Summary
Trump plans to lift the Biden administration’s freeze on supplying 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and reverse sanctions against Israeli settlers.
I was under the impression that:
According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), the US accounted for 69% of Israel’s imports of major conventional arms between 2019 and 2023.
And that:
In May 2024, the US confirmed it had paused a single consignment of 2,000lb and 500lb bombs over concerns Israel was going ahead with a major ground operation in the southern Gaza city of Rafah. But Biden immediately faced a backlash from Republicans in Washington and from Netanyahu who appeared to compare it to an “arms embargo”. Biden has since partially lifted the suspension and not repeated it.
From Biden plans to send $8bn arms shipment to Israel - BBC - 4 January 2025
hey pro-Palestinian lemmings! where y’all at?
this is why you wouldn’t vote for Harris, right? when does he stop the killing again?
#when does it stop??
Harris would have done the same thing
No one said Trump would stop it. We said that Biden/Harris shouldn’t be enabling it.
And that made centrists very, very angry.
When does STAR voting start in your state blue conservative?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
When would the killing stop under biden (or harris who was happy to continue his policies)? Pausing one fucking shipment isn’t the amazing stand for life that you think it is. Sure though, blame it all on Palestine and not the democrats refusing to listen to voters (on many issues, not just this one) during a fucking election. I’m sure if the other pro-genocide candidate got in, we’d all be living in fucking paradise.
Well, for one, Harris wouldn’t have had people doing Nazi salutes on stage at her inauguration… But surely that’s unrelated.
No but she would have had people like Liz Cheney on stage with her, who are just the somewhat more polite precursor to nazis and harbor the same essential bigotry just more disguised in the language of the ruling class.
I would put forward the argument that Democrat voters are obsessed with appearances and rhetoric, and completely ignore policy that contradicts the ideals they think of themselves as having. You criticize Elon Musk doing Nazi symbolism, great. Count how many comments you’ve posted about that, and then give me the ratio of those to the number of comments you posted criticizing Biden for sending ~30 billion dollars of arms to a genocide. Because, at the end of the day, the biggest problem with Nazism was that it resulted in genocide. You might remember from school that genocide is LITERALLY THE WORST THING EVER BESIDES COMPLETE NUCLEAR ANNIHILATION OF THE PLANET.
I’d like to see a minimum of 1:100 on those comments. I get the feeling it’s less.
the killing stopped under Biden now.
the killing stopped under Harris now.
#when will the killing stop under Trump?
tell us! when?? we were told it would stop of Harris lost!
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is he president now? no? then it stopped under his control. the. fucking. end.
Trump in now, where’s the outrage, homeboy?
where’s the vitrol?
I don’t think you’ve got it in you to call him out on this. you’ve commented twice already and not once have you blamed Trump for restoring access to 2000 pound bombs.
and you won’t because you’re too weak to admit you were wrong. oh I remember you mother fucker…don’t even think I don’t remember you.
The sheer idiocy of these people honestly. “You helped Trump get elected because you didn’t complain about Harris enough.” FFS.
Biden, not once, ever, stated “full throated support for genocide”.
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At no point did Biden ever, once, tell Israel to continue killing Palestinians. The support was provided for defense from Iran, full stop.
October 25th, 2023: https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-criticizes-extremist-settlers-west-bank-2023-10-25/
August 1st, 2024:
https://www.jns.org/biden-reaffirms-support-for-israeli-self-defense-against-iran-in-call-with-netanyahu/November 26th, 2024:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-says-israel-has-right-to-self-defense-if-hezbollah-or-anyone-else-breaks-deal/What Israel chose to do with that support is on Israel, not Biden.
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What Israel chose to do with that support is on Israel, not Biden.
This is an awfully subjective political opinion to be moderating on.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
Are you really trying to claim that USA supported israel without knowing they would have leveled gaza?
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thanks for pointing that out hark.
remind me again… who’s giving them the 2000 pound bombs?
Spoiler Alert: Biden gave them over FOURTEEN THOUSAND 2000lb bombs.
spoiler alert: Trump is just getting started, its literally his second full day on the job.
If you can ignore what the Biden presidency has done for the last two years, why can’t you ignore what Trump hasn’t done?
Got a little TDS or is the BlueMAGA brainrot claiming you?
Nobody told you the killing would stop if Trump won. The minority of people in the U.S. who have a serious problem with genocide (enough to push them to action) mostly expressed extreme disillusionment at a political system where genocide has become acceptable enough to vote for across a broad majority of the population, and an unwillingness to support anyone responsible.
Your logic of “one genocide supporter would be worse than the other” is not compelling to anyone who’s thought about it for more than a few minutes.
I hope your path of reasoning works out, but I fear Trump would even allow Israel to throw nuclear weapons at Palestine… just for shits and giggles of his fan base to see if Israel really would.
They will drive Israel to the limit of atrocious crimes they allow … and use this to prosper antisemitic sentiment everywhere else. That’s my prognosis, let’s see who is closer to the truth.
