Summary
Former vice presidential nominee Tim Walz criticized Trump for economic chaos while taking personal responsibility for the situation during an MSNBC interview.
“We wouldn’t be in this mess if we’d have won the election — and we didn’t,” Walz told Chris Hayes. He called Trump the “worst possible business executive” and praised the Wall Street Journal’s editorial criticizing Trump’s tariff war.
Walz emphasized Democrats must offer something better, not just criticize Trump. Recently, he acknowledged a leadership void in the Democratic Party and admitted spending too much time combatting Trump’s false claims about immigrants.
I don’t blame Harris or Walz. I don’t even blame Biden, the senile old fool that he so clearly is.
I blame the Americans for fucking up the most outrageously obvious binary choice in history.
Has there ever been an election so obvious? Even during Trump vs Clinton one could almost be forgiven for giving Trump the benefit of the doubt as a “political outsider”, but by 2024 we knew exactly who this fucking guy was… The fact that people today are acting surprised and outraged about all the stuff that’s been happening during Trump’s first 1.5 months is only further proof that Americans are perhaps the dumbest amnesiacs to infest the Earth.
Literally all we had to do was vote against Trump’s particular brand of fascism.
But Americans are the type of people who fail a single question true or false quiz because they forgot to write their name at the top of the page, and we deserve to suffer the consequences of our collective stupidity over and over until it is bred out of us, or until our society falls. The American people allowed this to happen–and not just Trump, but everything bad that has happened over the course of American history.
The good think about the 2024 US election was that the choice was obvious to everyone who paid the littlest attention; the bad thing was that Americans chose the wrong candidate anyway.
Nah it’s actually their fault. The fact that they lost when it was “the most outrageously obvious binary choice in history” shows how hard they fucked a lay-up.
Nah, it’s the Democratic parties fault. They could have prevented this. It’s their job to do so!
Biden, the senile old fool that he so clearly is
That shit made me chuckle because of how true it is. Also, the way that you worded that is so perfect. Beautifully put.
My favourite part is how he made gains in (virtually?) all segments. It seems the economy was their number one concern too. Imagine thinking the current president was going to make the economy/their financial situation better…
Like at some point you just need to call out the stupid.
How dare you!? America is a DEMOCRACY, and that means we can’t be blamed for how we vote. If I vote for Trump, I’m not at fault for what happens. In fact, it’s Harris’s fault. She should have pandered to me more. I can blame her, and only one person can be at fault for something, so I’m guilt free.
You liberals are always trying to guilt trip us leftists for letting fascists take over the government!
I’ll go ahead and blame Biden for you
I blame Reagan
I like picking random bad things that have happened in America an tieing it back to Regan. Usually it isn’t even hard.
Fucking finally. A Democrat we we can respect, because they don’t rely on their role inthe damage.
Instead of frittering away the last few months of his presidential term, Biden should have just resigned and allowed Harris to take over his role. She could have pivoted way to the left without having to undermine Biden’s agenda and that would have really sent a clearer message to the democratic base.
She could have pivoted way to the left
But she wouldn’t have.
If voting patterns of America ever showed something consistently, it is the fact that shifting to the left in any sense never works. You can sometimes entice the public with enough vigor so they don’t focus on your politics, but outside of very rare cases, shifting to the right consistently brings some votes, and shifting to the left consistently brings loses.
And no amount of social media posts was able to change it weirdly enough.
It might have something to do with consistent anti-voting narrative of a lot of the vocal leftists, coupled with their bafflement that they consistently don’t get a desired outcome.If voting patterns of America ever showed something consistently, it is the fact that shifting to the left in any sense never works.
Sounds like a great excuse to only move right.
do you have ANY other solutions to the problem? Maybe idk, actually voting?
I did vote. For harris.
Your party responds to all sensory input by moving right and punching left. You assume anyone who has a problem with that must be a nonvoter.
good job, you actually did something! Why are you here then? Go yell at your representatives or something, nobody cares.
Your party responds to all sensory input by moving right and punching left.
bold assumption.
You assume anyone who has a problem with that must be a nonvoter.
statistically, it’s very likely to be true, the primary demographic among the progressive left is younger people, the youth, the primary voting block is older people, the elderly. Statistically, this is bound to overlap in such a way that most people out here yapping online about stupid political shit like this, are not voting.
