• donuts@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      I guess we’ve arrived at the part where a bunch of low-information lemmings come to say that Biden is bad for striking Houti terrorists who have been attacking and hijacking international shipping lanes, after being warned multiple times over the last weeks to stop. Boo fucking hoo.

      Pro tip: when the US military gives you a “final warning” to knock off your shit, maybe listen.

      • intelshill@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        Only the US is allowed to enforce sanctions or institute a blockade. Silly Yemen.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          A blockade is an act of war. If you’re going to commit an act of war. Don’t be surprised when there’s a response.

        • donuts@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Do you think America enforces sanctions against Russia by attacking their civilians?

          Follow up, do you have a clue how anything in the world actually works?

      • abuttandahalf@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        The country supplying arms for genocide is bombing the only country that is trying to put an end to it. Yemen is imposing sanctions on Israel because it is committing genocide. Israel should be sanctioned by the entire world. The united states imposes debilitating deadly sanctions on countries for decades simply because they are not under its boot. The United States is evil and no amount of propaganda is going to change that.

        • donuts@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          The terrorist Houthis in Yemen, like Hamas, are backed by Iran–all three of which have individually called for the genocide and annihilation of Israel.

          Last week America gave the Houthis one final warning (after multiple others) to knock off their piracy and hijacking of international trade routes.

          Instead of widely heeding that warning, they made the very stupid decision to call America’s bluff. As the saying goes “fuck around, find out.”

          By the way, Iran is also an authoritarian Islamic theocracy in which women are subjugated, homosexuality is subject to persecution, and freedom of expression is nonexistent. They represent the model of a Muslim State under Sharia religious law, back Islamic terrorist groups in various parts of the world, are creating instability in the region (like the Oct 7 attacks and these trade route hijackings), and are generally not your friend no matter how much koolaid you drink or what medal you pick up in the mental gymnastics Olympics.

          • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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            10 months ago

            I guess Iran is just really committed to ending genocide then, huh?

            Well, if the shoe fits…

          • abuttandahalf@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            Not even hamas supports mass killings of Israelis. Hamas’s position is military resistance until Palestine is liberated. Subjugating people and standing in the way of their liberation puts you at danger of violence. The only one responsible for that is you. If Israelis chose to accept Palestinians as equals, payed reparations, and became Palestinian citizens, no one would have a problem with them. Israel of course is not willing to accept the Palestinians it ethnically cleansed and those it occupies because it is a fascist ethno state.

            Yemen, not “the houthis” is the only country in the world brave enough to stand up and fight against genocide in the face of the US. Iran backing the resistance is a point in it’s favor, not against it or the resistance. Iran is supporting antimperialism and it should be commended for doing so.

            Good job on ticking every box on the islamophobic white supremacist demonization checklist. You were propagandized well.

            • guacupado@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Subjugating people and standing in the way of their liberation puts you at danger of violence.

              Can’t tell if you’re trying to convince him or yourself.

        • FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          The Houthis are attacking random ships, not Israeli ships. They were warned to cease attacking civilian ships on one of the largest trading routes in the world, and they didn’t. They fucked around and now they’re finding out.

          • abuttandahalf@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            First of all they’re not attacking ships. They are first warning them to reroute and not dock at Israel. When these ships refuse these orders they are boarding the ships and rerouting then without injuring anyone. Their operations are entirely reasonable.

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                10 months ago

                Ansarallah has been very clear on the degree of association with Israel they consider sufficient for enforcement of the blockade.

                Again, COSCO is literally sailing ships through the Suez Canal.

              • abuttandahalf@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                If enforcing a total blockade in Bab Al mandeb will harm israeli and world capitalist economy enough to pressure them into ending the genocide, then it is the duty of all who are able to enforce it. As long as the genocide is being carried out Bab Al mandeb will be restricted. Yemen is the only country courageous and moral enough to put pressure where it counts to end the genocide. While the genocidal United States cynically uses “international law” to ensure its continuation. It’s the duty of all actors to do everything in their ability to stop genocide.

                • Elderos@sh.itjust.works
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                  10 months ago

                  “Moral enough”, let’s not pretend they’re not thirsting for their own genocide, just read their catchphrase “God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam”".

                  Two wrongs does not make a right.