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I didn’t vote for Trump. how is it my fault?
you want to pass blame how about you look in a mirror.
I can’t take anyone seriously that praises Russia and wants to nuke new york.
let alone having such a vile comment history for an account that’s less than an hour old.
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I think of the millions of “pro-Palestinian lemmings”, there were all of like five that said Trump would help. Everyone else looked soberly at the bipartisan support for genocide, which you seem unwilling to acknowledge.
I think the tally at this point is about 30 billion dollars worth of arms sent to “Israel” since Oct '23. 99% of that under Biden. Breaking domestic and international law in doing so. That is the largest foreign benefactor of the U.S., a fundamentally apartheid state engaged in genocide for 77 years, more brutally and unashamedly than ever before since '23. Again, this is violating the Leahy Law, U.S. domestic prohibitions on the commission or complicity in genocide, the UN Genocide Convention, likely the Geneva Conventions, and other international law. I would love for someone with your stance to explain why Biden engaged in this, because I think you’re just floundering trying to describe this situation without that key piece of information.
Hope that helps. Not sure why you are looking to excuse complicity in genocide by drawing a D/R division where there really is not one. IMO what you’re doing in posting this is extremely immoral and I urge you to reconsider your views.
P.S.:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28
WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war’s start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
As someone who’s actually been following the individual arm shipments, the implication that there is any difference is literally insane. Biden was shoveling coal into the genocide engine as fast as humanly possible.
Non American here. Both your parties are genocide and apartheid supporters. Simple as that.
Yea, one of the two is more than the other. But you got to come to terms with the fact that your country’s bipartisan effect in the region is kinda evil.
Lol, down vote all you like. I’m just telling the truth.
You do realize the United States didn’t start that war. They’ve done a lot to stabilize the region and they have tried to solve the issue both before and after the war.
You try and negotiate a deal between Israel and Palestine it’s not an easy task.
I never said they started the war. I said they support genocide and apartheid (and I should have added occupation). Which they do. You can argue all you like whether their reasons for doing it are good or bad, but the simple fact of the matter is that in a bipartisan way they support Apartheid Israel and its policies for genocide and occupation. That’s just factual.
I was taking aim at the evil influence to the region. The Americans and Israeli didn’t start the war. They have been working to build ties and alliances to promote regional stability. There are Iranian proxy groups that are destabilizing the region, these people are to blame for the war and destabilizing the region. You cannot support these groups.
I understand people get hurt in war but negotiations with these groups is going terribly. They have insane demands and are completely delusional. You would never accept a terrorist group doing an attack on your country without repercussions.
Malaka, I’m Greek. Better ask what I’d do if my country was occupied, like the Israelis occupy Palestine. My ancestors did worse to the Ottomans after 400 years of occupation and subjugation than what Hamas did to the Israelis after 80.
We understand what occupation means and what it does to a people. Same reason why the Irish support the Palestinians. And we understand that the “stability” you talk of reeks of Nakba, Apartheid, Occupation and Genocide.
Edit: toned down the chest thumping
I’m curious what you suggest the US should do to rectify your criticisms? Do you advocate for the US to take a completely hands-off approach, withdrawing all presence and funding in the area?
The US should listen to Daniel Levy, former negotiator for Israel under Ehud Barak. Look for good interviews and talks online.
Ok what would you do if your country was occupied like Palestine? Would you continue to fight Isreal and risk starting another war knowing full well every single war has been lost catastrophically?
By calling it “starting a war” (which is a lie) and insisting that it has never gone well, you are implying that they should lie down and let Israel genocide them. Because that’s how that goes.
This is not a theoretical question for a Greek person. Here is what we would do:
What would you do if your country was occupied?
But even that ultimately is besides the point, because we are looking at the whole thing from the outside. For a more sober look, see my responses to LengAways below.
You do realize that we supplied their weapons?!
I do not think blame for the wars sits with the person who sold the weapons. There are plenty of people selling bombs. Sell Israel no bombs and they go somewhere else, restrict weapons sales and you keep them as an ally but limit their capability.
Fucking cope.
How could it be any other way?
Your truth isn’t THE truth buddy
Disprove me. Point me official policies enacted by one of the two US parties that materially opposed Israeli Apartheid and the genocide of Palestinians since Oslo. To make sure I don’t move the goalposts by claiming you cherry pick occasional bleeps, make a strong argument by showing me a consistent trend.
EDIT: added “since Oslo” because we need some start time.
EDIT2: Here’s what ChatGPT has to say about this. It is obviously not the arbiter of truth, but I guess this is common enough knowledge that it has made to the training of LLMs. Not a proof, but a baseline to beat:
Since the Oslo Accords in 1993, both major U.S. political parties—the Democrats and the Republicans—have predominantly supported Israel, often refraining from officially opposing its policies toward Palestinians. While individual politicians within these parties have occasionally criticized Israeli actions, a consistent, party-wide trend of enacting official policies that materially oppose what some describe as Israeli apartheid or the genocide of Palestinians is not evident.