And the “I assume you are younger than me and therefore wrong” boomer dismissal is here again.
Counterpoint: Obama.
It might have something to do with consistent anti-voting narrative of a lot of the vocal leftists, coupled with their bafflement that they consistently don’t get a desired outcome.
i think its primarily age demographics, and the fact that the voter base is stupid, i.e. votes for the wrong people.
That’s ridiculous. Kamala appealed right and she got fewer votes. We abstained and let Trump win to show her that.
In 2028, Obama is gonna have to appeal to the left in order to win against Trump.
honestly that may have helped strategically, i don’t think biden was “out the door” by that point, but it very well may have been a good look and given some needed press time to harris.
No, we’d be “GAmBlIng wItH wOrLd waR THree!”
All the democrats had to do was field a white male opponent against Trump who can be charming and give good speeches. Instead they put up a biracial woman, who the fuck amongst the democrats thought that America was ready for a biracial woman president, like did they do zero pooling to figure out what the people wanted, aren’t politicians supposed to know the pulse of the nation, it’s literally their job to serve the citizens of the country. They should have made Bernie or even Walz the presidential candidate and Kamal could have been the VP
The “she lost because she’s a woman of color” talking point is just an excuse to shut out AOC in 2028.
You think voters can’t be sexist or racist?
I think they can be both. They’re called republicans and appealing to them is why harris lost.
I don’t think they’re as prevalent as democrats are making them out to be. And I think that they’re overstating the problem as an excuse to shut out AOC.
Yup.
All the democrats had to do was field a white male opponent against Trump who can be charming and give good speeches. Instead they put up a biracial woman
she was literally the previous VP, about the best pick you’re going to get, especially from a functional party, as much as people will tell you the biden admin didn’t do shit, it’s one of the more productive admins, in a long time.
I think spurning the Arab American vote in swing states, to secure the Israeli vote in a solid blue state had a lot to do with it…
Props to him for taking ownership of it. It means a lot even if it isn’t fully his fault.
“I think Americans have had it,” Walz explained. ”… Look, I own this. We wouldn’t be in this mess if we’d have won the election ― and we didn’t.”
Good to see someone from the campaign acknowledge “getting votes” was the campaign’s entire job, and losing the election is the fault of the campaign.
I hope Walz runs in a competitive primary and gets the nomination.
But if they try to just hand a baton off, we’re gonna see the same result.
NO! NO! NO!
NOOOOOOO!
Do not nominate Tim Walz you stupid assholes. He was the blue republican addon to make the progressive Harris campaign appeal to centrists and republicans. He wanted to “expand israel’s borders”. He was elected in a district that ran straight red like the blood of the innocence for a long time before he won it, and then he lost that district during the election.
He was the blue republican addon to make the progressive Harris campaign appeal to centrists and republicans.
The what Harris campaign?
We have free public school lunches for all our kids here in Minnesota because of Governor Walz. How the fuck is that “blue republican”?
He might be further left than any republican but hes as far right as a Democrat can be. As I have said before I will vote for him, but I gurantee you millions of leftists won’t.
Are you from the mirror universe?
Good. Maybe we can finally convince some people around here.
Unlikely.
Its like pod save cracked open all their heads, took a crap, and sealed them all back up.
Nope, because the majority of the people that are in these comments in this post and in several others that are acknowledging that the Democrats fucked up will start punching left again in about three years. And they will repeat their failures from 2016 2020 2024.
Primaries are only competitive if the people show up to them.
Primaries are only competitive if we actually have them
I feel like if Biden had stuck with something like, “I’m going to be one term and let some younger folks lead, we need some folks who are going to see the consequences of their actions running the show, not 70 and 80 year olds.” and had an actual primary, Harris wouldn’t have been the nominee and said nominee would have won. There’s a few other things that could have helped, but the short campaign was definitely a huge stumbling block.
Yes indeed, but also primaries can help to attract voters. I think the Sanders campaigns, though he didn’t win, made young people more likely to vote Democrat.
I’ve seen people argue Biden and Jamie Harrison had a following out, and that Biden never really planned to run again, he just wanted to spoil the primary and push a very unpopular Harris onto the ticket.