                  • abuttandahalf@lemmy.ml
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                    10 months ago

                    Because they associate the Zionist state with Judaism, a conflation that Israel itself works tirelessly to uphold. Zionism and israel must be extracted from Judaism like the cancer that they are so that Jewish people can return to being an integral part of Arab societies.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              That doesn’t even pass the sniff test. That route is to the entire Mediterranean, from all points west of there.

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          Shooting at more civilians is not the way to do it.

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Please provide a source for that claim that they are shooting civilians?

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              The crew on the container ships??? The ones they are launching missiles at

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Look at the front page of literally any newspaper. Fuck off with unserious requests for sources.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            Blockades are usually enforced by shooting at violating ships. And “shooting at more civilians isn’t the way to do it” then what is? Because there’s no world where “Just shut up and watch genocide happen” is the right answer.

            • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              What? Shooting civilians is never the answer. Did you really just advocate for that???

              2 wrongs don’t make a right.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                Then what is the right answer? Because as long as they’re not directly shooting and killing people they’re well within their rights to do anything to stop the genocide of Gaza.

                • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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                  10 months ago

                  Not sure about rights, because they are shooting out of their territorial waters. But the “rights”, or perhaps “powers” of any nation only go as far as they can enforce them.

                  So right now Yemen is indeed expressing itself, but they are finding out they don’t really have the power?

                  Ultimately, protest is valid and what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide. But killing (or endangering) third parties who are just working a shift is always wrong.

                  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                    10 months ago

                    AFAIK they didn’t kill anyone. They’re also pretty clear about their condition for allowing ships to pass.

                    Shooting violators is just how you enforce a blockade; it’s what the British did against the Germans.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              A blockade is an act of war. A blockade of the suez canal is an act of war against the 90% of the planet.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                They’re only blockading ships that are going to dock in Israel, are owned by Israelis or are flying the Israeli flag. It’s more targeted than just “we’re shooting rockets at any ship that passes”.

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            10 months ago

            The Yemeni armed forces did not shoot or iniure anyone in their operations. The United States has killed 10 in its first operation and who knows how many it has killed in it’s recent bombing of civilian areas in Yemen.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          No they aren’t. If they were only attacking Israel bound ships then you could make that argument. But they’ve de facto declared war on 90 percent of the planet.

        • QaspR@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          You should probably get some perspective before you post bullshit like this.

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        so US can fund genocide, but no one can protest it, got it.

        are trade routes more important than actual human lives?

        • evranch@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          Why not ask the human lives on the trade vessels?

          If the US Navy wasn’t swatting missiles and drones, hundreds of sailors would be at the bottom of the sea by now.

          Don’t forget environmental damage from spilled fuel and actual oil tankers that would be damaged. You know, like the Russian tanker they accidentally fired on today even though it had even less to do with them than anyone else in the sea.

          Launching missiles at civilian ships is not a “protest”.

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            can we worry about the environmental damage in palestine too?

            oh the poor crewmembers trying to ignore the known agressive blockade, maybe someone in yemen can go to their rescue oh whoops no they will be leveled by the millions lol.

            • evranch@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              The crew members are there for a wage, and the ships themselves mostly have nothing to do with Israel.

              A huge portion of global trade runs through the area, and it’s not just “trinkets from China” as some like to say. It’s grain, fuel, steel, all of the things that keep the world running in a globalized economy.

              You can’t blockade the entire world and not expect retaliation. If anything, I’m surprised it took this long.

              • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                well you cant cause a literal fucking genocide and expect there not to be retaliation. is trade more valuable than humans?

                you know what would solve this immediatly without more deaths? stop the genocide.

                • evranch@lemmy.ca
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                  10 months ago

                  As ugly as it sounds? Yes. There are nearly 8 billion humans on a planet with finite resources, globally distributed. The resources, unfortunately, are more valuable than any specific subset of humans at this point.

                  Without trade, billions would die. And they won’t be Westerners, they’ll be people who live in places where population exceeds carrying capacity. Namely, the ME and Asia.

                  Yemen in particular is highly dependent on foreign aid. By blocking trade the Houthis are not looking out for the people of their country any more than Hamas is looking out for the people of Palestine. In fact they are the reason Yemen is starving. I’m not sure why so many people on Lemmy are professing support for an illegitimate, theocratic revolutionary force.