Democratic Party:
Historically, the Democratic Party has maintained strong support for Israel. However, in recent years, a progressive faction within the party has voiced concerns over Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. Notably, members of “The Squad,” including Representatives Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, have condemned Israeli policies. For instance, in October 2023, Tlaib accused Israel of committing genocide, stating, “President Biden, not all America is with you on this one, and you need to wake up and understand. We are literally watching people commit genocide.”
Despite these individual statements, the broader Democratic Party has not adopted official policies that consistently oppose Israeli actions. The party’s platform continues to support a two-state solution without explicitly condemning Israel’s practices. While some Democrats have urged the administration to take a firmer stance, such as the January 2024 letter from 60 Democratic Congressmembers urging Secretary of State Antony Blinken to condemn the forced displacement of Palestinians, these actions represent internal party debates rather than an official, unified policy shift.
Republican Party:
The Republican Party has traditionally exhibited unwavering support for Israel. Under President Donald Trump’s administration, this support intensified, with actions such as recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and moving the U.S. embassy there. The 2024 Republican Party platform reaffirmed the party’s stance to “stand with Israel” and called for the deportation of “pro-Hamas radicals,” indicating a continued strong alliance. WIKIPEDIA
While there have been isolated critiques—such as Trump’s personal criticisms of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—these do not reflect a broader party policy opposing Israeli actions toward Palestinians. Overall, the Republican Party has not enacted official policies that materially oppose Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.
Conclusion:
In summary, neither the Democratic nor the Republican Party has demonstrated a consistent trend of enacting official policies that materially oppose Israel’s actions toward Palestinians since the Oslo Accords. While individual members within these parties have expressed dissenting views, these have not translated into official party-wide policies or actions.
Ugh. Fuck chat gpt. It’s hallucinating and not a legitimate source.
That being said the uniparty supports capitalism, imperialism, and the unsinkable aircraft carrier known as Israel.
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They are actually right
Yea, one of the two is more than the other.
Not even.
Everyone here agrees with you, dawg… We just understand our country’s political system enough to know which was the correct choice to mitigate that evil.
People made the wrong choice.
You know how we say that Israel is going to continue with apartheid and colonization even if Netanyahu is voted out? And that focusing too much on Netanyahu is sometimes a red herring because Israeli Apartheid is structural and a long term strategic goal of the Israeli establishment? Like, sure Netanyahu accelerates the process and does it shamelessly and publicly, but it’s not as if the process had not been in full swing by both center-left and center-right governments before him, who massively expanded settlements and entrenched the occupation and settlements.
Same logic applies for the US support of Israeli Apartheid. Your system moves faster and more overtly when controlled by your fascist Right. But I’m not going to pretend that your non-fascist Center is not basically moving in the same direction.
Just because your political system puts a gun to your heads every four years, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to buy into the same blackmail. (EDIT: we have other blackmails foisted on us by our own assholes thank you very much.)
Just because your political system puts a gun to your heads every four years, doesn’t mean the rest of us have to buy into the same blackmail.
Yeah but unfortunately for you, you do. Or even worse, you have no say whatsoever.
Grumble grumble. Stupid political realists. Grumble grumble.
I’m here but I’m not United Statesian so I can’t vote in your elections (even though US foreign influence is so aggressive it feels like I should have a say).
Oh no, I’ve upset some MAGA weirdos. Gonna lose sleep over that.
Palestinian here, not in the US. So Harris would have done genocide but without more 2000 pound bombs. Trump does it with them.
Your voters couldn’t decide against genocide, they could only decide with which weapons it will be continued. You guys have a problem.
Edit: greetings to the Lemmy Hasbara division. Responses are kinda wild, didn’t expect this. I should post more here.
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you seem pretty mu ha mad about what they said for not being a Muslim…
so…what’s being Palestinian got to do with your message other than showing your opinion is biased?
also, thanks for giving your broad opinion of a nuanced political system you have little understanding of. Feels good to hear someone blame me for the deaths of people just by doing the only thing I can do.
maybe next time you try to make someone feel like shit you should probably blame them for something they actually did instead of pulling bullshit out of your imagination because it sounds edgy.
Just scrolling through the comments here, people’s takes vary from bad to good, but everyone’s comment is only as long as the text they wrote. Then you jam this huge, not really relevant meme into discussion of an actual life or death issue for millions of people, which is just playing off of a pun on the name “John Goodman”. And your comment isn’t any better. You make a bunch of really off-base, unsubstantiated attacks on the guy you’re replying to. You don’t really seem to understand why they even brought up being Palestinian. You ignore the 100% legitimate criticism that you voted for someone complicit in genocide, brushing it off as “the only thing you could do” (it wasn’t). Then you accuse them of trying to sound “edgy”.
Buddy, your comment is bleeding “trying to sound edgy”. What is this meme doing here? Where is your sense of responsibility or shame? You are joking about a genocide.
Nothing like having third party resources blocked by default.
