They’re in their 60’s, finally convinced them.
They say things like “This is the same…”
and I’m like
“Ya because that’s Firefox, the only program you use…”
“What was Windows even doing for us?”
I got my parents in their 70s to use Ubuntu for a few years now. All they use is a web browser and word processing application for .docx files. They used MS Word for years and I found Only Office has a similar UI and opens word docs.
At one point I gave them an older laptop running windows again and they hated it. They wanted Linux back.
Libreoffice has an option for a ribbon user interface. It makes it nearly identical to Microsoft’s stuff that I grew up on.
I tried to find this, but had big issues finding where to toggle this. I find the default UI very cluttered and confusing.
View > user interface > tabbed
I can’t actually find the View-menu (or any other of the usual File, Edit etc.). Maybe it doesn’t play nice on KDE under Wayland? In LibreOffice Impress I can right click the gutter and click “More” and bring up what is called “Options - LibreOffice”. Here I can find “Peronsalization” which allows me to select different themes (to no effect) and that’s it.
If it was for me, I would support a FOSS alternative but, parents didn’t enjoy the Libreoffice experience.
I’ve never really liked the UI in LibreOffice either. It’s usable, but always felt clunky to me. And it feels so heavy and ponderous to use. That says something from someone who wears the sackcloth and ashes of FreeCAD…
I did use OnlyOffice for a bit and I thought it was better for my needs than LibreOffice. But it was still overkill my current needs. So now I’m down to just AbbyWord and Gnumeric since I only need the odd document and simple spreadsheet.
Edit for missed word
Onlyoffice is a near clone of MS office though, so there’s basically no friction in adopting it unless you’re heavily into advanced Excel features.
From my experience, OnlyOffice provides better compatability with MS Office-files (that is, more so than LibreOffice). However, having used Powerpoint quite a lot in my professional life, and using OnlyOffice Presentation to make a slide deck now, that is an area where I unfortunately find it severely lacking. There’s also the issue about their license - I am not all that familiar with it, but apparently they are not as free and open as they claim to be.
What ever happened to Open Office? That used to be the defacto replacement to Microsoft Office. I haven’t used office tools on a personal computer in over a decade though, so I’m very out of the loop there.
For historical info - Oracle bought OpenOffice and started to close it down, so all the developers that worked on it forked it into LibreOffice
Oracle has since given OpenOffice to an open source group, Apache, but the main development still happens on LibreOffice
LibreOffice is as far as I know a continuation of OpenOffice.
Thanks. Can that still be installed on Windows systems?
Yes indeed!
How do I use it?
There’s a button labeled “User Interface” in one of the alt menus that I don’t remember the name of.
Seems to be under “view”
That’s definitely it! Thanks for clarifying!
whatismypurpose
yourunfirefox
Way to go, mister/miss!
Mass
Around 60 kilograms or so
What’s that in freedom units?
Check it out, I’m a masshole! *toot*
Appropriate username
Ive seen mx. be used for that but it sounds dumb for me because its too similar to the french abreviation for pieces.
(14 pc. = 14 mcx)
mcx
I think MCX is also a kind of an assault rifle.
It’s also 1110 in Roman numerals.
Which is also 14 in binary.
Last time I tried convincing em to install Linux, they said “I’m on it” to end up ghosting me after like I was a weird, random beggar they met on the street.
If you install something like Ubuntu for them, they won’t bother switching back to windows.
“Install Linux”, is usually a hurdle for most people. We should be willing to help with that part.
Usually the reaction you’ll get trying to convince someone to use an operating system when they don’t know or care what an operating system is
“Do you mean the Internet? I use Bing.”
They’re in their 60s*
But lovely story ❤️
Windows is just the micro kernel running the actual operating system: Firefox.
I posted this xkcd a couple of weeks ago, it’s always relevant!
You can probably add an iPad and an Android tablet there too.