                  “Arab countries and all Islamic countries will not be safe from Jews except through their eradication and the elimination of their entity.” - Al-Houthi

                  Yes, the Houthi are real opponents of genocide.

                  If the Houthis really feel like they have a dog in the fight, they could declare war on Israel and deploy and fight rather than harassing non-combatants. They’re nothing but terrorists, not combatants - and if the world agrees on one thing it’s that we do not negotiate with terrorists.

                  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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                    10 months ago

                    boohoo my stuff is taking longer to arrive.

                    thats a whole bunch of text to justify stopping a blockade but not stopping a genocide. literal genocide.

                    millions dying right now for no reason. stop the genocide and the blockade will stop, so fucking simple.

                    in your analysis you forgot the part where the US is funding it, and caused this whole mess in the first place.

                    but if youd rather have world war 3 over this wtf can i do.

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            then stop throwing explosives at palestine and yemen, very simple.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              That’s not how that works. Nobody ever stopped a war by starting another.

              • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                not war, genocide.

                genocide can be simply stopped.

                who really started this war? who is getting bombed by the millions now?

                • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Lol. You do not get to attack random cargo ships and say the countries policing the ocean started it.

      • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        Yemen is perfectly within the provisions of international law in blocking Israeli boats from transiting. The only violation of international law is if you claim that Ansar Allah is not the rightful and legitimate government of Yemen.

        • donuts@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          I can only imagine being so brainwashed to believe that the Houthis harassing, threatening and attacking one of the biggest international trade routes on Earth, while indiscriminately targeting ships from various countries and ignoring multiple warnings from the UN, Britain and the US, is in any way legitimate.

          They attacked civilian ships, they were warned not to, they didn’t stop attacking civilian ships, and now they’ve been retaliated against as promised. Let’s see if they’re smart enough to finally stop fucking with international civilian trade ships.

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            But when americans use naval ships to stop civilian ships from getting to Cuba is that them threatening and attacking civilians?

            ignoring multiple warnings from the UN, Britain and the US

            So everyone needs to follow Americas orders without question?

            They attacked civilian ships

            Thats how a blockade works, yes.

            • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              Thanks for this response, I didn’t have the mental capacity to frame it this well.

            • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              The US doesn’t have a blockade on Cuba. They have an embargo which only affects US ships and businesses. Basically a ban on Americans conducting business with Cuba.

              When the US did institute a blockade it was to prevent Russia placing nuclear weapons there. And it was tightly enforced around the island. Not on any ship heading into the Caribbean.

              • naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca
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                10 months ago

                By… Enforcing a blockade of companies that trade with Israel?

                Jeez, you’re really starting to sound like an antisemite with your idiotic “Jews control the world” narrative. Are you going to pull out an octopus emoji next?

    • Wahots@pawb.social
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      10 months ago

      I wouldn’t miss this election for the world! ^(because the consequences of fucking this up would echo far, far beyond the US…)

    • spez_@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’m voting green and red (Greens, socialists and communists)

      • kautau@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        As shitty as it is, when it comes to the actual presidential election, that’s basically a vote in trump’s pocket if he’s the candidate. Trump’s base is already solidified. They’re voting for him no matter what. He could get on live tv and say he’ll have everyone who voted for him executed after becoming dictator, and they’d cheer louder. For Biden, he’s going to struggle to get votes beyond “always vote blue” so any vote not for him is going to weaken his position against Trump. There’s no scenario where a third party wins.

        It’s not how it should be, but in this election, it’s what’s going to matter.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Ok so then what? Biden wins another election term, continues committing genocide in Gaza, and after 4 years we’re still stuck in the same place we started?

          Vote for Democrats again so Arabs in the middle east are murdered and Nazisrael expands their Lebensraum to include Lebanon and Jordan?

          If Biden wins while committing genocide it’s signaling that Democrat voters are just as fine with genocide as Republicans are, giving the Democratic party no reason to stop doing it.