Another asshole to the blocklist. Oh what do you know, another lemmy.world fascist.
Being biased against Zionists is a good thing.
“Bias” makes it sound like there isn’t a completely impartial case to be made against them. Like the most meticulously documented genocide in human history.
Hey to any Palestinians out there I promise I will never let losers like the above person rest in peace.
thanks person without much to live for.
I’m sure the imaginary people you were talking to would be happy! You can finally dedicate your life to something that can truly help them in their time of need.
how many Palestinians do to plan to save with your brave acts?
Biden already sent 14,000 of those bombs so you’re wrong. Both candidates are pro genocide.
I was hopeful about the peace deal with the Muslim countries signing on but as usual our politicians flood everything with shit so no one knows that’s up or down.
Does anyone decide against genocide when it suits them? There’s some irony in both Palestine and Israel supporters whining to the Democrats about not opposing the respective genocides hard enough while ignoring their Hamas and Netanyahu doing it to the other side. Take the log out of your own eye before complaining about the speck in the other’s.
On a rational level, we all need to oppose killing of civilians and children. But man, it’s hard to convince people to care when the people you’re trying to save won’t help themselves.
This is great!
Because now we can detonate those bombs in Israel.
Yet the memes, jokes and everything that gets through to the non politics junkies was about Elon’s salute.
Almost like it was a perfect distraction for people to get enraged by while ignoring the serious issues.
Good thing all those “Genocide Joe” voters abstained from the election
Something bad could have happened to those Palestinians
Good job
I can’t find the will to make a leopards/faces joke about this. This is exactly what we told people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because of “gEnOcIdE jOe” bullshit.
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide. They failed, but they tried. Now we’ve got an absolute monster in charge who is going to outright empower the genocide.
If you voted for Trump, voted for a third party, or refused to vote… FUCK YOU. You own this.
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide.
Okay I don’t have the energy to refute to this stuff anymore, so lemme just ask: Do you seriously believe the president of the united states, the single largest benefactor of Israeli regional hegemony, doesn’t have the ability to enforce its own laws and prevent violations of international law by its protectorate?
Well, thankfully the alternative is going to stop Israel on it’s tracks and… Oh wait a minute…
It’s a much, much more complicated situation than you’re presenting. Biden was trying to thread the needle between “deny Israel weaponry” (end result: Opportunistic invasion by Israel’s neighbors) and “give Netanyahu all the weapons he wants” (end result: what we’re about to see with these gigantic, city-block-destroying bombs).
How would you do it?
Oh, it’s the “but what about the Jews” argument. You do realize Israel’s whole problem with its neighbors is their treatment of Palestinians, right? If Israel can’t stop its apartheid and make real.peace with their neighbors then they deserve to get invaded. Their apartheid state isn’t worth more than the at least 200 thousand Palestinians who died in Israel’s genocide. I’ll also point out that Israel has the most advanced military in the region, so the idea that Israel can’t resist an invasion is wrong.
Do you think Israel should be destroyed?
Edit: Interesting. No one is willing to say “no.”
Here’s the thing: What Joe Biden tried (and yes, failed, because Netanyahu is a corrupt madman) to do was simultaneously support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself, and do what he could to minimize damage to Gaza.
Now we have a “president” who will gleefully help Netanyahu destroy Gaza entirely and take over the land. You’ve gone from someone whose friendship to Palestine was tepid to someone who actively wants it destroyed.
This isn’t an upgrade.
What if I told you that all states built on nationalism are illegitimate.
Yeah, why not? Again, apartheid states don’t deserve to exist. Also I’ll note that this is not the same as “should Israelis be all mercilessly slaughtered”, that’s a different question with a different answer.
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Do you think Israel should be destroyed?
You types always phrase it “destroyed”. What does that mean? Should the state dissolve? Yes. Should it be bombed with a nuke? No. Should there be equality in the region? Yes. Radical take I know.
Do you understand the difference between an imaginary social structure ending, and millions of people being killed? Like, if a company goes bankrupt and dissolves, does that mean all its employees are killed, in your mind? Or are we just mindlessly going with the racist imperial narrative of “if we don’t genocide them they’ll genocide us the first chance they get”?
do was simultaneously support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself, and do what he could to minimize damage to Gaza.
Here’s the actual thing. This was the PR line ran by the Biden administration as they violated domestic and international law to send billions of dollars in arms to a genocide. There is no legal “right to exist” under international law, for any state. There is a “right to self-defense” but that right doesn’t exist in the context of an illegal military occupation (the occupation of Palestine) - the “right” in that scenario is the right of the occupied people to resist. That’s not a hypothetical “right”, that’s an enshrined legal right under international law. The same way that if Canada or Russia or whoever invaded the U.S. and stationed troops for 57 years, we’d have a right to take up arms against them. The equivalent in that situation, for the “right” that you think exists, would be the “right” of the invading Canadians to mass murder American civilians based on the (unsubstantiated) rationale that militants are hiding underneath churches, hospitals, elementary schools, water treatment plants, etc. Also known as “no holds barred genocide”.