We did, in fact, have primaries. There were like 9 choices for the Democratic nominee in my state. Better challengers could have run but didn’t. Yes I know the DNC using funding to “encourage” or “discourage” but that doesn’t change the fact that challengers could have, and did, run in the primaries.
Nobody voted for Harris in the 2024 Democratic primary and she was still the nominee, picked by the head nerds at the DNC
That is partially true. We the voters did not vote for Harris, but the Biden delegates who the primary voters sent to the convention did.
Yeah, and Biden was old. Even before his obvious deterioration, there was always a chance he wouldn’t make it through the term and Kamala would have to step up. If you voted for Biden in the primaries and were NOT ready for a potential future of a Harris presidency, I don’t know what you were thinking.
Like I said: The head nerds at the DNC picked her.
yes, but those head nerds were elected by the primary voters.
Count the number of states where “others” were not on the ballot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Ballot_access
Your proof that we didn’t have primaries is to link a source that shows that not only did 48 states have a primary (I wasn’t aware that Florida and Delaware did not, so TIL, and thank you for that), but also that all of them had at least one challenger on the ballot? Show me who qualified to be on the primary ballot in their state, showed up to register for it, and was denied.
I’m not who posted it, but that list is either wrong or varies by county. My state is listed with a couple other candidates in various colors including green, but my actual primary ballot was Biden or nobody. (Or Trump or nobody). I just recycled it.
That sucks. Was there anybody who met the requirements and tried to register but was rejected?
Primaries are kind of a moot point for the incumbent if they want to run again.
Trump in 2020 had 2,549 delegates. The next closest was Bill Weld with 1.
Biden in 2024 had 3,905 delegates. The next closest was uncommitted with 37.
Obama in 2012 had 3,514 delegates. The next closest there was also uncommitted, with 72.
Bush in 2004 had a clean delegate sweep of 2,509.Yep. But it’s generally (just learned that Florida and Delaware Democratic parties cancelled theirs in 2024) not because the state parties just reject any other names to be put on the primary ballot. But there’s still a lot of people saying there was no primary or that the DNC wouldn’t let any challengers run. Just generally misplaced anger that they didn’t have better Presidential candidates to vote for when the reality is that better people just chose not to run. Has there ever been a primary challenger beat the incumbent president for the nomination and then win the election?
Has there ever been a primary challenger beat the incumbent president for the nomination and then win the election?
There’d have to be a primary challenger who beat the incumbent first, and I don’t think that one has happened. I know Ted Kennedy got relatively close (Well, closer then the others I’ve mentioned, still blown out 1900 to 1200 delegates) to knocking out Carter on the Dem side, other then that, Reagan and Ford in 1976 was decided 1,121 to 1078 for Ford.
finally! I hate when peope are always blaming trump or maga or republicans for this shit when its been the democrats every time. reagans deregulation and tax cuts, bush juniors war on terror, trumps total idiocy. ALL DEMOCRATS! We need to stop fighting the republicans and work with them against our common enemy.
Republicans ARE our common enemy, at this point… Democrats have been an “enemy of my enemy” scenario for decades now, but they are LITERALLY the lesser of two evils. Howsabout we get rid of this BS two-party system that’s allowed the Overton window to go so far right? Maybe start there, not "work with cuntservatives.
news to me. Everything I see is lets fight the current administration by bitching about the democrats not quite doing enough in the past. Its only by rectifying the past that we can solve the future. do not be concerned about the present.
I partly agree with “It’s only by rectifying the past that we can solve the future”… but you cannot do that while being unconcerned with the present.
Democrats have been an “enemy of my enemy” scenario for decades now
Unconvincingly.
True… but that rolls off the tongue better than, “The not-quite-friendly business partner of my country’s toxic monsters is my friend.”
Nope. This is on Biden. It’s his fault Harris/Walz were put into an impossible situation.
That senile old fuck was supposed to be a one-term president. If they’d spent 4 years planning for 2024 instead of sitting around with their thumbs up their asses maybe they could have run a winning campaign.
But no, Joe was too proud or stupid or both to stick to that plan. This election was lost the instant he doddered his way on to the debate stage on 6/27/24.
It’s on Biden and Garland for not throwing Trump in prison the second his term ended.
Amen. 4 years to build a case? January 6th, spend 6-12 months and file charges. What the fuck were they doing for 4 years?
Running out the clock.
