I feel like fixing the current mess would require a pretty serious overhaul of the government but no one seems to be having that conversation.
The purpose is for previously comfortable people to get used to taking action to oppose fascism. It’s mostly a large visible Fuck You Trump party, but you meet people there. You got up, you broke your routine, you were in line at Michaels with other people who were also buying posterboard and markers. They’re in your community. You aren’t surrounded by them - they are surrounded by us. And, huh. There are more of us here then there are cops in town. Interesting.
At events, those previously comfy people make connections and when they say “i wish i was doing more” someone else can say “some of us are going to the home depot on monday to interfere with ICE.” or even just “there’s a dinner after this why don’t you come too?”
Then it feels less weird to get up and do something next week. There are plenty of people who will just have the fuck you party and not do anything else, but there are also plenty who will do more.
Its purpose is to create momentum. That’s how I see events like this. Most people don’t have a quick on switch for taking big actions. You practice things and talk about things first.
If you’re on bsky, @drlisacorrigan has a thread that discusses the theory behind events like this. It starts:
In social movement studies, we talk about how marches and protests expand the threshold of acceptable risk so that people take more and bigger social risks IN PUBLIC, EN MASSE. This is extremely important for the bourgeois white folks holding signs and building social rapport.
I think you have to be logged in to read her thread, but I believe what she says is the theory behind why nokings was created. On their page, you find a ton of other groups that are partnering - real world groups that do real things - and they also have weekly suggestions of actions to take.
So the demands of the protest, imo, are for comfortable people to get up, figure out who’s around them and with them, and take action or join one of the partnering organizations that fit their interests and skillset. Since the problem can’t be solved with one single action, like impeachment, there needs to be labor involved in every aspect.
Another demand, much catchier, is that we not have kings in the United States.
Impeach, remove, convict. Once that’s done, we can work on reversing the decades of economic squeezing we’ve allowed due to apathy or ignorance.
Trump weirdly admitted that Democrats were better at economics than Republicans were (and he was a Democrat before switching to a RINO).
If a bus driver is trying to drive off a cliff, the passengers can band together to stop it even if they haven’t all agreed on a preferred destination.
I’m not trying to be pessimistic or disparaging, but wasn’t the issue with the 2011 Occupy movement exactly that they couldn’t agree on a destination?
There was no issue. The goal of the occupy movement was to draw attention to the injustice in our system. The fact that they didn’t get anyone impeached doesn’t mean they failed at that.
That is a fair point, it was effective at opening up a lot of people’s eyes.
In that metaphor, though, the passengers have agreed to prevent the bus from driving off the cliff. From my experience with the No Kings protests, there isn’t an overarching demand other than “Maybe don’t be so terrible” and a general expression of displeasure.
To keep with the analogy: the goal is to step on the brake … aka apply the checks and balances supposedly built into the system and stop letting Trump just do whatever he wants without consequences.
Yeah, but in this case the passengers are committed to not laying a hand on the driver as he drives them off the cliff.
The passengers came together and joined forces at the back of the bus momentarily before returning to their seats. The bus driver understands now how many there are. This isn’t a race
Yeah, but if the bus driver has been calling all the passengers terrorists for a decade, has been saying he’s gonna kill us all, and keeps falling asleep while driving…
Wearing a funny costume and walking around the bus holding witty signs the driver will literally never see, might not be the best way to even get the bus to stop.
Like, you get that right?
It’s not Tinkerbell logic, we can’t all just clap our hands together and say “I don’t believe in kings” and they all fall down.
And I swear to 6lb 8oz baby Jesus if someone tries to tell me it’s “raising awareness and that’s most important”, I’m going to lose it, because obviously at some point awareness isn’t going to somehow stop the bus.
And I seriously doubt anyone is more aware today then they were a month ago.
Like, you all know MAGA is too scared to go into a city themselves, and the only news they listen to will never report what actually happened today.
For fucks sake, tell me there’s something I’m missing. Because otherwise it’s incredibly stressful that people think this will in anyway help. Because then you all aren’t actually going to help.
You’re not wrong—the protests in their current form aren’t going to achieve anything by themselves.
But adding some specific set of demands will accomplish even less: it will alienate supporters who don’t agree with all the demands, and it will allow Trump to claim to address the issues by cherry-picking and distorting the demands beyond recognition (see the Black Lives Matter protests a few years ago).
If we reach a critical point where mass protests can achieve some real, concrete good, it will be due to contingent circumstances that neither side was able to predict. But the contribution the current protests can make to that moment is to give everyone the confidence that the numbers are on their side, once a productive channel is found.
But adding some specific set of demands will accomplish even less: it will alienate supporters who don’t agree with all the demands
That’s “means testing”. A classic move from the wealthy (via neoliberals) to turn a movement against itself and delay action. And why I personally don’t like trying to unite nationwide protests only a central authority or allowing a small unelected group to control a movement. The wealthy are going to try and corrupt it, and their money makes that easy for them.
it will be due to contingent circumstances that neither side was able to predict.
It’s very easy to predict…
The only reason any protest ever has worked, or ever will work is the threat of violence…
We can spend all day dressing it up. But it’s telling our government we won’t stand for what it’s doing. The different flavors of protests, riots, and even coups are all the same threat of violence by citizens against their own government, it’s just how explicit that threat is and how polite the tone we say it in is.
I’m not saying that’s wrong. I’m not saying it’s something to celebrate either.
But people need to fucking understand it is what is, because it might be like that soon.
I ain’t reading past the first deranged paragraph, but happy for you/sorry that happened.
No problem.
If I had filled in all the gaps so the lowest denominator got it, it would have been 10x as long, and it’s already too long for you to read by your own admission.
There’s just no way I can communicate something like this to you in a way that you’d be able to understand. But my comments are often long, and I’ll never see any of your responses again to give you clarification on anything else now.
So you might want to just block me so you don’t keep getting confused in other threads.
What are the demands of the No Kings protests?
No kings.
No idea, but I wish the put this level of energy into ending the two party system.
Until the two party system is fixed America won’t get better
- It’s not a race.
- Lots of people are having that conversation.
I don’t speak for anyone but myself.
My demands are accountability first and foremost. Anyone who has played any part in enabling trump must face consequences. They need to be severe, if not it just happens again.
Every ICE agent, every GOP house and Senate member, all the cabinet, etc. I am not okay with playing politics over this. It’s black and white. You followed orders that enabled treason, you are treasonous. The least guilty among them should have a minimum of 5 years to serve.
Beyond that it’s a tax strategy that completely disables the possibility of any person having 100,000,000x the wealth of another person in the country. Like if you have $100M, literally all of the rest of your money can go to those worth less than $1.
Idk how bout some real antitrust?
Oh I know, no owning more than 1 parcel of land per county per person.
No corporate ownership of land.
C suite liability for corporate personhood or eliminate it.
Universal healthcare
Laws against predatory loan practices.
Dismantling of the Patriot act…
Total defunding of ice.
I’d say that’s about the bare minimum.
I feel like fixing the current mess would require a pretty serious overhaul of the government but no one seems to be having that conversation.
Obviously the act of protest alone won’t do a thing. It’s a method for the people to express themselves and show those that may have power to make changes that they have popular support. A prosecutor, legislator, judge, or president going out on a lonely limb not knowing if they have support of the people is a risky position to be in.
Believe it or not, all governments (more or less) rule by consent of the people.