The Biden administration knows this. Biden knows it, Blinken knows it, Matt Miller knows it, Kamala Harris knows it, Vedant Patel knows it, Linda Thomas Greenfield knows it. This is a case of “they are incentivized to forget it”. Also known as “the lowest depths of human evil”. The fact that YOU haven’t noticed this is the entire problem - you, and the other Democrats, and the Republicans all. To us, you are hardly different - the Republicans just a little more stupid.
Biden was trying not to die in office, he was clearly incapable of tying his shoe laces, let alone stop any conflict.
You do not live in democracy, go cry about how trump ruined your life while oligarchs are controlling your whole state.
How can you be so blind?
what we’re about to see with these gigantic, city-block-destroying bombs
About to see?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
You can tell these people aren’t paying ANY attention. Still talking about “Trump is going to destroy Gaza”. Gaza is fucking destroyed. It’s a pile of smoldering concrete and asbestos rubble with the bones of women and children in splinters beneath it.
Its not complicated at all when multiple international human rights organizations credibly found Isreal was committing war crimes and the US already has a law preventing the sale of arms to nation’s credibly accused of war crimes. Biden was the cheif executive all he had to do was execute a law that was already on the books. Neither the SC nor Congress would have had any say.
Stop carrying water for genocide financiers who had every opportunity to do something different.
That’s not an answer, and I’m not “carrying water for genocide financiers.” I never once excused or denied Israel’s behavior. Netanyahu responded to a horrendous terrorist attack by turning the dials on “horrendous” and “terror” up to 11. He’s a monster and a war criminal and should spend the rest of his life in prison.
Now then, how would you do it? Put yourself in the president’s shoes. You need to come up with a solution that allows Israel to continue to exist and not be destroyed by, say, Iran… AND allows the Palestinians to survive. Cut off all weapons, goodbye Israel. Give Israel a blank check, goodbye Palestine. What do you try to do?
I gave you the solution, it is an answer. Follow the law as written, Israel is not above the law. You keep jumping through hoops to say we can’t follow the law and then claim you don’t carry water for them? Fuck all the way out of here with that cognitive dissonance, you’re practically hasbara.
This is exactly what we told people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because of “gEnOcIdE jOe” bullshit.
What that things would continue on as they have been for well over a year now? Where is the “leopards ate my face” aspect of this?
Biden made real efforts to prevent the Israeli government from committing genocide. They failed, but they tried.
What efforts were those? Strongly worded phone calls and “red lines” that were constantly crossed and redrawn, while simultaneously standing alone in blocking UN and NATO resolutions against Israel?
who is going to outright empower the genocide.
Can you explain how a genocide that we’ve been actively supporting for the past 15 months is now being “empowered?”
The article is literally stating that Trump is giving the green light to giving Israel more powerful bombs to genocide with, and also to give Israeli West Bank occupiers their access to US financial resources again.
He’s approving one shipment (Israel has been using 2000 pound bombs since October 7th and I haven’t heard anything about them stopping after that shipment was paused) and lifting sanctions on the four West Bank settlers Biden had sanctioned. This will only hurt Palestinians about as much as the original moves by Biden had helped them, which is to say: not at all.
From Oct 7 2023 to Jun 28 2024 (the date of the reuters article that is being posted) we had shipped thousands of those bombs. We paused a shipment in May of 2024 (stated in that reuters articale), and here’s an article from July of 2024 saying we still had not shipped any of them
And I’ve found nothing indicating we have sent any more 2k pound bombs since May of 2024. So if we had, please provide a source reporting it.
Perhaps we should try to agree on what empowering means, though:
- Something that is empowering makes you more confident and makes you feel that you are in control of your life
- to give official authority or legal power to
Trump’s actions are empowering the genocide because they are clearly supportive of both Israel’s bombing and occupation.
And I’ve found nothing indicating we have sent any more 2k pound bombs since May of 2024. So if we had, please provide a source reporting it.
Apparently there haven’t been any shipments since may, so my bad there.
Trump’s actions are empowering the genocide because they are clearly supportive of both Israel’s bombing and occupation.
I mean the problem is that this doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. You either do things or you don’t, things like empowering or slamming or come to Jesus moments are all rhetoric and rhetoric only matters when it starts affecting the real world. We’ll have to see if the ceasefire holds; if it does then it makes sense (in US foreign policy terms, I of course hate it) for Trump to continue shipments, if not then we can start talking about leopards eating faces. The settler sanctions had zero effect on the real world, so they don’t matter no matter how “empowering” lifting them may be.
The occupiers are the state of Israel. Biden had some very limited sanctions against specific extremists who weren’t also Americans, but no one in their right mind thought that was somehow stopping the occupation.
The occupiers are the state of Israel.
Yes, that what I said, though I can see how the ordering of my words could be ambiguous.
Biden had some very limited sanctions
And Trump is removing them. Therefor Trump is, in an objective and literal sense, empowering those people subjected to those sanctions by removing sanctions that Biden had put in place.
