of hints.
I wonder how many would just do it for the extra discount and then use massgrave
Edit:
I went to watch their prices for the diy series
- Win 11 home is +145€
- Win 11 pro is +259€
- Ubuntu is free
(Preinstalled, is +220 € for win 11 pro or free Ubuntu, can’t get win home edition if preinstalled)
Even if you want Windows, it’s still better to get that edition that works just the same but has most of the bloat cut off, that they made for small business computers.
If you don’t join a domain, win11 pro will automatically install all the sponsored stuff exactly like win11 home at first login. There’s no difference in the two editions except only the pro can join a domain. Exactly same level of bloat, even if it’s more expensive
Oh, no. Not pro. The one for stuff like ticket dispensers.
There are some other features only in pro, like Hyper-V for instance.
Ah right
Who knows. Their target group is usually perfectly capable of installing an OS themselves. But Framework is also a popular hardware brand among Linux users, because their hardware is already built with Linux in mind. If you look at their forum, it does not feel like everyone is just installing Windows on their hardware.
Company when marketing works
Wow, I was surprised that their release video leaned so much into Linux. They said that this is a response to user feedback. That reminded me of when there was a lot of ask for one-handable phone but their sales were too small. So glad to see it has paid off for framework.
CEO said “it is MacBook for Linux”
Finally. There’s barely any other laptop that measures up to the build quality of a Mac.
Hopefully they keep the repairability, unlike Apple.
It’s built with a lot of off the shelf components and the schematics for the parts that aren’t are open source. So even if they stopped tomorrow, the stuff they’ve already sold will always be repairable.
Maybe because it’s cheaper? You don’t need to pay for Windows license so it’s usually cheaper.
True, but don’t they also sell a no os edition?
Not anymore. Ubuntu replaced the no OS option.
Also curiously the only Windows option is Pro. Before you had Home or Pro.
Because no one anywhere should be using Windows Home for anything. It is bad enough with group policy I shudder to think without.
as a framework customer and a linux user im not a fan of that move. plenty of us want nothing to do with unbuntu
if you’re someone who cares enough to not like ubuntu you know how to install another distro, this is for whoever who chooses linux because yes
Not anymore. Ubuntu replaced the no OS option.
It’s only Windows and None, they’ve replaced the pre-installed Ubuntu with an installation guide.
From FAQ:
You can choose the operating system that best fits your needs, Windows 11 and Linux are both supported. For Linux, Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported with installation guides, and the Framework Community offers additional setup guides for many other distributions; other operating systems like OpenBSD may also work but are community-supported.
Not quite, no. Their DIY edition displays the options as you show, but if you select prebuilt then the options include Ubuntu.
I assume with DIY they offer Windows only as a quick way to acquire a license, it may not even be installed. Not sure if anyone can confirm if they just throw in a Windows USB.
When I was looking for laptops regular laptops came out cheaper. I couldn’t justify the cost of a framework at the time.
Yeah, they’re not the cheapest but that’s because of their goals.
Designing with reparability and upgradeability in mind means more bespoke parts which cost more versus existing component assemblies in the market. That means more costly tooling and development, with smaller production runs than say a company like HP or Dell (which also costs more).
They actually sell the components and parts at reasonable pricing, and more importantly… designed with end user repairs in mind. So instead of everything being soldered to the main oard, different components are on separate subboards that can be replaced or upgraded separately. And include easy repair guides, a screwdriver in the box, and even extra screws pre installed in the chassis when you inevitably lose one.
Where possible, newer hardware they release can still be used on older models. Sometimes working 100%, sometimes with some limited capability depending on older system limitations. For instance, they just updated the 16" model and added an RTX 5070 GPU option, which you can purchase separately and pop into your old Framework 16 without needing to get a whole new system. Likewise, the same with the new mainboard/CPU in your old chassis. Or the new Laptop 13 2.8K Touchscreen which can be installed in every previous Laptop 13 model other than the Chromebook.
Very few laptop manufacturers get close to that kind of repairability and upgradeability, and that does come with a cost.
Yay, yet another tech company funding racists and transphobes is doing well :/
DHH is a an ethno-nationalist and a racist, I’ll grant that.
Care to support the transphobes angle with evidence? Or does it work like an honorary title?
Care to support the transphobes angle with evidence? Or does it work like an honorary title?
Interesting that you chose to be passive aggressive and get your back up at the the idea that he’s transphobic, rather than simply asking for evidence…
In any case, he did an article on his blog celebrating Abigail Shrier and her transphobic Irreversible Damage book. I’m not going to link to his blog, but if you want to find it, it was posted in March 2024
As I remembered, he positively reviewed a different book by her (Bad Therapy), which deals with parenting, and not with trans issues. Looking again (not happily), he does mention Irreversible Damage — but in passing, in an ambivalent way.
I think he never broached that particular topic, but I don’t have the stomach to go over DHH’s writing and check in detail. So you might be right.
Could I have some context on this please?
Gardiner Bryant did a video on this: https://video.4d2.org/w/rPMMDnLBA4kVmScBD6w9K5
They support and fund DHH
You mean Rails World?
Same guy, but no, I was referring to Omarchy and DHH himself.
The present tense “support” is not true. If unintentional, probably best to edit the reply?
I’d be happy to if I could find any evidence it were true.
That’s not how it works, right? You make the accusation; so you provide the evidence.
The claim implied in the present tense is that their relationship with DHH (insofar as there was one) is still ongoing.
I’m not in the habit of assuming companies that knowingly supported bigots, the benefit of the doubt. If there isn’t a clear, loud and non ambiguous walking back of their clear, loud and unambiguous support, then why would you, I or anyone else assume they have done so?
Because… of the paper trail? Rails World 2026 sponsorships are up and they are not in; they haven’t retweeted Omarchy rices since October; and… I admit, I can’t be sure they haven’t sent him another computer. Which — as you know — concludes the exhaustive trifecta of clear, loud and unambiguous support for bigots.
But you, I, and everyone else knows it’s not about what they do materially. As someone in a related thread actually put in writing, they ought to “denounce, when questioned”.
Meh.
One of several open source projects they’re helping fund happens to be run by a person like that. They’re funding is because of the open source project, but some people are very vocal that they’d rather the project not exist at all, and post about it every chance they get.
It’s like how some vegans can’t help but tell you loudly and at every opportunity that they’re vegan. Or some of the more insufferable Linux users in general. Venn diagram is probably a near circle with that linux group actually.
FOSS is a pretty small community in the grand scheme, if you avoided any project run by an objectionable individual, you couldn’t run much of anything.
There’s been plenty of posts about this particular issue all over if you go looking for it. I’d recommend doing your own research on whether you have a problem with it, and not rely on just a couple random commenters here, myself included.
