Locked bootloaders should be illegal. Manufacturers should have to provide enough specs that third parties can write code that runs on the hardware.
Manufacturers should have to provide enough specs that third parties can write code that runs on the hardware.
“But Crowdstrike” would probably be an argument against.
“Security” as an excuse for self-serving bullshit isn’t new.
Sure, there’s a risk of breaking things. I can do that with a hacksaw and a soldering iron too, and it’s widely recognized that it isn’t up to the manufacturer of the thing to keep me from breaking it. We need the same understanding for devices that depend on software.
What’s wrong with just a pot box, a motor and some batteries?
That doesn’t seem to have anything which will manage your heated seat subscription or data mine your driving activity.
Hehe. Ok. Add an inverter and an electric blaket under the seat cover :)
Profit. They can add all those features and charge significant higher margins. The same as the bigger the car the bigger the profit so they push huge SUVs and pickups on everyone.
That’s what I like about CarPlay. Just give me a dumb screen with CarPlay compatibility. I’ll get new features with my phone upgrades. The rest of the car could be mechanical for all I care. I prefer cable clutches anyway.
Hehe. I’ve just got a Sony Bluetooth speaker sitting on the dash. For poddies it’s good enough.
Had similar in my old car, honestly a decent Bluetooth speaker will be better than a lot of old, stock car speakers would be anyway.
A clutch? What’s that? /s
Can you buy a TV based on the same basic functions like you list there?
Get a “smart” TV, never connect it to the internet, and attach a Chromecast and connect that instead because they cost about $30. The Chromecast with Google TV has apps for Kodi and Plex along with the basic streaming services so you can turn your TV into a media center.
That way, the only thing that will stop being unsupported is the Chromecast and you’re only out $30.
Maybe a USB DVB-T adapter plugged into a laptop or phone is about as close as you can get now.
Or an older set top box, but not so old that it can’t handle MP4.
The main issue is that the NHSTA requires a backup camera, which requires a screen. Since they have to make room for that screen, manufacturers now want to make it a premium thing they can use to justify up charging.
I don’t see a solution to this until someone actually tries to make things cheap again and small screens become the trend.
Is that a new rule? For all cars?
If by “new” you mean decided a decade ago and implemented 6 years ago, then yes.
I didn’t know. Maybe it’s not a law in Australia or I just haven’t been paying attention as my '96 Magna is still going fine.
Apparently Australia only got around to it last year, but they’re requiring it to be implemented a lot faster.
TIL. Thanks.
Luckily modern cars are generally a lot safer to drive than your old magna. Air bags (not new, just better), crumble zones, automatic emergency braking, lane assist/departure warning etc. have come a really long way in the past 30 years. They’re not only less likely to be in major crashes, they’re also safer for both people in the car and outside the car (bikes/pedestrians) if it happens.
Hehe you forgot ABS :) It’s up to me to pulse the brakes to keep steering, learned that in a defensive driving course.
I have a newer 2003 Verada as well but it’s decided it no longer can find TDC (code 22, 23) so I’m saving up for the diagnostics and possible repair or replacement.
I agree a newer car is safer, and am hanging out for an EV when I can afford one. In the mean time the simple reliability of the Magna is a trade off I must make.
As for repairability, I’m aware that I will soon need to replace the capacitors in the ECU and TCU on the Magna since they die of old age. It’s a failure mode for older cars that people might not anticipate - same as how all electionics die eventually.
It’s not a computer if it can’t run doom. And I look forward for Linux variants specific to vehicles.
Just another way to force you to buy a new one
this should be part of car safety and legislated by the govt, no?
in the uk it would be part of the MOT to see that your software is up to date and working
Just like they legislate vehicle size, headlight brightness, and enforce fuel economy standards?
I dream of an open source car. Something simple but reliable, say a legally-distinct 2004 Honda Accord, bog standard, no frills, no detail package options, just A Cheap Car with standardized parts and open source software. It’s the only car the company makes, you can buy one for 10k or build your own for 6k out of parts and a couple months worth of weekends, car nerds will fork the software for infinite tuning customization, and it doesn’t report your location back to headquarters. Parts are standardized across every car we’ve ever made so your local parts store will have them in stock. The new model year is the same car as last year, we just built some fresh ones for people to buy new.
