Now that we have final numbers. It appears that Harris had all the white & black support she needed for an EC victory. But Trump outright flipping Latino men and making huge gains with Latino women seems to have made all the difference.
What do you think?
First image is 2024, second is 2020.
Democrats failed to solve people’s issues. That’s just it.
But Americans are in for a hard awakening if they think that in general Latin American population is progressive or left leaning. And that democrats have their guaranteed vote.
Each person is different, of course. And the average doesn’t change any person individual values.
But on average Latin American countries tend to have overwhelming conservative cultures when compared with USA/Europe.
This doesn’t negate any Latin American person who is progressive, of course. Just talking about averages and the reality that was shown by the polls.
In general Democrats, and any left leaning party, think that because they defend immigrants, immigrants will support them by default. This has been shown far from the truth. If someone have conservative values they will probably vote for a conservative party. That’s just it. One person won’t become progressive (as in stopping being sexist or transphobic) just because they moved from one country to another. An immigrant is a whole person with their own sets of values, both before and after they migrate, and won’t be reduced to “being an immigrant” when voting, specially once they are legally settled in a place and their residence won’t be at risk, they will just vote for their values. If they have conservative values they’ll vote conservative if they have progressive values they’ll vote progressive.
Actually beautiful comment. Thank you.
Many legal immigrants get pissed if you conflate them with illegal immigrants. They try very hard distance themselves from those people. Couple that with pervasive machismo and Catholic ignorance and this is what you get.
I know! Let’s blame EVERYBODY. That way nobody is left out and we can just admit we ALL fucked up so next time we can constructively work together to NOT fuck up instead of slinging mud at each other for the next four years.
not gonna happen. harris supporters still think genociding and massive wealth inequalities are okay. dems have lost my vote nationally until they start supporting labor and stop fucking warmongering.
Based and blue pilled
lol, I already took the red pill ages ago. I’m just done exploring the rabbit hole, either people wake up or they dont. I’ll pay just enough attention to know when i need to be there to push but otherwise meh. the DNC and its supporters are just not worth helping anymore.
Congrats on your surplus privilege! But I have some bad news for you…
You really dont. I’ve been expecting this for almost an entire year now. Only way to fix the dems is to toss them in the trash at this point.
Only way to fix the dems is to toss them in the trash at this point.
Right because when something’s broken you don’t fix it, you just throw it away.
Good luck with the alternative.
Yes, that’s what you do when the effort required to fix something is more than the effort to replace it. And only thing I need to do to replace the DNC is just let it continue doing its stupid shit and people will continue to abandon it opening the path to other options.
Will you shake your fists angrily and exclaim that “someone ought to do something” ?
No? I’ll simply continue voting for good people (when they run) and telling dweebs like yourself why their candidate is still fucking trash as usual. eventually it’ll sink it. In no way is refusing to support the democratic party due to current behavior a statement about no longer being politically active.
But based on current trends looks like the DNC is probably done nationally unless they actually have a come to jesus moment as a group which based on past behavior is terribly unlikely.
The fact that any group aside from white men voted for trumpism is the issue. The disconnect was the complicit main stream media sane washing the craziness. They put racism/homophobia/fascism on the same level as Harris’ policies.
I object!
White men voting for trumpism is also the issue.
For sure, though I get the op point that at least Trump pretends to promise them something unlike every other group
Idk, white folks voting for Trump is an issue if you ask me, a white guy. Too many white folks sane washing his shit. Morning Joe went from “he’s a fascist” to “let’s put out differences aside”. Other whities need to realize this is a grift that will likely kill your own.
I don’t think anyone shifted right. They just didn’t want whatever it was that Harris was selling.
dude, if they voted right, they shifted right, that’s what the word shifted means
Shifted right means their policy preferences moved right. That is not the entirety of why someone votes a given way. Some probably did shift right. Others may have thought Trump had better hair. It’s an analog world and you have to dive into the weeds to understand things. You can’t look at one number and think it explains everything.
Ummm, yes they did. Latino male turnout went up 1%. More of them voted this election than 2020. Which means they shifted right.
Non sequitur, there are many analyses of the party change and they don’t all boil down to left vs right.
The percentage of all Latino voters going up between 2020 and 2024 doesn’t necessarily mean there was more turn out from Latinos; if the voter demographics have shifted between 2020 and 2024 so that Latinos make up 1% more of the population, then they are still turning out at the exact same per capita rate as before, as a group.
Which sounds like a short time, but that’s a small shift and plenty of people turn 18 every day.
White Dude for Harris here. I am sad face
After Donald Trump called every stripe of Latino, rapists and murderers, publicly, often and loudly, More Latinos voted for Donald Trump in this past election than have ever voted for any Republican candidate in any American election ever. Spin it any way you like.
I used to joke that America is a terrible place, full of narcisists, liars, and assholes.
Trump isn’t the cause of this. He’s just exposed how much those jokes are based on reality, and are no longer jokes.
