I recently saw a comment chain about nuclear bombs, and that led me to thinking about this. Say there is a nuclear explosion in the downtown of my US city. I survive relatively fine, but obviously the main part of the city has been destroyed, while major zones extending from the center were also badly damaged. What would be a good response to (a) survive and (b) help out the recovery effort?
This brings to mind something David Mitchell said once on Would I Lie To You (British panel show):
In response to Kelvin MacKenzie’s claim that the “This Is My” guest had built him a nuclear bunker:
David Mitchell: If there’s a nuclear war, I don’t want to live. I don’t want to come out of a shelter and try to rebuild society. I have no skills. Okay, society is destroyed by a nuclear war, we’re basically - we’re back to the bronze age…how long is it gonna be before people start pitching panel shows again? It’s gonna be at least 2000 years!
Watch it here if you want, it was annoyingly hard to find.
However I don’t think David - who is a comedian - is precisely right about how such a war would affect the state of technology. If there are survivors, I don’t think we’d really be back to the bronze age. Even if all technology was destroyed (which it wouldn’t be), give humans a few decades, we’ll have some sort of modern technology back up and running. Maybe not computers, but some certainly some analogue electronics - the knowledge isn’t lost. Communications would be one of the first points of focus, so television would follow closely behind.
The thing is, people inherently want to live. It’s instinctual. Secondly, everybody - regardless of skill level - can learn to be handy and useful. If everything is destroyed, and society is to be rebuilt, a lot of manual labor will be needed for cleanup and rebuilding. Even the “I pick things up and put them down” guy is perfectly suited for this type of work.
The longest stretch would likely be chip fabs. You need precision electronics and hazardous chemicals and plenty of power.
But considering that some form of electronics will survive, and it wouldnt take long for people to get rudimentary electricity going, I don’t see why we couldn’t have world Internet within a decade.
Yeah, chip fabs are exactly why I think computers would need more time. I’m not super familiar with this, but I’d wager such a factory can only be built using tools and machines that come from other specialized factories, and so on maybe 3 levels down before you get to a relatively rudimentary manufacturing process that can be reasonably achieved within a few years. It would take a lot to get that back up and running.
However… Just think about how many chips are currently just sitting around… Between scrapping and searching you would likely be just fine for a few decades.
EMP would fry most of them though.
Only if they were currently running, and I’m willing to guess the vast majority of reusable/scrap chips will be unpowered in the event of an EMP.
Replacing all working electronics with new boards would definitely be a task. But unless we get an massive flare from the sun I hardly think that’ll be an issue.
By the time nuclear war happens, most chip manufacturing capability will be underground or in hidden sites and therefore not targeted.
How could you be sure of any of that? For all we know, nuclear war could start tomorrow. Or, a bit more realistically, next year. How fast can these factories be built?
Counterpoint:
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert A. Heinlein
When you’re functionally immortal like Lazarus Long you’ll have time to learn all that. Most people only live long enough to master one profession.
None of that’s about mastering professions
Thank you for the clip! I once found the show on youtube by accident, it is such a gem. It all started with the cabbage feud. (But I have come to notice that James Acaster only tells true stories, alas.)
I absolutely don’t get the point system though but nevermind.
I never tried to keep track, but I always assumed each correctly identified lie/truth gets a point, and each mistake gives a point to the other team. Keep in mind that the show gets edited down and you don’t see everything that the audience did, while the score probably includes those things you didn’t see.
But like, absolutely no one watches this show for the score, so who cares? It might as well be QI’s scoring system :)
Probably just get away from the city or away from the radiation, forget about helping recovery effort as initial response. That can happen once your safe.
Become a Brahmin rancher.
KYAGB
“Kiss your ass goodbye” for those who left their Ovaltine decoder ring at home.
More like “KY (the jelly) Ass GameBoy”
That Kentucky Jelly tastes like shit and goes straight through you though. 6/10 at best.
I love lemmy. No one on r/drinks Ovaltine.
Good. Mo. Fo. Me.
Kurzgesagt has a video on it.
Excellent Video! And important call for nuclear disarmament.
The only time a nuke has ever been used in war was when only one country had them. Disarmament destroys MAD and makes it possible for only one country to have (and therefore use) nukes again.
I suspect you are at least as old as I am, from the MAD comment.
Why Mutually Assured Destruction Can No Longer Keep the World from Annihilation https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/why-mutually-assured-destruction-can-no-longer-keep-the-world-from-annihilation/
Why MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) Is No Longer Reassuring https://www.fdd.org/podcasts/2022/04/01/mutually-assured-destruction-no-longer-reassuring/
The Diminishing Reassurance Of Mutually-Assured Destruction https://theowp.org/reports/the-diminishing-reassurance-of-mutually-assured-destruction/
have (and therefore use) nukes again
nukes, or anything else.
just look how great nuclear disarmament worked for ukraine. you can bet your right hand that no country will give their nukes up ever again.