I have no way of making this dream a reality. But I dream of it nonetheless. American car culture has gone off the rails, and the number of people I see already driving around old 5-owner Hondas and Toyotas and Buicks tells me that there is definitely a market for a cheap basic car that runs.
Yeah I want my autonomous electric town car to be fully open. We should be able to have sustainable cars if any cars at all. Cars you can’t easily repair or maintain are not sustainable.
I assume car manufacturers would try to stop this by saying people would just load up video games or netflix on their dashboards while they drive. Even though you could probably do that now already, if you really wanted to.
Hell, I could just bolt a laptop to the dash if I really wanted that
Why jump to laptop when tablets are right there? Just chuck one of these chungus fuckers onto some velcro mounts…https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/tablets/galaxy-view/samsung-galaxy-view-18-4-32gb-wi-fi-black-sm-t670nzkaxar/
Yeah, but who wants their car to look like a Tesla? ;)
What do you mean? You still have your dash cluster!
Creating a FOSS EV is all do-able right now with off the shelf motors and batteries. Welding a frame would take some skill. How to title it would depend on the local government rules; many states in the US have a kit car designation for this sort of thing, but not all do.
If it’s built rigid like a race car with a roll cage, four-point harness, and at least a DOT rated helmet for everyone inside (if not Snell), it could be safer then most cars on the road. If it’s not very large, then it’s probably safer for pedestrians and bicycles, too.
I don’t expect air bags to be viable. It takes a lot of tuning to get them right, and they can be worse than nothing if not done right (they’re basically a controlled explosion). However, the race car-like design above, plus helmets, would keep you safer than any air bag. Road cars converted to track cars often disable or remove the air bags. The rules of the event may even require it. They’re counterproductive dead weight when you’re packed in this way.
Other creature comforts are going to be what you put into it, but keep in mind that many of the things we take for granted in modern cars–A/C, stereos, padded seats, etc.–add a whole lot of weight.
What also adds weight is how many passengers you want to carry at once. Two passengers won’t add much weight, but four or more would. All that extra frame material adds up.
Building a traditional frame would take some welding skills. I have just enough welding skills to make some shelves, but anything structural (which my tutor defined as “anything where somebody’s life depends on the weld holding”) is not something I’m comfortable doing. That is to say, it’ll take more than a quick tutorial and a little practice.
However, one interesting possibility is epoxy. Lotus did this for the Elise, and I once tracked down the epoxy manufacturer they use (I’d have to search around to find it again, though). The instructions for it didn’t seem to need anything particularly out of reach for a hobbyist (doesn’t need a big autoclave or anything like that). Lotus did reinforce certain sections with bolts/rivets. It will take some knowledge to design a frame around this, but it’s one time design work by an engineer and then everyone can copy it.
One advantage Lotus had over a welded frame was thinner material. A weld itself is very strong, but it weakens the metal around it (meaning you usually get breaks around the weld, not on it). You have to use thicker metal to compensate for that. Since Lotus was using an epoxy, they could use thinner material for less weight, and it was stronger in the end.
Since it’s also getting rid of a whole lot of weight around the frame, the range you get out of those batteries could be extreme. It could also be extremely quick with a modest motor.
This is basically all to say that you can have any three: safe, creature comforts, enough space for passengers, range.
I want that so badly.
For legal reasons it might be easier to take an existing car, throw out all the tech, and add your own. You won’t own the chassis design, but you can at least use open source software everywhere.
Difference between getting a modification certified, vs a self build.
That would have been the Sono Sion, but there was too little interest. Not enough preorders meant they ran out of money to continue development.
Off topic: I’d argue Love Exposure by Sion Sono is the best movie ever made.
Car dependency is a dead end. It’s inherently wasteful, privileged, inefficient, unsustainable, unhealthy, etc. I would much rather have free, extensive, public transit and safe infrastructure for pedestrians, bikes, and light EVs.
Great, lmk when there’s a regular train from Boston to my office in Boxborough, which currently requires it’s residents to drop off their own trash at the facility. I’m sure that’ll be frequent and efficient right?
Tell us you don’t live in the US without telling us you don 't live in the US.
Or anywhere relatively rural. I just got home from a long weekend in rural Minnesota/Wisconsin, and there’s literally no viable way to run public transit out there in a manner that wouldn’t either be so restrictive as to be useless, or would lose so much money it would be first on the block for service cuts (and therefore become useless). I’m talking “town of 600 residents, most people live on unincorporated county land on a farmstead, and the only grocery store in a 50 mile radius is a Dollar General” rural. Asking these folks to give up cars is an insane prospect.