Those sanctions didn’t actually do anything about the occupation. It’d be like sanctioning some random ultra-Z Russians rather than their leadership or institutions and acting like it’s curbing the occupation of Crimea. A few specific Israelis couldn’t bank with the United States, but they can just route through American-Israelis in their ranks instead. Them specifically banking wasn’t in any way important to the occupation.
Lifting the sanctions by Trump is bad, but more on the symbolism than the impact.
Trump could have said hey this sanction isn’t working, we need to strengthen it so that it does. But he instead said get rid of this sanction entirely. I get that you’re saying “well it didn’t really work and they had access to it anyway.” I do. But by your own account they had to go through extra steps to get it and now they don’t. That’s empowering. Even if just in the psychological sense that they now get to think “hey Trump is doing things to make it easier for me to keep occupying this land.” They now know that Trump is aiding them, so that gives them a greater sense of purpose and power to continue. And now they get more of the bigger bombs with which to do it.
This is just such a minimal impact it’s hard to get worked up about it. It’s wrong and it’s bad and it’s worse, but we have not lost a force for good in losing Bidenism. Bidenism with respect to Israel was evil. And Trump is eviler, but on this issue, there’s really not much worse it can get. On many many other issues Trump is incomparably worse, but no one should pretend Biden was in any way a bulwark against genocide and occupation.
This very story demonstrates it. In a raft of reversing Biden policies, the only things he could do for Israel was unrestricting a single bomb and removing some token sanctions. That’s the sum of Biden’s efforts to restrain Israel.
We’ve already been giving them these bombs.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Your link is published in June of 2024 and states:
The Biden administration has paused one shipment of the 2,000-pound bomb, citing concern over the impact it could have in densely populated areas in Gaza, but U.S. officials insist that all other arms deliveries continue as normal. One 2,000-pound bomb can rip through thick concrete and metal, creating a wide blast radius.
Here’s a link from July of 2024
The U.S. in May paused a shipment of 2,000-pound and 500-pound bombs due to concern over the impact they could have in Gaza
I can’t find anything saying we resumed shipment of 2,000 pound bombs in the remainder of 2024. So it seems to be true Trump is now reversing Biden’s [since May 2024] policy of withholding these bombs.
It also states that Biden sent over ten thousand 2,000lb bombs before pausing that single shipment. I don’t understand why you’re trying to split hairs here as if it makes any difference (irrespective of the 500lb bombs continuing to be shipped, the $20 billion shipment of fighter jets, bombs, and missles in August, and the $8 billion weapons shipment he approved two weeks ago).
I don’t understand why you’re trying to split hairs here as if it makes any difference
Because this comment thread is about whether Trump’s actions are empowering the Israelis. It’s apparent to me that most people are using a different definition of empowering than I am.
- to give official authority or legal power to
- Something that is empowering makes you more confident and makes you feel that you are in control of your life
Even though these actions don’t have a large practical impact on their military capability, or financial means, it does send the message that Trump isn’t interested in placing even performative restraint on Israel. Thus, he is empowering them to do even more.
Well if we’re splitting hairs, how does the ceasefire fall into your definition of empowering the Israelis? That’s not something we’ve seen at any point in the past 15 months of slaughter.
I don’t think Trump really deserves credit for it, but Biden surely doesn’t. Not only did he allow them to cross red line after red line while supplying them with money and weapons the entire time, but he also blocked numerous UN resolutions on the matter while standing alone with Israel.
Can you explain how a genocide that we’ve been actively supporting for the past 15 months is now being “empowered?”
It’s right there in the headline. We’re sending 2,000lb bombs that weren’t being sent before.
Well that’s what happens when you rely on headlines and literal two sentence long “articles” for information because that’s completely false. We’ve been sending them thousands of these bombs along with the jets to use them for quite some time now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Biden did not try. Palestinians were doomed either way
Okay, so even if Biden didn’t try what good did voting for Trump or not voting at all due for our country and or Israel?
What? Biden didn’t try. You don’t have to vote for trump or not vote at all, to understand that.
This article is literally about one of Biden’s efforts to rein in the violence. He did try. Now go ahead and excuse Trump freeing up 2,000-pound bombs for Israel, and how that’s better for Palestine than it would be if Harris had won. Good luck.
“We tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” energy. It’s almost if Palestine was doomed either way. Heck of a lot cheaper to not send bombs to Israel
Lying about Biden trying “nothing” doesn’t make it OK that you carried water for Trump.
Now that is a lie, anyone who thinks Biden actually tried to stop the genocide is either not paying attention or flat out lying. Not everyone who opposes aiding an active genocide carried water for trump. Believe it or not you can be vocal about being against trump and genocide
This is a very simple trolley problem. Do nothing and the Trump train runs over a lot more people. Vote fore Biden and a lot less folks will day. Arguing for the Trump trolley (which you are doing) is foolish.
The setup is correct, but calling the problem “very simple” just means you don’t understand the trolley problem.