No time like the present to get involved with something like a Community Emergency Response Team or its local equivalent. FEMA has manuals and other training materials available online which address the matter of chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear and explosive (CBRNE; sometimes just CBRN or NBC depending on agency or publication date) incidents. Won’t make you an expert on yield estimation or fallout mapping but there is information which may be useful for improving individual and community resilience.
Personally, I think the likelihood of getting nuked is low and it’s much more likely that a CERT volunteer will be called upon to assist in natural disasters or major accidents to relieve the burden on professional crews. Where I live, teams have been employed to assist in redirecting traffic around areas with downed power lines or, in one case somewhat recently, a significant natural gas leak. Firefighters and other specialists establish a safe perimeter before handing off the site to volunteers so they can respond to other incidents throughout the city while repair crews work down their list of priorities.
Long comment short: building useful skills and relationships before shit meets fan means less scrambling to figure it out on that day and there are real, practical applications for that knowledge beyond LARPing with Jim-Bob’s moron militia.
If you survive (big if) find Steve Huffman, he thinks he’ll be a good leader in a post apocalyptic earth
Not joking here. Find a way to finish dying.
I live at the edge of a city but near a major airport. my biggest nuke fear is a bomb hits the city center that leaves me alive and the airport ones take awhile to arrive.
I used to live about three miles from Camp David. I figured I’d either be killed immediately or inside a defensive perimeter in the event of a war.
Large bridges, airports, urban areas, any military installations, dams/hydroelectric, power plants, major train hubs, etc. are all targets in all-out nuclear war. You’ll need to actually think of how many things are targets and plot what not to be near.
Either way, all-out war would fuck the planet and probably set us back a century at best. If China survived they’d be the global power as they have the resources and manufacturing that the rest of the world has mostly given up, the rest would be completely decimated.
Is there even any nukeing the airport? Damage to the runway plus the EMP generated would probably prevent aircraft from taking off.
I just assumed they would want to hit major infrastructure like airports, depots and such. Now my new fear is they don’t nuke the airport at all. Im like at 3rd degree awefulness distance.
airstrips longer than 1600m (iirc) were at some point designated as strategic targets by soviets, so you assumed correctly
turns out that flat strips of concrete firmly attached to ground are pretty hard to damage
Man I’ll probably die but I’m just gonna walk north. Idk. good as any other direction.
shockwave happens
Right-o.
Assuming your home isn’t on fire. Seal everything, do not go outside! If possible, stay inside for as long as possible. Fill everything with water your bathtub, every cup, bucket, etc. Monitor the radio for emergency broadcasts for what to do next. AM stations are more likely to work. If you have a CB radio handy, (depending on your country) you can talk to authorities on Channel 9.
Tip regarding radio: 2182kHz SSB near the coast. That frequency is monitored by authorities globally. It’s the MF equivalent of maritime VHF ch16.
Technically, the same goes for 2187.5kHz, but that’s for digital transmission only, and unless you have the required hardware to encode/decode it, you won’t be able to make sense of it.
Source: I have a GOC
CB radio has really short range and there’s little likelihood that authorities would be monitoring it.
2182 kHz is long range marine radio and only good if you’re on a boat. I don’t know that anyone you talk to would care about a person on land while they’re handling their own maritime emergencies.
If someone really wants emergency radio I’d suggest ham radio or GMRS.
How long would I have to stay indoors? A week? A month?
Generally, the worst intensity stuff is actually over in the first 48-72 hours depending upon various factors. That’s not to say outside is completely safe after that (it wouldn’t be), but the level of danger is very different.
As long as possible to an indeterminate time and/or when authorities indicate to leave.
There is also amateur radio (aka ham radio), which can legally and practically operate at higher output powers if necessary, and on far more frequencies than CB. Although doomsday people often say to just buy a ham radio and use it without a license, I don’t advise that, simply because having the radio is only half the challenge.
The other half is the ability to competently operate the radio to effectively communicate and organize aid. And this only comes with practice by talking to others, in the form of regular participation in radio nets and/or emcomm activities. Emergency radio isn’t even limited to voice transmissions, with digital modes and even fax modes being an option that can transmit quicker and farther. Having a legit call sign will make it easier for rescuers to identify your transmissions, as well as figuring out if you’ve been located.