Paved roads don’t just naturally occur, though. That lifestyle is already an insane prospect, unsustainabke but for the large tax subsidy required to enable it.
I live in the U.S. That comment is 100% true, no matter where one lives.
Building out transit and infrastructure takes time. In the meanwhile, people still have to get places.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting otherwise, but continuing to say that as a reason not to work towards that goal makes no sense
And isn’t necessarily the best approach
Headlines now are now not even now proofread now
To be fair, I used the Lemmy auto-generated title. They did fix the title that actually displayed on their website.
But thanks, I fixed the post title
In general for me, I think mission critical systems breaks, engine etc should be physically isolated from the infotainment system. Infotainment systems should also prioritize using off the shelf hardware and running stuff like android, also prioritize android auto and apple car play, since these can be updated without automaker input for the most part.
When you car can connect to the Internet, it becomes a data-mining tool that tells everyone your business. Companies would LOVE to have all that juicy location data that only Google has right now (from your phones). Insurance companies would LOVE to know your driving habits to have any excuse at all to jack up your premiums.
Now?
…linux cars? Pretty please?
Vehicle control systems are overwhelmingly programmed in C, mostly from graphical design tools such as MATLAB Simulink via an automatic process. These are real time control systems which are quite different to an interrupt based operating system such as Linux. The many individual controllers must work in concert according to a strict architecture definition and timing schedule that defines the functionality of the vehicle. It’s not at all like a PC or phone, whose OS become irrelevant over time, with respect to their environment of other systems. The vehicle environment is the same environment that we inhabit i.e. the one with gravity, friction, charge and the other SI units. This is slowly changing with advent of self driving but, yeah.
These are real time control systems which are quite different to an interrupt based operating system such as Linux.
You do know you can operate the linux kernel in real time, right?
It’s not a hard real time OS though. Real Time Linux would be appropriate for some subsystems in a car, but not for things that are safety critical with hard timing constraints, e.g. ABS controllers.
Yeah but the infotainment system can be Linux based.
This is correct. If using an OS, an RTOS like the Linux Foundation Zephyr OS is the right choice here.
fine, fine, I learned 3/4 new things there, thanks for taking the time
God no
I think people are missing the fact that the features of this VW are going away because they run on 3G. What can a car manufacturer do? Correct me if I’m wrong, you can’t just drop a new antenna to fix the problem.
Cars routinely last 15 years and that’s geologic time compared to tech. This isn’t just a problem of greed or lack of foresight.
You can get a USB 4G modem on Amazon for $40
What can they do? How about making the cellular models modular? 3G goes bust? Swap the modem for a 4G one next time the car is in for service.
How is the 3G sunset not solvable by just swapping out a modem module for an LTE or 5G one and maybe installing some new modem firmware? A lot of cars are running a Linux kernel under the hood, so I’d think it’s pretty well swap and go
I think the question is not if it’s solvable, but ‘who pays for it?’ and ‘who can be held accountable if things go awry?’
The company that didn’t see the 3G sunset coming, I would think. I know auto moves slow, but damn…4G was out for what, 4-5 years before development likely started on the 2019 model year?
I’d think so too, but (I assume) you and I don’t have a small army of lawyers and lobbyists on retainer.
Ah, if only car hardware was modular and standardized… And if you had access to your infotainment system beyond touching the pretty buttons…
Imagine something as outlandish as user serviceable infotainment systems. Like they used to have in the old days. I’m hanging on by a thread to my basic 2014 car which still has a double DIN slot I can put my own system into…some day
Are these buttons in a room with us right now
Give me my buttons back
I’m lucky enough to never have owned a car without buttons - My newest car was a '19 Benz and they LUCKILY were pretty slow about hopping onto the touchscreen bandwagon
However, in my comment I meant on-screen buttons anyway, as that seems to be the norm nowadays :(
Hopefully that’ll change, iirc the EU discussed about requiring physical buttons for the highest safety rating a few months ago. Idk how that turned out but if it passed there’s hope
I love it when politicians in a democracy are doing things for the people.
Now car do get dlx, subscription.
And when you sell a car, all dlc are lost.
They no roll?