To hell with his January 6th temper tantrum, he should be in the fucking Hague for his handling of Covid.
The Oligarchy will never convict one of their own. For four years, I said it was the dog and pony show. And in the end, nothing will happen to Trump. Here we are.
Exactly, and it’s the third time we’ve been betrayed like this.
Not going after the Bush administration.
Not going after the subprime mortgage architects.
Not going after Trump.
Three times, they’ve had the easiest of layups for public approval of all time and they’ve consistently fucked it up.
It’s not really a fuck up when they did it deliberately. Their priorities are in the wrong place because it’s an oligarchy.
Seeing liberal’s repeatedly stumble in stopping anyone to the right, but having the fangs come out the moment they need to protect themselves from the left really shows that it’s not failure, it’s refusal.
I see the same from the left though. Great criticism… of other leftists. Then defending authoritarian shitholes with dictators, like Russia. Makes no sense to me, it’s just tribalism.
That’s a false dichotomy. There are more political ideologies left of center than status quo liberalism and tankism. Most leftists are very much critical of Russia, because it’s an imperialist capitalist dictatorship.
I hope so! I mean the left should be united against Russia but that’s not what I’m seeing, sadly.
Are you comparing the political actions of the only ostensibly anti-fascist party in the US to the leftist infighting of posters online? Try organizing with leftists outside and you might be able to see the difference.
It’s kinda difficult to criticise those in power from the left when there aren’t any. Is there even 1 communist politician in th UK or america?
People, including us now, talk online and share their views. I’m sure the same would play out in person as it does online. Maybe luckily, some political ideologies seem to ban any criticism by banning anyone from their spaces who aren’t on board with their agenda. So that at least saves on talking to people who aren’t interested in talking to others, only pushing their propaganda.
I’d like to add:
Not going after the Confederate states
to this list
Wouldn’t that have been the Republicans at the time?
Or at least the second the supreme court said whatever the president does is legal as long as it’s an “official act”.
Walz emphasized Democrats must offer something better, not just criticize Trump.
Biden shares a lot of the responsibility, but Harris and Walz were running on fundamentally faulty assumptions.
A cascade of failures. Beyond Joe not man enough GTFO, the DNC once again anointed a letter instead of letting the public decide. yes, Joe should never have run for a second term. Given that he did, he should have dropped out sooner. Given that he didn’t, the DNC should have had an open convention rather than putting their thumbs on the scale in back room deals.
Tim is 100% right that we would not be in this mess if they had won, but when is the DNC going to stop trying to manipulate everything and lie to us about it? They are to blame as much as Repugnacans.
Because they and R are same team. I bet it’s like lawyers who viciously go after each other in court, them have golf and martinis on weekends.
Lots and lots of balls were dropped. Garland didn’t get Trump in jail when he could have. Biden didn’t stick to only one term. A democratic candidate wasn’t really elected when Biden stepped down (for the record, I think that Harris was more than qualified, but a lot of people were upset that she was just “chosen”). Harris didn’t try to stand out and be her own candidate - she mostly just stuck with the status quo and never disagreed with Biden. Etc etc etc.
Putting trump in jail would’ve made America look bad. Oh, the irony.
Warning bells started going off in my head the moment that the Democrats announced that Harris was going to be the candidate after Biden dropped out, not because I thought she was an unqualified candidate but because there was no time taken to search for other candidates. Maybe it was too close to the election to take the time to go through the rigamarole of all that but I think even a cursory effort to do so would have gone a long way towards making it feel like people’s opinions actually mattered. Biden dropping out was huge (at least to me) because it felt like an acknowledgement of the voters who had consistently felt like they were held hostage for their votes because the alternative was a fascist.
It doesn’t help either that they went on to repeatedly shoot themselves in the feet while chasing moderate Republican votes, getting other prominent Democrats to chastise certain classes of voters and breeding the same voter apathy that hurt them in 2016, and their refusal to acknowledge that what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide that we shouldn’t help Israel perpetrate.
Yeah, the moment I knew we were in trouble was when they publicized that video of Obama lecturing down to some black men about not supporting Harris enough. Whoever thought staging that was a good idea needs to retire from politics forever and go find a field to stand in.
that video was so based lmao. Not every day that you get to see obama yelling at people.