While some people will make ham radio a lifelong hobby, others obtain their license simply for small-talk, or for a SHTF scenario, or as longer-distance walkie-talkies when camping in heavily wooded forests. The possibilities are endless, but it all starts with a first radio and some basic training on radio handling.
Ham radio clubs across the USA and the world are generally very welcoming of new folks, so it’s worth looking up your nearby club or dropping in on an in-person club meeting.
The CB radio thing is going to be very location specific, I work in 911 dispatch, I think the state police around me theoretically monitor channel 9 on the highways, but in practice I wouldn’t have a lot of confidence in that, they barely look at info we send them over the computer, CB also has a somewhat limited range, so you’re counting on them having an officer somewhat nearby or you being close to their station.
As for local police, around me I suspect a few of them probably still have a CB antenna on the roof of their station and maybe even an old radio stashed somewhere in a closet but not hooked up and not being monitored, and the officers definitely don’t have them in their vehicles.
I’m in a pretty dense suburban area outside of a major city, they might still get some use in more rural areas where cell signals aren’t as reliable, though you’re probably going to run into the same issues with range limitations, in normal ideal conditions, you might get a range of about 20 miles or so, depending on atmospheric conditions, geography, etc. you might get only a fraction of that.
EDIT: FWIW, I keep a CB in my car, decent amount of chatter still happens on 19 around me, and a few other channels, and somehow channel 9 seems to have become essentially the Spanish language channel.
Thanks for the reminder, I have too look up where my designated bunker is.
Say there is a nuclear explosion in the downtown of my US city.
If it’s that close you then essentially you’ll need to decide whether to die quick or slow :/
If you’re actually planning on surviving you’d need to stay in an underground bunker or something similar for at least 3-5 weeks to be safe enough to travel outside (and we’re assuming you have clean sources of food/water, bathroom, etc, during that time). If you make it that far then afterwards you’d likely want to go outside & get as far away from the radiation zone as possible.
Coincidentally the basement of my work building actually has a fallout shelter sign from back in the day so the basement might survive a blast but I don’t see how I’d make it 3-5 weeks without being extra prepared for that beforehand.
I’m far from an expert on this, but I would guess the safety of being outdoors heavily depends on additional factors, like for example wind direction and speed.
It really depends.
Scale of bomb
Design of bomb.
Distance from epicenter
Ground explosion or atmospheric
Prevailing winds
City construction
Etc, etc.
It’s nowhere near as simple as we’ve been taught.
I’ve looked at the bomb simulator linked above, and for me and my city, and where I live, prevailing winds, etc, only the two largest warheads would have direct effect on me, and fallout isn’t a concern for the rest (distance and prevailing winds).
Now after that, it would surely be a complete shit show. I’d likely have no water (or maybe I would, this suburb isnt tied to the city). Power would certainly be an issue, as would telephone/cell, radio would be problematic for a short while. Food would be a problem, of course.
I’ve looked at the bomb simulator linked above
I’m not seeing a link. Did it get deleted?
Thanks. :)
Yes of course, I meant as a general idea of what you’d aim to do lacking any other information beyond the fact that the bomb itself fell in the local downtown area (going by the post itself).
Thing is if a bomb dropped that close most people will not know what the scale of the bomb was, what the design was, how far exactly they were from the blast radius, whether it’s ground / atmospheric, wind direction, all that stuff. In that short amount of time you’d just need to run into the nearest still-standing shelter & figure things out from there.
Hopefully with some extreme luck the bomb would fall just as you were walking/driving past your nearest fallout shelter and can easily get in. Or you’re a prepper and aren’t far from your homemade bunker with supplies, radio, and whatnot.
Everyone is talking about radiation but IMO having food and water is more important.
In a large city, things would turn to shit within hours. There would be violence.
Honestly, if you don’t have a relative on a farm within a days walk, then your best bet is a refugee camp.
Make sure my PC is ok and all GOG games downloaded. If needed, transfer the battlestation to a safer or better location, with a generator/solar panels & a decent battery.
Profit.
My life won’t change, I just won’t go to work.Don’t use certain cleaning products when bathing; I forget if it’s shampoo or conditioner, but one will bind radiation to you hair and scalp.
Shampoo cleans, conditioner binds moisture in. Cleaning is good, binding radioactive goop in is bad. Don’t condition.
That won’t be a problem. If you’re that close, you’ll be dead within a week from the massive dose you already took.
Edit: Aww, look. Somebody thinks Fallout was based on real science and facts. Don’t worry, buddy, you’ll be a ghoul and live forever.
It’ll be a rather unpleasant death I might add. Plan accordingly.
Exactly.