If you think that what I said was in support of trump, you are part of the reason trump is in office again. There is no trolley; there be only genocide or we’re sorry still genocide
He also bypassed congress twice to give billions of aid to Israel. Nobody is excusing trump freeing 2000 pound of bomb to Israel
He did not “try.” This is just a weak attempt at whitewashing recent history.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
Genocide Joe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war
The previous government allowed this genocide to happen, the current government is making plans to keep it going. Perhaps you will now understand what people have in mind when they say that both parties are the same and to look for alternatives.
Trump appears to have pushed Netanyahu to agree to a ceasefire, which Biden failed to do. I wouldn’t be surprised if the delivery of these bombs was part of the backroom deal between Trump and Netanyahu which led to the ceasefire.
I don’t know what will happen after this ceasefire expires, but until then it’s a little early for those who criticized Biden’s policy on Israel to criticize Trump’s.
No it fucking isn’t, what with Israel set to receive 2,000 pound bombs that can level a city block.
I love how now you’re arguing that supplying weapons to Israel is a grave sin. How do you feel about supplying 500 pound bombs that can simply level a building?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the delivery of these bombs was part of the backroom deal between Trump and Netanyahu which led to the ceasefire.
I can’t deny that when seeing the news and timing my first thought was of Reagan and the Iran hostage crisis.
I don’t think this is the same thing unless Trump told Netanyahu to delay the ceasefire, and I haven’t heard anyone claim that he did.
Hilarious how the comments are blaming the group that wants to abstain or be central in their belief when the play was already set in place regardless of the outcome. Class war yet we bite at each other.
After Genocide Joe and Holocaust Harris, we have Destroying Donnie. Too bad #destroyingdonnie won’t be amplified by Xitter like the previous two was, to try to sway voters.
Delivered without landing?
To the Muslim MAGA voters, that’s 2000 lbs, multiples, of Fuck Around and Find Out.
As it turns out, there are about 2,000 pounds of difference between Republicans and Democrats.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28
WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - The Biden administration has sent to Israel large numbers of munitions, including more than 10,000 highly destructive 2,000-pound bombs and thousands of Hellfire missiles, since the start of the war in Gaza, said two U.S. officials briefed on an updated list of weapons shipments.
Between the war’s start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Hope that helps!
But still 2,000 fewer than if Kamala had won.
What?
Not to beat the dead horse but… Those who said “I won’t vote Democratic because Gaza” were either lying or delusional.
In 2028 there won’t be any Gaza, what will be the next line?
That’s just self-indugent tribalist scapegoating using an argument which is circular and self-disproving.
- If there were too few people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to affect the vote, which is would justify the decision of the Democrat leadership to not do anything meaningful to agree with the demands of those voters (Biden pausing his own decision of sending 2000lb bombs is very much a “I’m saving you from myself” moment), then you can’t really blame those few people for the Democrat loss since there were not enought of them to make a difference and something else made the Democracts lose, so the fault is in the strategy followed by the Democrat leadership on other subjects.
- If on the other hand there were so many people who cared about the Israeli Genocide enough for it to result in the Democrats losing the vote, why did the Democrat candidates not go after that vote? Again, the blame is down to the choices of the Democrat leadership: it’s always easier to change what a handfull of people do than to change what millions do, so for the handful of people in the Democrat Party leadership to change their position with regards to supporting Israeli in its Genocide would be far more logical to expect in that scenario than for such a large slice of the electorate - millions of voters - to change their position instead. Even if one thinks “our leader’s position is more important than that of millions of people so it’s the millions who have to change their positions, not our leader” (a bootlicker’s mindset, BTW), it’s still incredibly stupid to go with “we’re going to convince millions to change their position rather than just that one guy” as a strategy so the blame still rests with those who chose to go with it.
All I see here and now is people making a pseudo-“argument” that is entirelly reliant on the axiom that “the boss is always right” to manage to somehow blame millions for something which the “the boss” could have (per the part of that very same pseudo-“argument” which claims it was the people who were against the Israeli Genocide that sawyed the vote) easilly avoided by just meaningufully changing his position on just that one subject. That presumption that the leaders are blameless and it’s the peons who are to blame for not being willing to follow the leaders no mater what they were doing, is a 100% subservient mindset.
If you’re going to assign blame for Trump, look at the handful of people in the Democrat Party who chose to do things in such a way that the results was that millions of their own electorate chose not to vote for them, thus delivering the election to Trump.
Sorry, didn’t pass the second line because you failed to understand what I say.
I’m not saying Biden is good for Gaza. I’m saying if your concern is Gaza, Trump is not better. So for a meaningless virtue signaling, everything else is worse.
And the gold medal for mental gymnastics goes to…
I really tried to tell them, but the propaganda is insane.
I think most of them were state sponsored psyops or really shit trolls. I don’t think most actual real marginally rational thinking people would have such a dumb af take.
Trump being elected is enough proof for me to realize most people in our country have dumb af takes.