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Windows, is in fact, Firefox/Windows, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, Firefox plus Windows. Windows is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another component of a fully functioning Firefox system made useful by the Firefox browser, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS.
Many computer users run a modified version of the Firefox system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Firefox which is widely used today is often called Windows, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Firefox system, developed by Mozilla.
There really is a Windows, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Windows is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Windows is normally used in combination with the Firefox operating system: the whole system is basically Firefox with Windows added, or Firefox/Windows. All the so-called Windows distributions are really distributions of Firefox/Windows!
This is the year of Firefox-on-the-desktop. I can feel it.
FoxOS - coming soon?
Mozilla FirefOS?
missed opportunity to say Mozilla FireFOSS
Different meaning, though!
This is the year of Firefox-on-the-desktop. I can feel it.
That is the most delicious flavor of that pasta I’ve ever read.
Firefox OS says hello from the grave!
Still better than ChromeOS.
When I was at Qualcomm we had an experimental, internally developed mobile OS that embraced the ubiquity of the browser and the power of apps written for the browser. The code name was b2f, which stood for “boot to Firefox”
The JavaScript OS.
This isn’t related to boot to gecko, right?
Boot To Gecko is KaiOS, right?
Now yes, but it was briefly the basis for Firefox OS, which was almost early enough to the market to become a major player, but unfortunately too late and people were already attached to some apps they used regularly
Or more likely, Chrome browser these days…
Dunno how that’s relevant but thanks - LOLOL worth the watch.
Sorry, mixed up the videos. It’s actually this one, from 2014:
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript
Edited link above
linux has 2 really good target audiences people using it as a near chrome book like experience, and ultra advanced users who want fine control of the system.
its everyone else in the middle that needs to play how much do i have to tweak in order to do what I want.
Moving from Windows as an intermediate user was the worst. I hated Linux for like a year. I knew just enough quirks about Windows to get 95% of what I wanted, 95% of the time, and on Linux I had to start from scratch.
Now of course I love I made the switch, as my Linux proficiency let me customize the heck out of everything, but damn, that first year…
Do you have a top 5 list of things you hated?
I don’t have a “top 5”, but the main thing was outdated software. I went to Debian because I wanted “stability” and heard that it was good, but it ended up meaning the “15-minute bugs” I encountered weren’t fixed for basically the whole year I used it, all the apps looked like they were made in 2007, and if it weren’t for Linux forums I would never have known that there were more “modern” Linux apps, and I would have been left believing Linux development basically died
Yeah this tracks, I don’t understand why people recommend Debian so much, especially to new users. Distros that update more regularly like Mint or Fedora (for non nvidia users) are much better options.
This was my mistake, but I don’t think people recommended Debian as a desktop OS - I believe it was recommended as a server
I feel like outdated software on the stable distro like Debian has become less of a problem with the development of flatpak.
This is one of the reasons I love Flatpak so much
I like the simplicity and that everything is up to date. Not sure about the weekly 11 GB of updates though.
I wish instead of complaining to people that they didn’t read the docs or whatever that linux devs would scour the internet for these criticisms (like when specifics are provided) and then develop solutions for them.
Yeah, people are shitting on your product because it’s not obvious. Make it more obvious!
(Thankfully this is starting to happen…)
For that chrome book like experience, the genuinely think Chrome OS flex is probably a better option for most people (privacy concerns not withstanding).
It’s ideal for someone who really doesn’t understand computers (so can’t be relied on to install updates etc) if you don’t want to have to be tech support as much as for a “proper” OS
I never though about it in that way hahahah. Makes total sense.
Wha-
People in the middle! Crushed yet again, oof!Speaking of a chromebook experience, installing ChromeOS Flex on my wife’s slow, outdated Surface Pro made it sleek and fast again. Can you suggest a Linux distro that would be similar on old laptops?
I like Xubuntu. But I’ve no experience on how well it does with touch screens.