          Genocide Joe must be replaced by a different candidate without a funny nickname, because voting for Biden now means you directly endorse genocide.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Or you could:

            • look at the overall picture instead of voting one issue
            • consider the alternative
            • stop being unrealistic that anything will change

            We can all agree with wanting the suffering of civilians to end but random countries in civil wars taking potshots at merchant ships passing by or throwing missiles in the general direction of hostilities, seems more like an attention getting tactic

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              What bigger picture? It’s fucking genocide dude. Holy shit this is not just a small issue you can ignore.

              It’s like saying "Vote for Hitler, he’s better than the other guy and it’s just the Jews that are going to get kiled.

              What israel is doing is blockading food and water from entering into Gaza which is an actual Nazi style war crime straight from the concentration camps.

              This is what shipping through the red sea looks like right now in 1000’s ships:

              The Houthis are most definitely making an enormous global impact. Since the West is not standing up for humanitarian rights it seems like the only thing that will stop this genocide them is losing money.

          • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            All that will still happen under trump, plus the Ukrainians will lose their lifeline and be conquered by Russians, and we’ll likely have purges in America or a civil war as trump tries to end America’s run as a democracy.

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Maybe ask Biden to bypass congress for Ukraine, instead of using them to give israel more bombs to kill children with then

          • kautau@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Or, vote for a third party candidate. Trump wins. He guts the checks and balances of the US government, a civil war erupts, the “little” insurrection we saw becomes very real. All the proud boys sitting home with their rifles scrolling truth social start to walk outside and shoot people they don’t like because Trump said it’s ok. Half the police are trying to quell the violence, half of them are siding with the insurrection.

            Foreign policy doesn’t matter at this point, it’s a matter of who survives the internal struggle. The EU and other nations ban travel to and from the US while they decide whether or not to intervene. Our NATO treaties are about protection from other nations, not from ourselves. The fascist uprising in the US gives strength to other international fascist uprisings that are currently rearing their heads across the world. Israel does whatever the fuck it wants, and the weapon dealers of the US, no longer bound by international treaty are happy to fill those weapon orders.

            Either a stronger section of what remains of the US government defeats the insurrection, and begins to pull apart the rubble for survivors, or what has won becomes the new “America,” no longer United States, but one “strong nation” so on and so forth.

            This isn’t a standard election, it’s literally deciding whether to vote in someone who has actively claimed they will become a dictator once in power. And it has very broad global implications beyond Israel’s imperialist invasion of Gaza.

              • kautau@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                The world stage was not nearly as volatile in 2016 as it is now, and Trump, who did manage to gut much of the US government legally at the time (Supreme Court, EPA, FCC, Education, Labor, Agriculture, Transportation, etc), was not at that point declaring he would go full dictator like he is now. He wasn’t on trial for being a literal insurrectionist and traitor against our democracy at that point. Like I said, it’s a very different election. I don’t like Biden, but I do like the idea that Biden can be legally voted out of power, and then the next president can also, legally be voted out of power. Trump’s goal is that he cannot be legally voted out of power, to the point that his militia will try to murder anyone that makes an effort to remove him from unlawful power.

                • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Here’s the big problem: Democrats have refused to fix it even when they were in power. Because it benefits them. The Democrats with Obama had full control of everything before 2016. Obama and Biden could have prevented this but they didn’t.

                  Democrats purposely didn’t encode any rights such as abortion. All so they can keep saying “Oohhh look at the other scary side, keep voting for us Democrats! You can’t vote third party this time they will take your abortions away!”.

                  Unless Americans start waking up to these extremely obvious forced scare tactics that the Democrats themselves hold in stand, nothing will ever change. And Genocide has to be the line at which you say “holy shit this is too far”. The end do not justify the means anymore if the means include genocide.

                  • kautau@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    Ok, so you are opting for a forced revolution, because my position of trying to prevent fascism isn’t the solution, and your position of voting for another candidate will allow the us to enter a civil war period. That’s fine, but you have to mop up the blood. A revolution or civil war in the US is likely inevitable, but you’re an accelerationist, claiming a position within the existing system with the interests of forcing the system to end

                    For more information:

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Yeah because no republican has ever started a war in the middle east before.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      As someone in a solid blue state, my vote won’t help decide our future, but we’re going for biggest percentage win.

      • lud@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Option 1: the racist orphan-crushing machine.
        Option 2: the orphan-crushing machine