Idk about based. Imo, it was hella staged, and I found it real cringe.
It’s also the campaign money, only goes to Harris, and not anyone else. They are legally required to return all that fundraising to the donors if they use a different candidate
On your last point, I don’t think Dems could’ve done anything different. They’re clearly in Israel pockets and they can’t disobey their corporate overlords and run on a more progressive agenda. Only other option was to try hard to get the “centrists”. Incredibly disappointing as they would rather lose and go hard fascist rather than let their donors lose any money (how’s that stock market looking?).
Maybe it was too close to the election to take the time to go through the rigamarole of all that but I think even a cursory effort to do so would have gone a long way towards making it feel like people’s opinions actually mattered.
it was way too close for that, by the time you had found one, you would be weeks, if not one or two months prior to the election, with no VP, and only a candidate, you would’ve had to have started the primary at the time it normally does to pull that off, they took a gamble, and that gamble was that biden would ride it out, and im not really sure why they took that gamble, but they did, and they lost.
Garland never had any intention to prosecute trump
This is on anyone who was within arms reach of Trump in the last decade and didn’t take matters into their own hands.
Yeah a bunch of people want to make excuses for 90 million people who just… Didn’t think it was important who won.
Campaign was flawed but if people showed up to vote against fascism we wouldn’t be here. And there’s zero excuse for all 90 million of them to not show up.
Edit- well, Im reading your post in a different light but, yes that too.
If you didn’t notice, Democrats were aligning with fascism.
Funny, I noticed they were the only ones running campaigns with a legitimate change of winning against the fascists.
Talking about winning against fascism and actually doing something or not the same thing, they talk a big game and then end up capitulating to Republicans.
Winning elections is the only way to keep power from the hands of fascists that doesn’t involve extralegal actions.
Biden made an appropriate decision to back out. He should have done it much sooner. But I’m not sure I would characterize the failings of Harris/Walz as Biden’s fault. I don’t really feel that’s fair.
Harris’ main draw was that she didn’t want to do anything, which pissed off progressives. She was pro-establishment and pro-status quo. She didn’t need Biden’s help to not get votes… I have no love for Biden, but the truth is the truth.
But I’m not sure I would characterize the failings of Harris/Walz as Biden’s fault.
Inasmuch as they ran as a continuation of his policy, I’d say there’s some blame to be had.
So you’re saying that two adults chose to run an unpopular and non-working Biden “plan” which was proven to not work, and that’s also Bidens fault because two completely unrelated people decided to also use that plan?
Does your brain not work?
They used his blueprint. He bears some responsibility.
Removed by mod
If biden hadn’t been such a mildewy dishrag of a president, his VP might have won. Now insult me more since it’s all centrists do when people expect better of them.
And again this is about you hating Biden. Which is fine, hate him. But how long are you going to blame everything on him like a petulant child?
Next week when you stub your toe you’re going to blame him?
His Vice President chose to run for office. She chose the platform that she chose to run with. It wasn’t Joe Biden’s platform it wasn’t even loosely tangential to Joe Biden’s platform. But it’s his fault in your eyes because you feel that she stole his platform…
Go back and reread my anecdote about the police. You made it even more relevant.
They probably realised Harris wasn’t going to win due to the amount of prejudice and thought Biden had a better chance against trump (who they’d have guessed would have been axed after his loss and criminality, but it was a cult), but then they let Biden to abdicate because there was truth in the criticism of him and the media ran with it…
At that point who else could they run? It was bad planning, not accounting for Biden’s age/health and the cult of trump.
Also they should have given Bernie his shot. They didn’t want real change and it’s been forced on them anyway, but now to the detriment of all.
Harris made choices. She could have chosen not to adopt every single one of Bidens policies. What was biden going to do, fire her? If you look back at her presidential run she really struggled to articulate any policies back then too.
What was biden going to do, fire her
If the reports are true, yes that seems to be the case. I’m not really sure what would have happened, but she was absolutely threatened into defending Biden’s legacy.
The president cannot fire the vice president.
The best a president can do is lock the VP out of meetings. Bidens approval ratings were so low, being locked out of meetings would have cost her nothing. So exactly what reports are you quoting here, lets see them. I think you made that up.Bidens approval ratings were so low, being locked out of meetings would have cost her nothing.