I usually use debian with x on old laptops but I’ve heard good things about gallium being pretty light
Yeah my grandma uses it without any problems. I would never recommend it to my sister or mom but i know my grandma is completely happy with her basically chromebook.
“What was Windows even doing for us?”
Providing minimal malware protection while being actual malware?
I can’t believe Microsoft is doing EEE on malware
Always been.
Did the same thing. Got them using FOSS apps on Windows (Firefox, LibreOffice, Thunderbird), then switched them and made Linux look like Windows. They never cared, kept on using it like nothing changed.
Great! I’ve got my Dad on it, just need to get my mom off of her iPad now
iPads are solid devices. They’re expensive yeah but at least it’s not a fucking Windows tablet. And if you need something just downright idiot proof Apple has got your back.
Somehow iOS confused my technology illiterate mother, but she knows how to use Android.
technology related muscle memory? once people learn a thing, its hard to convince them to relearn something new … especially when you “are just doing the same thing anyway”.
Because ios/ipados ui is very bad and unintuitive.
To make it look “clean” and “minimalistic” you actual features are hidden behind hidden menus, you need to use the share menu to do basic file operations that are not share related, and they keep adding more unrelated functions either there in the text selection overlay.
The worse is that when something doesn’t work you cannot do anything since it should look good, so if an app starts bugging (which can actually happen a lot), you wan’t be able to properly see what’s happening maybe you can empty cache in their messed up settings where every new app is a new setting tab…, won’t be able to pick default app for opening something, you might as well uninstall other apps to select default banking app. Basically every time there’s a problem, you will not have possibility to fix it because it’s supposed to be problem less, which it isn’t
If either of my parents could use a computer it would run linux.
But then I have to do all of their online tasks anyway, so technically they are using linux.
I’d like to interject for a moment, what you’re referring to as Linux is actually gnu/linux/churbleyimyam
I am honoured.
“What was Windows even doing for us?”
Beautiful 🥲
This sounds about right. My parents only use their browsers. They literally do not use any applications outside of the browser. They would be just fine on Linux but change is scary and everything just works.
I had my mom on Ubuntu for most of the 2010’s, and then the macbook it was on had catastrophic hard drive failure around the pandemic, but then I was like, you don’t work anymore, why exactly do you NEED a computer to begin with? So now she literally doesn’t have a computer and just lives mobile/tablet OS life, which in a nonprofessional context seems perfectly serviceable these days.
This has been my life for years. Now if you put a modern windows computer in front of me I feel like I’m 90. nothing works how I expect or is where I expect and just get confused and angry and start complaining about how in my day things were different and better.
I miss win7
Beyond my normal use case, I still think there are some Internet things that are “big screen” tasks. Too many websites still have poorly optimized mobile interferfaces.
I’m an ex web dev but I still maintain a few non-profit websites. It adds a much t my time load to make sure, what I sometimes a quite complicated system, mobile enabled. And even then it’s often more difficult to use a website with a lot of information or a necessarily complex store/booking system on a mobile phone or laptop. A larger screen with more screen real estate can make UX much nicer. But people have this perception that convenience or ease of access translates into easier to use. Hell even just using a keyboard n a desktop compared to a phone keyboard.
What distro did you get them on?
Does it really matter? IMO the only thing that matters is that they got rid of Windows
No it doesn’t, but my 75yo dad has been asking/thinking about switching when Windows 10 eol.
Most of my Linux/Unix experience is at the server level.
Fwiw, I’d say put him on FedoraKDE or Mint. Mint is the classic beginner distro now that Ubuntu has lost favor, and I just have a thing for Fedora, but it’s a popular distro with plenty of help available and KDE feels pretty windows-y (or windows stole from KDE but who’s counting.)
Thanks, I’ll check them out. I’ve heard mint a few times as a good beginner distro. I’ll probably dual boot my PC on whatever I am gonna recommend him for a bit so I get my bearings and can support him a bit :)
Ubuntu as its what Im most familiar with