He’s brought to the forefront our worst qualities, and confirmed the fact that no matter how much progress America has made, we’re all still just a bunch of racists and assholes. And this time it’s not a joke. It’s confirmed.
It appears that’s what won him the election. Yes turnout was down, but the demo percentages from 2020 to 2024 are not that much different outside of Latino voters.
And I must ask? How did Trump pull this off? And would Kamala have won without the Latino rightward shift?
Donald Trump doubled (+100%) the black vote he received in 2020. Across the board minorities saw change in putting Trump back in the big seat, as apposed to the disaster he will bring to them, and their families. People went through the pandemic, only to be hit with what’s felt like the largest peacetime inflation, which was not handled by the Biden administration. Normal people don’t care about economic numbers when their paying 30-50% more for milk, eggs, bread, and rent. When faced with more of the same with no real enumerated plan to get better, and back patting, they voted for different, come what may. You know which minority group didn’t break right, Jews (+5% 3.5% being the margin of error).
Biden handled Trump’s inflation expertly though. Everyone in 2021 said we would go through a recession, and we got a soft landing instead. And groceries are not 30% more expensive. They are around 15% above 2019 prices, not even that far out from historical inflation rates.
Trump won because of economic gaslighting and you and half the people on the internet still repeat these lies.
Trump gained 2% of black men, and lost 2% of black women. He made virtually no gains with black voters.
He gained literally 1% of them. I don’t know where this narrative of trump making massive gains with black people is coming from. All the data suggest at best, a very small gain from 2020 compared to the enormous gains he received with Latinos.
Is 2% of black men equal to 2% of black women in raw numbers?
Because it’s easy to lie to the half informed with statistics.
True
“which was not handled by the Biden administration”
This is just plainly false. The Biden administration handled the global inflation crisis better than any other G7 country in the world. Not only did we have the lowest rate of inflation across the G7 countries, ours ended sooner than any of them as well.
It appears that’s what won him the election
There’s hundreds of “what if” imagined scenario’s that would end up with a different result.
People keep claiming this without any context. He said a subset of those who enter illegally are the worst Mexico can throw at us. He never claimed all Latinos. This is hyperbole on repeat, and the left wonders why the right ignores everything they say about Trump.
It’s basically frustration based propaganda at this point. Don’t know if you recognize it.
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” - Dementia Felon trump
I guess it’s OK what he said because, hey, they aren’t all bad…
Kamala Harris lost cause she’s female. And didn’t
liepromise (that much) to voters. And had the richest 0.5% of US voters against her. This is cause the oldest wannabe-democracy of the world lost his state long ago.White people voting for the right is the problem. Like how can we go on here and blame Latinos for shifting when such a high percentage of white people voted for him? Especially when you factor in the population size and not just % left or right.
I am ashamed of my peers.
Less white people voted for trump in 24 though. The Latino bit is concerning because Democrats believed they had a demographic inevitability, and that appears to not be the case.
It shouldn’t be concerning, it should be enlightening.
But it won’t be. Not for the party leadership.
Over the past 40 years they’ve gone from being the champion of blue collar and union workers nationwide, and being able to take those votes for granted…to having the rust belt become the biggest swing region in the country (which their opponent swept this month). Did they take this as a wake up call and do more for the blue collar voters to win their loyalty back?
Nah, they just blame them and talk down to them, and tell them they’re too stupid to know what’s best for them.
In that same time frame, they were seen as abandoning the blue collar worker to court the minority vote, talking their efforts at helping factory workers and turning them toward helping minorities in race and gender. While they were actually doing this they did indeed appear to gain that loyalty at the ballot box. Of course once they had it, they felt no need to keep up the good work for these people and have slowly become a party who does nothing for anyone, and runs on a platform of essentially admitting they do nothing, but that their inaction is better than the other side, so they should still be owed votes.
Once again, this isn’t working out for them, and once again, rather than take it as a rejection of what they’re doing, no…it’s the voters who are wrong.
I despise the GOP as much as any reasonable person, and I firmly believe that many of their voters won’t like what they voted for once they start to get it…but there’s no denying that the GOP has a message, goals, and demonstrable progress toward them. And to counter that…the Democrats have…“I think things are good and I wouldn’t change anything. You should vote for me because I’m not MAGA aligned, and if you don’t, it’s your fault not mine.”
Arrogance is off-putting, and it appears it’s going to take at least a half century for the Democrats to figure that out.
Yeah, only around 2-3% of the white voters switching Dem would make up for the extra Latinos voting for Trump. On the other hand, blaming the voter instead of candidate is missing the point.
To actually answer the post title you’d have to go state by state in the swing states to see if she could flip enough of them to make a difference. I suspect the bigger problem is still lack of turnout rather than any specific demographic.
Don’t forget all the people who voted for Biden in 2020 and didn’t fucking vote in 2024
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
15 million of them. That is a staggering number.