Hell, if that happened and we assumed that anti-establishment sentiment is what got trump elected, maybe she could’ve capitalized on that to win the election as a “new” type of politician, one willing to go against the Democrat establishment whom literally everybody hates and dig up the potential dem voters who haven’t had hope for change since Obama. Of course, this is Kamala Harris we’re talking about, probably one of the last politicians that I’d expect to pull a move like that.
DNCs fault for blocking Bernie
i cant imagine its likely he would’ve even won in the first place, literally just schizophrenia politics.
Sure as opposed to the totally stable and sane politics of today🙄. The establishment neoliberals aren’t popular . It’s just a fact
but people keep voting for them???
Why does every dumbass on this site keep saying “BUT THEY AREN’T POPULAR” only to see them get literally 40-50% of the votes. If they truly weren’t popular, they would get like 30% of the vote.
But i guess your entire counter argument is probably “WELL BUT HOW DID TRUMP WIN THEN?” anti-incumbency. Plain and simple.
deleted by creator
Meanwhile Democrats are lining up Rham Emanuel and Gavin Newsom to run. Lol
And Gavin Newsom started a podcast and is cozying up to crazy right wingers.
No one lines up anyone. Stop spreading agitprop.
I imagine it’ll be a pretty large primary cohort this season. If you want to run, feel free to run, too. There is no cabal.
It is prohibitively expensive to run for president. It’s only for the super rich now because for some reason we conflate money with skill even though they are unrelated.
It’s because of the Citizens United ruling.
This has been demonstrably untrue for the past two Democratic primaries, and the people in charge of the DNC largely haven’t changed, but keep huffing that copium.
If you want to run, feel free to run,
Peak lib delusion. This disconnect from reality is a big part of why y’all lose.
It’s gonna be newsom, and they’ve already chosen for us.
I hope I’m wrong.
deleted by creator
Dear fucking God not Newsom. That dude is a bigger turd than Hillary.
I will not vote for him. I held my nose and voted for kamala but Newsome has the makings of all the people who “left the left”.
The voters deserve a lot of blame here.
You can lead a horse to water…
Any ADULT can easily see that politicians are going to be imperfect, and no single candidate is going to align 100% with your stance. Demanding that they do, or else you’ll vote for literally the worst possible option, or sit out, or vote a “protest” vote, all so that someone, somewhere will “learn” something is just fucking childish and stupid. And this will be continue to be true no matter how many times the Tone Police show up to admonish people about blaming voters. Sorry, not sorry: I blame the voters.
based and true, thank you.
Any ADULT can easily see that politicians are going to be imperfect
The best I can do is fall for blatant Russian propaganda and then get mad when someone calls me out on it.
It sure is convenient how all criticism comers from russians so you can ignore it.
Kind of like anyone that finds faults with other leftists is a “centrist”, right?
Don’t you have voters to blame for your party’s decades of complete incompetence?
You’ll have to try better than that comrade.
TRUE I LOVE TAKING UP ONE SIDED POSITIONS LIKE FUCK ISRAEL I HOPE EVERYONE IN THAT COUNTRY DIES A HORRIBLE AND PAINFUL DEATH
this is satire, hi hello, im doing political satire
You’re being mean to me! I hate you mean liberals! You’re always picking on leftists who just want to let fascists become president
Nobody demanded that Harris align 100% with their stance; they demanded that she not be an absolute pile of shit of a candidate. That distinction matters.
she was actually pretty ok? The one thing that was bad about her was the israel stance, which is like maybe 5% of the voter base that ACTUALLY cares about that enough.
So first a lot more than 5% of the Democrat voter base cares about Gaza. I won’t get into the weeds, but there.
The one thing that was bad about her was the israel stance,
No? She would’ve won at least two or three swing states if that was the case. Her economic policy (or lack thereof, more accurately) was horrible. She dedicated the final two months of her campaign almost exclusively to “Trump bad” rhetoric while not promising to do anything for her constituents. I mean this woman was asked what she’d do different from Biden economically and she said “nothing comes to mind”. Status quo politics just won’t cut it in this day and age.
So first a lot more than 5% of the Democrat voter base cares about Gaza. I won’t get into the weeds, but there.
i’m talking about the voter base that actually cares enough to influence their vote over it. I’m sure if you polled the public it;s like 90% or higher who care about it at all, like 40% support israel, 60% against israel, and like 5% of those is “fuck israel i hope it burns to the ground and that palestine re conglomerates into israel” type of people.