You would think, and yet they’re still around parrotting the same narrative. Hell, there’s at least one in the comments of this very post.
Assuming that anyone with a contrary opinion, no matter how ridiculous you might feel it is, is being disingenuous is an easy way to underestimate them.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t “parrot”. Someone can be capable of thorough independent thought and be unwilling to support politicians complicit in/actively committing genocide. Crazy, I know.
As if you need any additional evidence how .ml and their spinoffs are funded
^ I remember this dude was on the last post like this too. I think that “they’ve been real quiet since the election” post in PoliticalMemes that got me banned from the sub.
I don’t think most Americans care enough about Gaza for it to affect their vote (or for it to cause them to choose not to vote). Some, certainly, but not enough to have made a difference. This was about groceries being expensive.
The numbers seem to tell a different story, actually. Mind you, this is one poll and it’s among people who did not vote giving a reason for not voting after having not voted, but the numbers aren’t insignificant
It was a combined effort to suppress voter turnout. Provide every possible reason to tap into that bernie bro “the democrats deserve to lose because they betrayed me” mindset.
TBH the Dems deserved to lose, but Trump deserved to lose much, much, much, much harder.
The problem being that means too many people don’t show up, and only the fanatics get a say. And they have a lot more than us.
That’s exactly my point. People should go and vote against fascism, but apparently they won’t.
And Harris wasn’t inspiring enough to get them out to vote for her instead of just against him.
Your point seemed to be “She sucks, maybe not as much as the other guy, but still sucks”, which is not exactly inspiring in and of itself. maybe you should do less to try and discredit the currently most viable defense we have against people like Trump.
You have serious problems if you needs additional inspiration beyond literal fascism.
That fake “Bernie bro” mindset, you mean. No genuine Bernie bro failed to vote (D) in the general, by definition, because that’s what Bernie himself recommended.
They’ve already made inroads into the West Bank, Syria, and Lebanon, right?
One way to end a genocide is to 100% the ethnic cleansing.
Yeah, but when do they ever stop at just one group? When the Nazis started running low on Jews to scapegoat, they expanded their operation to include gays, gypsies, handicapped…etc.
This is the tragic truth.
The most frustrating part about it is that withholding votes was framed as a principled position. And I’m sorry, but that’s asinine. How many of those people who declared that they wouldn’t vote for the democratic ticket because of their action/inaction on Gaza actually did anything more than posting rants on social media? How many raised funds for aid? How many organized rallies, protests, or educational outreach? How many even so much as contacted their representatives?
It is either naivety or complacency to believe that national policy should change just because you and your friends sent around some memes. And it is callous indifference to base your vote on a single issue and then claim that you’re inhabiting the moral high ground.
If you yell into the void, you shouldn’t expect a response. And if you believe in an issue, either take action or acknowledge that it would be staggeringly arrogant to expect other people to put in work that you yourself won’t do.
The American non-Republican voters were played like a fiddle. Long live Tik Tok who fed the indignation and enabled Trump’s victory!
Removed by mod
People who still believe you have to choice either between red and blue are delusional.
“it can’t get worse tho…”
See this thread for why D’s will never learn, and do not deserve to govern. Still blaming everyone they failed to motivate.
“You should have accepted the continuation of the slow D genocide. Now you’ll get the extra double R genocide, and it’s all your fault!”
This is why progressives abstained; to let Trump destroy the corporate-whore duopoly and charade of “democracy” in America. It wasn’t under some fantasy that R’s would be better for Gaza, America, or the planet. It was because the D’s are captured by the corporate oligarchy — thus will never offer meaningful change — and spent the last few decades helping the R’s sow the seeds for fascism, building the surveillance state and MIC, destroying the financial and housing security of the working class, etc.
Eventually some victims will stop accepting the abuse, and lash out at their abusers; even if it means much worse abuse or death.
Eventually some victims will stop accepting the abuse, and lash out at their abusers; even if it means much worse abuse or death.
Of course, if we wait for that to happen, we’ll already be well under the bootheel.
If you need a fully fledged fascist autocracy to happen before you get off your ass and do something… you’ve already failed.
Well it’s a good thing the genocide was stopped. Because it would be awfully embarrassing to grandstand on that single issue and have no result while simultaneously making the lives of thousands of others worse.
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I said either side resulted in genocide, and the R’s would be worse, but I’m guessing you are reactionary without reading my comment… Nice strawman though.
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I’m not American, and I would’ve voted for the lesser of two evils if I were, so you’re preaching to the choir. I’m just a messenger.
But do continue complaining about the left and proving that you’ve learned nothing, because that’s worked out well for you so far. The proof is in the fascist dictatorship!
I’m not American, and I would’ve voted for the lesser of two evils if I were, so you’re preaching to the choir. I’m just a messenger.
That’s fair - comment retracted.
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The hero has returned to save no one and sell more bombs.
Seeing the replies (the ones defending the democrats) I am wondering how you American manage to breathe without dying?
I am honestly convinced that most of you are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.