It’s also not an accurate number. The official count for Biden in 2020 was about 81.3 million (found many places online, but the official one is a good choice) and the unofficial count for Harris by AP so far is about 74.3 million. That’s about 7 million, which is less than half of what you claimed.
People have got to stop just posting straight up false information. If you don’t know, don’t post.
It would be more appropriate to say outdated. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2024/11/13/20-million-votes-election-harris-trump-fact-check/76136743007/ As of November 6th 16 million less votes than the year before had been counted.
No, if you said it a week ago it would be outdated. The fact that you’re still saying it is what makes it false. As you point it out new information is available. You’re just using old information still.
By comparison if I wrote a book in the 1600s about the medical necessity of leaching, that would be outdated today. If I wrote a book about the medical necessity of leaching in 2024 that would just be false.
I didn’t write a book or claim to be an authority on the subject. I stated what I remember on a subject I had read an article about 2 weeks ago.
But they still use leeches! Because your hypothetical example is imperfect I’m afraid I’ll have to dismiss everything you said and go with the old, inaccurate numbers. What a shame.
We both know the reasonable way to interpret your post, and the way nearly everybody would interpret it, is that that’s the current or final count. It’s also outdated to say 74 million fewer people voted for Harris, but at one point, that was in fact the count. But it’s more than outdated - it’s misleading to the point of being factually inaccurate to any observer.
I can’t believe instead of being like “oh shit, I made a mistake, my bad, I better think for a second about this in the future” you’re going to try to justify it. Whatever, that’s social media at this point I guess. Surely I’m not the problem, says everybody feeding misinformation in a giant circle. I thought Lemmy might be better, but it’s just not. Thank you for convincing me to finally give all social media up.
I didn’t know it was outdated at the time. I don’t constantly check and double things I read in passing to see if it has been updated. I am not a professional in the field.
Man you’re arguing about something so insignificant.
As a data analyst, the way the two graphs are setup terribly. There’s really not enough information to come up with any conclusions from the charts.
Also, first, there’s not enough information from the graphs to determine the situation since it’s only by percentages and not population. Second, our system is based on the winners of each state and used by the electoral votes. So overall popular vote isn’t going to determine who got elected, even if the chart showed all blue for all demographics.
It is also crazy that I lived long enough to see more Latino men vote Republican than white women 😂
Do some rough math say there are 200,000,000 total eligible voters.
2024 would have 12,000,000 male Latino voters 2020 would have 10,000,000 based on the 3rd column
Even if 100% went left to right at most you have a 12M shift.
That shift though in absolute numbers was far less than that though based on the R/D split, so not a tremendous impact over all.
There was just a lot less people showing up over all for any reason.
what’s the source of the ‘final numbers’ because they do not agree with what i have been able to find? and how can they be final when no one knows how any individual voted?
The Dems would have won if they ran a campaign relevant to the struggling and apprehensive. They didn’t. They lost.
Every other Lemmy comment section told me that it was Anti-Genocide college students who cost Kamala the election /s
It’s never any 1 constituency to blame.
But maybe a campaign telling independents and centrists that liberals are doing genocide while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,” was a really bad idea.
I’m not sure you guys bear the moral responsibility for Kamala losing, but I do think there is an argument to make for bearing moral responsibility to helping ensure more death happened.
As this chart makes pretty clear, white men are to blame.
Fair enough. I’ll admit that my comment was just a snide remark to those in a community that will jump at the first opportunity to deflect blame onto anyone but refuse to entertain a second of introspection.
while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,”
They did.
These constituents are voters who helped deliver Biden the presidency in 2020, and who now feel deeply hurt and betrayed by the President’s decisions to continue funding war crimes and the mass killing of Palestinians. Arab American, Muslim American, and young voters, as well as people of conscience in Michigan and nationwide, are critical to the strength of the base. We cannot afford to have this base permanently disillusioned or alienated in November. The Uncommitted Movement Emphasis mine.
Pro-Palestine kids on campuses were incredibly fearful of a Trump reelection and ran their campaigns to influence the Democratic at least partially out of that fear.
Pro-Palestine knew the Dems were far more likely to win if they promised to fund domestic concerns rather than what has been widely accepted to be a genocide. Feel free to criticize the ratio of anti-Dem:anti-Trump messaging all you like, but it’s afactual to say anti-Trump didn’t happen.
you’re getting downvoted as though you are lying. i saw people equivocating the uncommitted movement with pro-Trump on here since February. and now people are turning around and saying “no we didn’t do that that didn’t happen.”
like maybe it wasn’t you but it happened. be fking for real.
Yeah, as much as people on this site love to love to shit on conservatives for being MAGA-brained, most of the Democratic rank-and-file acolytes mirror the same behavior. History will absolve my, and many others’ comments but it’ll be too late to fix problems that could have been avoided. Ultimately, people in general want to be in their echo chambers and have their opinions supported
More than one thing can be true; one things can be a subset of another.
“Are we out of touch with our core voters?”
“No, it’s the voters who are wrong”.
This will probably be how the Democrats regroup after the loss.