No? She would’ve won at least two or three swing states if that was the case. Her economic policy (or lack thereof, more accurately) was horrible.
“her economic policy was bad” bro, did you see ANYTHING that trump said? Literally an irrelevant argument. Especially now.
She dedicated the final two months of her campaign almost exclusively to “Trump bad” rhetoric while not promising to do anything for her constituents.
I remember her talking about a lot of things she and walz were going to do, that was like a pretty big deal. Was their entire plan, not all of it was great, but it existed, unlike trump.
I mean this woman was asked what she’d do different from Biden economically and she said “nothing comes to mind”. Status quo politics just won’t cut it in this day and age.
yeah and? Biden had pretty good economic policy? Aside from the whole covid thing, but you have no choice there, unless you want a global recession, more like a depression. Again, trumps economic policy has been an utter disaster in comparison.
i’m talking about the voter base that actually cares enough to influence their vote over it.
https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling
bro, did you see ANYTHING that trump said? Literally an irrelevant argument.
Don’t move the goalposts. Here’s what you said:
she was actually pretty ok? The one thing that was bad about her was the israel stance, which is like maybe 5% of the voter base that ACTUALLY cares about that enough.
We’re talking about Harris on her own merit, not about Trump.
I remember her talking about a lot of things she and walz were going to do, that was like a pretty big deal.
Like? Give me something specific she clearly said she would do for the working class and a link of her saying it in September or October.
yeah and? Biden had pretty good economic policy? Aside from the whole covid thing, but you have no choice there, unless you want a global recession, more like a depression.
He did well on the economic recovery front, but he or example didn’t go after price gouging. His economic policies were a step in the right direction, not an end state to campaign on.
Again, trumps economic policy has been an utter disaster in comparison.
Again, that is literally not what we’re talking about.
centrists think “second worst” means “good”.
in the context between shooting yourself in the head with a 12 gauge slug, and stubbing your toe really badly. I think most people would agree with me when i say that stubbing your toe is the best option. Comparatively, a good option.
Of course if you compare it to things like, randomly finding a billion check on the ground, nothing compares to that, but that’s an unreal comparison, you literally cannot base a reference point on them.
Sample Online sample of 604 voters fielded from December 20 to January 07, 2025. Margin of Error ±4.5%
thats uh, a really small sample size. Especially for a sample that’s supposed to consist of multiple swing states. Not to mention that organization is clearly either deeply embedded into the arabic culture, or arabic itself (didn’t look that hard) obviously that’s not an issue, we have things like AIPAC here in the US, it’s just, probably very biased. Which is why they exist in the first place. That’s kind of the whole point.
Don’t move the goalposts. Here’s what you said:
What’s the other available option? Voting for jill fucking stein? Who cares what i said, the facts are plainly evident, you have one really bad choice, and one decent choice.
We’re talking about Harris on her own merit, not about Trump.
and if we’re talking about her own merit specifically, i’d say she’s still a pretty competitive candidate, the voting numbers seem to agree with me on that one.
Like? Give me something specific she clearly said she would do for the working class and a link of her saying it in September or October.
she ran for a bunch of shit, notably the child tax credit, the housing crisis, the food crisis, corporate taxes, capital gains tax, there are a number of other things, those are the ones i can remember off the top of my head.
He did well on the economic recovery front, but he or example didn’t go after price gouging. His economic policies were a step in the right direction, not an end state to campaign on.
the price gouging one im not sure on, there was only really significant price gouging of medical equipment and consumables in the early pandemic months, which was quickly shut down, as it was deemed illegal, beyond that you’re talking about things like food, which struggle with inflation, and are also affected by things other than the economy, notably the avian flu for eggs. Consume electronics have gotten more expensive in some capacities, the GPU market specifically, but that’s obviously due to AI. That’s about it, everything else is probably going to be related to inflation.
Again, that is literally not what we’re talking about.
Who else are we comparing it to? Fucking god? IS the heavenly father himself going to come down and run our government for us? What’s the frame of reference we’re holding here?
thats uh, a really small sample size.
Short answer: Learn statistics. Slightly longer answer: 604 people is more than enough for a normal distribution to appear, so if the sample size was “really small” it’d be reflected in the margin of error.
Not to mention that organization is clearly either deeply embedded into the arabic culture, or arabic itself (didn’t look that hard) obviously that’s not an issue, we have things like AIPAC here in the US, it’s just, probably very biased.
Biased towards… Palestinians’ rights? The fuck are you talking about?
What’s the other available option? Voting for jill fucking stein? Who cares what i said, the facts are plainly evident, you have one really bad choice, and one decent choice.
Uh… If you don’t care to have a conversation then you should say so from the start. If you do care to have a conversation, then what you said quite obviously fucking matters. Also you ignored everything I said to claim Harris is a “decent” choice.
and if we’re talking about her own merit specifically, i’d say she’s still a pretty competitive candidate, the voting numbers seem to agree with me on that one.
What voting numbers? The ones where she lost all seven swing states? Also I quite distinctly remember a whole lot of “hold your nose and vote for her”, which isn’t what you say about a “pretty competitive” candidate.
she ran for a bunch of shit, notably the child tax credit, the housing crisis, the food crisis, corporate taxes, capital gains tax, there are a number of other things, those are the ones i can remember off the top of my head.
Quotes for those things from September or October?
the price gouging one im not sure on,
Again, the fuck are you talking about? Grocery price gouging during recessions is a widespread and documented phenomenon, and if you don’t understand that then you really are in no position to discuss the November election, because you don’t understand the people’s grievances that Harris failed to address.
What’s the frame of reference we’re holding here?
“Good” doesn’t need a frame of reference; it’s an absolute judgement. “Better” is a relative judgement that does require a frame if reference. Most people can judge whether something is good without being offered a specific frame of reference, and to most people a candidate that doesn’t even acknowledge a problem exists (again, “nothing comes to mind”) is not good.
I blame the voters.
It means you never have to listen or change in any way, so of course you do.
LOL, I am a voter. Are you under the impression that I have any direct influence over the Democratic Party? 🤣
LOL, I am a voter. Are you under the impression that I have any direct influence over the Democratic Party?
According to your comment, voters are to blame, not the infallible holy party. So good work electing trump. It’s all your fault.
says the guy, responding to the guy who literally voted for that fucking party.
Defeated Democratic candidate: accepts responsibility in the lightest possible way
Liberal fanboy: Noooo, it’s not your fault, it’s the children who were wrong!
I didn’t say Walz, Kamala, Biden or the Democratic Party in general have no blame.
Yeah, us voters are children, and we need politicians to baby us
I agree, I’m also happy that people like Walz seem to want to give people a better option, making a protest vote even less appealing.
Tim Walz explained it the other day at SXSW.
Politicians are like teachers. If it’s Tim Walz’s job to teach kids about geography, and then test them to check if he taught well, if the outcomes of that test show that half the class passes and half fails, then the blame for that is on the teacher. The teacher could have taught differently, teaching in different styles to adequately reach out to students where they’re at in life and according to their specific learning styles. He might teach the same topic 5-6 different ways to capture as many people as possible.
The Harris-Walz campaign didn’t do that. They had terrible messaging as soon as the DNC hit. When Harris brought Walz on, there was actual progressive momentum. But then Harris bent the knee to establishment Democrats, and they lost the election.
I will not believe that it’s the voters’ fault for the election outcome. If Democrats were sober enough to realize Trump’s threat and wanted to really fire people up, they would have may the necessary changes to do so.
Harris could have aligned with 99% of what I wanted, but that 1% was OK with genocide, and that should have been a red line for anyone.
So, the alternative was little d, because that’s so much better?
The alternative in every instance is always no Democrats. We already have a right wing party, we don’t need two.
There were two viable options only.
When your two options are both right wing reactionaries, there are not two options.
i want walz and aoc in 2028
we don’t blame you tim we love you ❤️
I already had some respect for Walz, and it has now grown by leaps and bounds. While much of the messaging from the democrats seems to contain some level of voter or constituent blaming, Walz is out there taking responsibility.
coming from someone who worked with Trump to fund the jackboots manhandling the oil pipeline protesters
Walz is a fucking tool just looking for upvotes
Gotta love those downvotes \s. Libs love capitalism/oil more than life/planet.
